Kaiir Elam traded to Cowboys

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

For a former 1st round pick, a 5th and 6th round pick swap is pretty much free.

 

I've seen a few people say this but it's really not true. We moved up 34 spots on day three. That isn't just a token cost, it's an entire round of picks we're getting ahead of. It could be the difference between still having draftable players on our board or not.

[BarleyNY]

34 minutes ago, Sweats said:

I still remember when this dude was drafted........to me, it was a panic pick, and we had no business drafting a square peg to fit a round hole.

 

Although it may go down as a forever failed Beane pick, at least we got something for him and maybe he'll be a better fit for the Boys

 

Yep. Never, ever, ever draft a CB who has to grab WRs at the top of their routes. Never. Getting grabby running side by side on go routes? Fine. You can work with that. But grabbing at the top of routes just means you can’t stick with the WR when they make a move. That never works in the NFL. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

31 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I haven't read this thread, at least not very much.  

 

From the standpoint of March 2025, this was a good deal for the Bills.  Elam was going nowhere in the organization, and getting anything for him rather than having him occupy a roster spot is a good thing.  (And as an aside, Jerry Jones might be the only GM in the league who would be willing to pay anything for Elam.)

 

From the standpoint of Elam as a first-round draft pick, he's about as big a busted pick as is possible.  My view is that a late-first round pick needs to be a starter by his second season.  It may very from position to position (a first-round running back has to be getting a lot of touches as a rookie or he's probably a mistake), but at most positions, if the guy isn't starting by his second season, something is wrong. Elam essentially never sniffed starting, unless he was more or less the only choice. 

 

He's been discussed before.  A guy with cover skills who hadn't shown a lot of the DB skills that McDermott values - playing complex defenses, including a variety of zone schemes, and an effective and aggressive tackler in the running game. It is unquestionable that Beane and his staff knew these things about him, because all of the public scouting reports at the time said exactly that. I'm assuming the Bills interviewed him before the draft, and they probably interviewed some of his coaches, and somehow they believed the Elam just needed to be taught and coached. They made a colossally bad judgment of who Elam is and what he could become.  

 

I like Beane, and my gut says he does a good job.  But my own keys to whether the GM is a keeper focus on three things:  1. Did they hire the right coach? 2. Did they find the right QB?  3. Did they get starters with their first- and second-round picks?  Beane never was tested on 1., got 2. right, and has underperformed on 3.  Obviously, Elam lowers his grade on the third point, big-time (but it's sort of offset by the Josh-Allen homerun).  Rousseau's a solid starter, Kincaid has underperformed, Oliver is a solid starter, Coleman's too early to tell.  Beyond those three major categories, he seems to do a good job in the later rounds.  Cook and Torrence are nice second-round gets, and Beane's done nicely in the mid- and late-rounds. 

 

How big a mistake was Elam?  Well, just imagine what could have been done instead drafting Elam. Take the picks they used to get him, and trade them for a first round pick in the draft the following year.  The Bills would have had two first-round picks - maybe they could have packaged them to move up.  Maybe they could have gotten another quality starter.  Maybe, maybe, maybe.  First-round picks are opportunities, and Elam was complete missed opportunity. 

 

In free agency, Beane has made few major moves except for Miller, but as he's often said, free-agency is for filling holes, not for bringing in talent. Talent comes in the draft.  And one reason the Bills seem to have little cap room every year is that, consistent with their philosophy, they spend their money to keep their talent, not to acquire new talent.  

 

How the Bills do in 2025 will depend a lot on Beane.  In particular, the Bills could be much better than 2024 if Kincaid, Coleman, and Bishop become valuable and effective starters, which none of them were in 2024.  If Bishop is who they hoped, he'll anchor the pass defense with Rapp or Forrest. If Bosa is who we hope, a consistent pass rushing edge, the Bills can make the rest of the defense work.  And if Beane can add a solid starter, somewhere, anywhere in the lineup, with the 2025 first round pick, the Bills will be loaded.  (Yeah, yeah, there's still Benford and Cook, but there'll be solutions.  I think the Bills keep both.)

