Kaiir Elam traded to Cowboys

[Royale with Cheese]

30 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea some of it is scheme obviously. Not sure all those linebackers are scheme fits here but then Joseph really wasn't naturally their type either. If I remember right he had the lower RAS score in the entire draft. And they spent a 5th on him. I remember on that year's draft video McDermott who has clearly never heard of him asking Joe Schoen "what does he do?" And Schoen being like an excited puppy "he plays inside, he plays outside, he can blitz, core special teams".

 

We found out in time what he could do. Sweet FA. 

 

What makes Gordon v Elam even more confusing to me was Gordon was clearly the better scheme fit on tape. I'd genuinely love Brandon Beane to sit me down and walk me through what they saw and why. If it was Kaiir vs nobody I see the ceiling potential of Kaiir and why that is inticing. But if it is Kaiir vs an athletic freak who fits your scheme and has better tape I don't see it. Maybe Gordon had a medical or an off field that never came out? That might be it I suppose.

 

I think they just saw the athletic potential in Elam and thought they could develop him.

 

Beane says all the time he wants football players.  But it does seem to me they value RAS over tape a lot.  

If you truly want football players, maybe lower the standard on some measurements...

[ddaryl]

here is what went wrong with Elam.

He showed a williingess to get better, he brought a notebook with lots of notes in it and was taking notes in the interview. This won over McD who figured he would be able to get him to that place with reps and Beane drafted him based on the input.

The notebook was a red flag in hindsight. What that showed is Elam doesn't learn by reps in practice at a high enough level for the pros. He has to learn and understand it and does not just react. When you put him on the field he had to think about everything he needed to be doing because he didn't master it by running reps, he was still thinking on the fileld and not reacting organically. This explains why he playing so far off of the WR's that had people complaining and rightfully so. I bet the farm when we had to play Elam the coaches told him to play back some cause they know he would eventually get burned for a big play and they wanted to lower the % that it would happen. Whether that was the right call or not its the reason why Elam did not work out.

[MrEpsYtown]

36 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea some of it is scheme obviously. Not sure all those linebackers are scheme fits here but then Joseph really wasn't naturally their type either. If I remember right he had the lower RAS score in the entire draft. And they spent a 5th on him. I remember on that year's draft video McDermott who has clearly never heard of him asking Joe Schoen "what does he do?" And Schoen being like an excited puppy "he plays inside, he plays outside, he can blitz, core special teams".

 

We found out in time what he could do. Sweet FA. 

 

What makes Gordon v Elam even more confusing to me was Gordon was clearly the better scheme fit on tape. I'd genuinely love Brandon Beane to sit me down and walk me through what they saw and why. If it was Kaiir vs nobody I see the ceiling potential of Kaiir and why that is inticing. But if it is Kaiir vs an athletic freak who fits your scheme and has better tape I don't see it. Maybe Gordon had a medical or an off field that never came out? That might be it I suppose.

 

My best guess is they saw Gordon as a nickel. But I agree. The film on McDuffie and Gordon...they both showed really good acumen in zone, they tackle and both turned into really good player IMO. 

[GunnerBill]

32 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think they just saw the athletic potential in Elam and thought they could develop him.

 

Beane says all the time he wants football players.  But it does seem to me they value RAS over tape a lot.  

If you truly want football players, maybe lower the standard on some measurements...

 

But that doesn't explain Elam over Gordon either.... Gordon had the higher RAS!

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But that doesn't explain Elam over Gordon either.... Gordon had the higher RAS!

 

Maybe it was the 40 time.  Tyreek was a Chief at the time.

[Fleezoid]

1 hour ago, ddaryl said:

here is what went wrong with Elam.

He showed a williingess to get better, he brought a notebook with lots of notes in it and was taking notes in the interview. This won over McD who figured he would be able to get him to that place with reps and Beane drafted him based on the input.