 

Bottom line on Elam and Beane: A blown first-round pick really is a black mark on any GM's resume, and it's a black mark on Beane's.  But everyone makes mistakes; Elam was one of his biggest.  

 

Even Roseman makes mistakes: Jalen Reagor over jefferson, Wentz extension, agholor, even Huff last year - there's a ton of examples.  The key is trusting your eyes in practice and on film, and not waiting too long to make changes and continue to add players to valued position groups.  

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I've seen a few people say this but it's really not true. We moved up 34 spots on day three. That isn't just a token cost, it's an entire round of picks we're getting ahead of. It could be the difference between still having draftable players on our board or not.

 

I grant that as draft capital you're correct, but as compensation for a former 1st round pick: I said what I said.  34 spots in the draft is helpful, but as compensation for a 1st round pick (and recall, Elam's original cost was a 1st AND a 4th round because we traded up) ....it's next door to free.

[HappyDays]

31 minutes ago, Lafromboise said:

Rumor was beane wanted McDuffie.

 

There was no rumor, just speculation. This regime has a hardline stance on CB arm length and McDuffie didn't meet the criteria. I can believe that KC thought we would take McDuffie but I think they were mistaken.

[Shaw66]

24 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Even Roseman makes mistakes: Jalen Reagor over jefferson, Wentz extension, agholor, even Huff last year - there's a ton of examples.  The key is trusting your eyes in practice and on film, and not waiting too long to make changes and continue to add players to valued position groups.  

Thanks for this; it follows on what BeckWater said.  Everyone makes mistakes.  It's amazing that with all the work the GMs and their staff do, they still miss on plenty of players.  From our perspective, it seems easy, but in truth it really is more art than science.  

 

And there's one related thought about GM performance in the draft.  People are after Beane because he hasn't hit on any real game changer other than Allen.  (As an aside, it's important to remember the magnificent job Beane did trading up and up to get to the place he needed to be to have a shot at Allen. That alone was masterful, and then to have been so right about Allen - amazing.)  But as others have noted, you aren't finding game changers drafting 30th every year.  Once in a while there's a game changer there, but it's an accident when you hit one.  All you can do is keep drafting the Rousseau's and the Kincaids and hope that you get lucky and some guy turns into a HOF talent that 20 GMs missed on.  

[HappyDays]

27 minutes ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

I don't wanna be forced to go CB in round 1 as I don't feel value lines up to our draft position.

 

I'd be surprised if at least one of Barron, Revel, or Hairston aren't available at our pick, and any one of them would be worth #30. That would be my preference actually, especially with Benford's long term future on the team in doubt. But yeah they need to add a baseline starter at least so they're not totally desperate. At this point I'd even take Douglas back as long as it's very cheap and he understands a starting spot isn't guaranteed.

[MrEpsYtown]

They need to add a starting caliber corner so we don't repeat that same fate. 

 

We never addressed the position, talked up Dane jackson and got forced into a reach pick. Not to mention we traded up. It is what it is, obviously it was a mistake and its over. I am simply saying, if this regime really has "learned from it" then they will add a starting level corner here at some point.  

[Chandler#81]

 

[Augie]

2 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Even Roseman makes mistakes: Jalen Reagor over jefferson, Wentz extension, agholor, even Huff last year - there's a ton of examples.  The key is trusting your eyes in practice and on film, and not waiting too long to make changes and continue to add players to valued position groups.  

 

Yeah, it’s funny how some of our “fans” think we are the only team that screws up. It happens all across the league. You just have to get it right more than most. 

10 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

 

Why do I feel bad laughing at that???  😂 

[BuffaloBillyG]

27 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

 Ever found his footing and ultimately fell flat in his face. Very accurate.

[NoName]

5 hours ago, Chuck Schick said:

Really? I mean he COULD be ok I suppose but I think just about everyone involved are assuming the opposite. 

I think Elam showed an ability to make some plays.  Unfortunately for him, he was inconsistent and a pass interference machine.  Maybe going to Dallas and a different scheme might play to his strengths.  He will definitely be considered a 1st round bust but we've had other 1st rounders that were much worse than him.

Edited Thursday at 06:38 PM by NoName
a

[Old Coot]

Elam's tenure as a Buffalo Bill

 

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, NoName said:

I think Elam showed an ability to make some plays.  He was inconsistent and a pass interference machine.  Maybe going to Dallas and a different scheme might play to his strengths.  We've had worse 1st round players than him imo.

 

I still remember Walt Patulski drafted #1 overall. I just found an article that politely described his short football career as “uninspired”.  😂 

[CheshireCT]

It does help that we got Christian Benford in the 5th round of the same draft....  If he was our 1st round pick, would we be upset with the outcome? And we get his 5th back to boot. LOL

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

28 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

They need to add a starting caliber corner so we don't repeat that same fate. 

 

We never addressed the position, talked up Dane jackson and got forced into a reach pick. Not to mention we traded up. It is what it is, obviously it was a mistake and its over. I am simply saying, if this regime really has "learned from it" then they will add a starting level corner here at some point.  

 

Elam going makes no change to what they need to do address the position.  They likely need 2 boundary corners, and i don't think anyone from the group of Ingram, Lewis, Forrest, or Hamlin should feel that their job is safe.  10 draft picks is a lot - positions of need (including depth):

 

WR - Only 4 under contract currently, and only 1 on a rookie deal.  

Guard - Seems to be the weaker of the position groups.  

TE - Late round potential type of scenario with knox approaching the end of his deal.  Wouldn't be shocked to see knox stick for far less money here though.

DE - Bosa makes this position a lot more dangerous for 2025, but its another band-aid on a position that hasn't been a strength.  

DT - Would like to see a younger 1T as would everyone else.  

LB - Milano will start here this year (assuming healthy), but he's likely gone in 2026.  Williams played alright, but I'm not sure his processing will ever be anything better than alright.  Spector, andreesen, and ulofoshio are all very replaceable and upgradeable.  

CB2 - Could be one of first 3 picks.

CB3 - Elams gone, and we were mostly afraid to play him, feels like a good use of one of the 5ths

Nickel - Lewis played fine in some limited spots, but he's smaller and it might be time to start planning for a potential future without TJ

S - Hamlin and forrest are both easily moved away from if you bring in a player who has more upside and future

Punter - I'd expect an UDFA here

[Since1981]

15 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

 

I can’t believe after 4 years of watching him people still defend him. He was awful here, he wasn’t that good his last year at Florida. He was taken on attributes and athleticism 

 

Beane. Attribute and athleticism. 
same as #17 

didn’t work with Elam. He was baaaaaad

[Einstein]

2022 NFL Draft:

Pick 21: 1st Team All-Pro CB Trent McDuffie
Pick 22: Respectable LB - Quay Walker
Pick 23: Kaiir Elam
Pick 24: 2nd Team All-Pro OT Tyler Smith
Pick 25: Two-time Pro-Bowl C Tyler Lindenbaum

It takes skill to screw this up so badly.

[Chicken Boo]

5 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

 come on now man, you can do better than such nonsense. 

 

All I said was that giving Beane credit for getting a 5th rounder out of his 1st round pick was nothing to celebrate.

 

I'm not wrong.  

5 hours ago, The Wiz said:

Apparently reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

 

The bills were able to get draft capital and clear 2.5m from their salary cap this year vs carrying a player that didn't work out in their system for 4.6m and then likely would have let him go at the end of the season anyways.

 

The fact that he was a bust for the Bills was never even mentioned in my previous comment but you do you.

 

 

 

Ha!

 

You guys are trying to make this move seem like some kind of win.  It's weird.  

[Don Otreply]

10 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

All I said was that giving Beane credit for getting a 5th rounder out of his 1st round pick was nothing to celebrate.

 

I'm not wrong.  

 

Ha!

 

You guys are trying to make this move seem like some kind of win.  It's weird.  

If you draft a player that has been a flop for three seasons, and then actually get something of value in a trade, it is a positive outcome, all teams go through this sort of thing every so often, so yes it is a win in this regard,