The notebook was a red flag in hindsight. What that showed is Elam doesn't learn by reps in practice at a high enough level for the pros. He has to learn and understand it and does not just react. When you put him on the field he had to think about everything he needed to be doing because he didn't master it by running reps, he was still thinking on the fileld and not reacting organically. This explains why he playing so far off of the WR's that had people complaining and rightfully so. I bet the farm when we had to play Elam the coaches told him to play back some cause they know he would eventually get burned for a big play and they wanted to lower the % that it would happen. Whether that was the right call or not its the reason why Elam did not work out.

 

To add to that, I don't think he sees the field that well. It's easier mentally to cover one guy in man coverage, than to survey the field in zone coverage and react to things as they unfold. It's very possible he'll be more successful in a different defensive scheme. 

[Mat68]

1 hour ago, ddaryl said:

here is what went wrong with Elam.

He showed a williingess to get better, he brought a notebook with lots of notes in it and was taking notes in the interview. This won over McD who figured he would be able to get him to that place with reps and Beane drafted him based on the input.

The notebook was a red flag in hindsight. What that showed is Elam doesn't learn by reps in practice at a high enough level for the pros. He has to learn and understand it and does not just react. When you put him on the field he had to think about everything he needed to be doing because he didn't master it by running reps, he was still thinking on the fileld and not reacting organically. This explains why he playing so far off of the WR's that had people complaining and rightfully so. I bet the farm when we had to play Elam the coaches told him to play back some cause they know he would eventually get burned for a big play and they wanted to lower the % that it would happen. Whether that was the right call or not its the reason why Elam did not work out.

I dont think that was a red flag.  The system and the player not fitting was.  The things that made him a first rd talent were things Buffalo didnt ask of him right away.  Elam was a developmental prospect at zone corner.  In a more man heavy scheme he likley plays better out the gate.  Now his confidence was shot and a change required.  Liking the kid, work ethic, and athlete doesnt mean he also fits your scheme.  Buffalo needs to find a guy with off coverage instincts with enough athleticism to play man.  The reverse is much harder to develop.   

[ddaryl]

11 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

I dont think that was a red flag.  The system and the player not fitting was.  The things that made him a first rd talent were things Buffalo didnt ask of him right away.  Elam was a developmental prospect at zone corner.  In a more man heavy scheme he likley plays better out the gate.  Now his confidence was shot and a change required.  Liking the kid, work ethic, and athlete doesnt mean he also fits your scheme.  Buffalo needs to find a guy with off coverage instincts with enough athleticism to play man.  The reverse is much harder to develop.   

I just don't think he processes stuff on field fast enough regardless of system. The red flag was the note book. How many times have you heard of a player bringing a notebook to show off their notes while taking notes in an interview. Elam was the 1st I have ever read about. He needed the notes to help him learn systems, but in the NFL you have to react and not think about what you are going to do

[Rock'em Sock'em]

The comp pick the Cowboys will now get instead of the Bills in two years mostly offsets the draft picks involved with the trade.  So Bills must be confident that they can find an equivalent player or better for the $2.7M that they would have paid Elam.  It's unfortunate the pick did not work out.

[Mat68]

17 minutes ago, Rock'em Sock'em said:

The comp pick the Cowboys will now get instead of the Bills in two years mostly offsets the draft picks involved with the trade.  So Bills must be confident that they can find an equivalent player or better for the $2.7M that they would have paid Elam.  It's unfortunate the pick did not work out.

Elam would have to play well to qualify into the comp formula.  Imo Buffalo would cut him if a trade wasnt found.  After the Chiefs game he wasn’t going to be on the field for the Bills again.  Something for him and the trade negates the dead cap if cut.  Avoid the late day 3 picks move up to middle day 3 if possible.  

[HappyDays]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

It's not though. We move from the Browns pick (1st pick of round 6) into the round 5 comp zone for Dallas's comp pick. It is four spots.

 

You're mistaken, we went from 204 to 170.

 

https://www.dallascowboys.com/news/2025-nfl-draft-cowboys-revised-selection-order-following-free-agency-trades-for-kaiir-elam-kenneth-murray

 

We still own the first pick of the 6th round.

 

https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart-Rich-Hill.asp

 

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I'd genuinely love Brandon Beane to sit me down and walk me through what they saw and why.

 

No joke it was probably that damn notebook. I genuinely believe that. This regime at times emphasizes the wrong things like character over talent. This was one of the draft rumors from that year on Kyler Gordon:

 

https://walterfootball.com/2022-NFL-Draft-Week-Rumors-Friday_NHP.php

 

Quote

Team sources told WalterFootball.com that Gordon’s makeup hurt him with teams. Teams questioned how much Gordon loves football and wonder if he might have a short career because he has other interests. Apparently, Gordon is big into competitive dance and teams were concerned that he was not interested in a football career as his top priority.

 

They went with the personality they felt safer with instead of the better talent. If that trend continues this year, if James Pearce and Walter Nolen are both on the board they'll pick Donovan Ezeiruaku instead. But you'd think by now they would feel comfortable enough with the culture they've built here to take a risk on a potential character concern.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

You're mistaken, we went from 204 to 170.

 

https://www.dallascowboys.com/news/2025-nfl-draft-cowboys-revised-selection-order-following-free-agency-trades-for-kaiir-elam-kenneth-murray

 

We still own the first pick of the 6th round.

 

https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart-Rich-Hill.asp

 

 

No joke it was probably that damn notebook. I genuinely believe that. This regime at times emphasizes the wrong things like character over talent. This was one of the draft rumors from that year on Kyler Gordon:

 

https://walterfootball.com/2022-NFL-Draft-Week-Rumors-Friday_NHP.php

 

 

They went with the personality they felt safer with instead of the better talent. If that trend continues this year, if James Pearce and Walter Nolen are both on the board they'll pick Donovan Ezeiruaku instead. But you'd think by now they would feel comfortable enough with the culture they've built here to take a risk on a potential character concern.

 

Thanks on the draft pick thing. I saw Pelissero reported it the other way, but that tweet seems to have disappeared so he must have got it wrong and corrected. 

 

That is interesting on Gordon. And I don't disagree character likely a big factor. But interesting that the Chiefs also had him ahead of Gordon. Though I suppose you can argue maybe that makes more sense for them scheme wise.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

7 hours ago, Chuck Schick said:

Philly took Jalen Raegor one pick ahead of JJ, SF spent a bunch of picks on Trey Lance, and KC took CEH in the first round. 
Good organizations adjust and move on. 

True but no one gave them credit when they got a 4th rounder for Lance. 
 

 

[MikePJ76]

Elam seems to be laying the blame for his struggles on the bills staff.  

 

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2025/03/18/kaiir-elam-didnt-shine-buffalo-bills-trade-to-dallas-cowboys/82515510007/

 

Despite all the frustration cornerback Kaiir Elam experienced during his deeply disappointing three-year association with the Buffalo Bills, the 2022 first-round pick almost always stayed out of the noisy discourse that surrounded him.

But Monday when he met with the media in Dallas following his trade from the Bills to the Cowboys, Elam released some pent up aggravation.

 

“Coming to Buffalo, I was a kid that just wanted to improve and learn and really show off my talents, but I was always put in the back seat,” Elam said.

 

 

Elam’s style of play never fit Sean McDermott’s system and the coaching staff was never able to get him to adapt, and there were rumors that former defensive backs coach John Butler never really had faith in Elam.

“I continued to put my head down and work, continued to make plays throughout the season and in the playoffs and stuff like that,” Elam said. “I just took everything I learned from there and all the baggage and improvements I felt like I needed to make and just packaged it up and worked on it every day. I don’t really see it as a negative. I really just see it as a growing opportunity for me to go shine somewhere else.”

Edited March 18 by MikePJ76

[wppete]

Cant believe he is bad mouthing the Bills. This guy was a disaster from the moment the Bills drafted him. Thankfully we drafted Benford in the same draft to make up for  an awful pick…. He wont last in Dallas. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

10 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

Elam seems to be laying the blame for his struggles on the bills staff.  

 

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2025/03/18/kaiir-elam-didnt-shine-buffalo-bills-trade-to-dallas-cowboys/82515510007/

 

Despite all the frustration cornerback Kaiir Elam experienced during his deeply disappointing three-year association with the Buffalo Bills, the 2022 first-round pick almost always stayed out of the noisy discourse that surrounded him.

But Monday when he met with the media in Dallas following his trade from the Bills to the Cowboys, Elam released some pent up aggravation.

 

“Coming to Buffalo, I was a kid that just wanted to improve and learn and really show off my talents, but I was always put in the back seat,” Elam said.

 

 

Elam’s style of play never fit Sean McDermott’s system and the coaching staff was never able to get him to adapt, and there were rumors that former defensive backs coach John Butler never really had faith in Elam.

“I continued to put my head down and work, continued to make plays throughout the season and in the playoffs and stuff like that,” Elam said. “I just took everything I learned from there and all the baggage and improvements I felt like I needed to make and just packaged it up and worked on it every day. I don’t really see it as a negative. I really just see it as a growing opportunity for me to go shine somewhere else.”

But did he write it all out in his notebook?

[MikePJ76]

10 minutes ago, wppete said:

Cant believe he is bad mouthing the Bills. This guy was a disaster from the moment the Bills drafted him. Thankfully we drafted Benford in the same draft to make up for  an awful pick…. He wont last in Dallas. 

i imagine the nitwits in the DFW media probably walked him into it in some respect.  All they know here is to look for headlines and problems.  One of the worst groups of media that covers a pro sports team in the country.

 

So I give him a subtle pass but yea he should not be saying anything negative in march, if he has a good season in Dallas and becomes a starter then he could say it was a coaching issue in Buffalo, not in march however.

[Jauronimo]

20 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

Elam seems to be laying the blame for his struggles on the bills staff.  

 

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2025/03/18/kaiir-elam-didnt-shine-buffalo-bills-trade-to-dallas-cowboys/82515510007/

 

Despite all the frustration cornerback Kaiir Elam experienced during his deeply disappointing three-year association with the Buffalo Bills, the 2022 first-round pick almost always stayed out of the noisy discourse that surrounded him.

But Monday when he met with the media in Dallas following his trade from the Bills to the Cowboys, Elam released some pent up aggravation.

 

“Coming to Buffalo, I was a kid that just wanted to improve and learn and really show off my talents, but I was always put in the back seat,” Elam said.

 

 

Elam’s style of play never fit Sean McDermott’s system and the coaching staff was never able to get him to adapt, and there were rumors that former defensive backs coach John Butler never really had faith in Elam.

“I continued to put my head down and work, continued to make plays throughout the season and in the playoffs and stuff like that,” Elam said. “I just took everything I learned from there and all the baggage and improvements I felt like I needed to make and just packaged it up and worked on it every day. I don’t really see it as a negative. I really just see it as a growing opportunity for me to go shine somewhere else.”

Thats fine.  A lot of high draft picks who don't pan out like to say they didn't get a chance.  He still believes in himself or at least thats what he is telling people in Dallas.  I didn't see much during his time in Buffalo that suggested he was going to pan out.  

[RiotAct]

lulz

[Captain Hindsight]

18 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Thats fine.  A lot of high draft picks who don't pan out like to say they didn't get a chance.  He still believes in himself or at least thats what he is telling people in Dallas.  I didn't see much during his time in Buffalo that suggested he was going to pan out.  

I remember him getting a start when someone was injured last year or the year before. I paid extra attention to him and was shocked at how bad his footwork was and how he seemed completely out of sorts. 1st round pick? If he and Benford had been drafted at each others spot, Elam would be a footnote in Bills history by now