Honest discussion of our D Line

[TD716]

1T still missing , no push up the middle, we have plenty of DL that dance around. Philly stopped KC by pushing the pocket.

[PromoTheRobot]

23 hours ago, JimmyNoodles said:

Honesty hurts.  

Are we being dishonest here?

[Bills!Win!]

One thing our D line lacks is size. We need to upgrade in that area 

[BarleyNY]

Bosa is going to have to do a lot of heavy lifting on the pass rush for this to be a noticeable upgrade. That would make life a lot easier on Oliver, Roussea & Co. This group plus some draft help should not be bad, but it’s not where I’d want it to be in a scheme that relies on pressure from the front 4. In a more blitz heave defense I’d be a lot happier with it. Hopefully we nail some draft picks on the DL next month and things click. 

[SoTier]

8 hours ago, ganesh said:

The Bills need a fierce pass rush to get past Mahomes and company and win the SuperBowl.   They still need to add talent at DT and DL in the draft that can contribute immediately.

 

I think that the only way the Bills are likely to get a ready-to-start DLer in the draft is to trade up into the top half of the draft.  I don't think they have enough draft capital to get to the top ten, but in a draft deep in DL talent, top half of the first might be enough.  Aaron Donald went #13 in 2014.  Jared Verse went #19 in 2024 when 6 QBs were taken in the first 12 picks.   The Bills first and one of their seconds and another pick or two or a player could get them into the top half of the draft. 

 

 

[uticaclub]

This is year seven of this regime, and the philosophy isn’t centered around building a strong defense with highly skilled players. Having Josh on the team puts significant pressure on the opposing offense, which allows us to capitalize on their mistakes. When the other team plays carelessly, our defense appears formidable; however, when the other team is performing well, our defense often looks ineffective. It's a cycle that continues.

[appoo]

25 minutes ago, TD716 said:

1T still missing , no push up the middle, we have plenty of DL that dance around. Philly stopped KC by pushing the pocket.

They might have the only 1T who’s a truly effective pass rusher. Regardless, pass downs is why the bills got the guy from Pittsburgh.

 

Also, if Bosa is healthy he’s a top 5 Edge

[BuffaloMatt]

4 hours ago, BobbyC81 said:

Duh!   That’s been said since before he was drafted.

No Kidding! Just responding to OP question, you should try it. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

23 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

I’ll begin by saying I like what Beane has done so far to improve the D line with the draft still to go. On paper this line should be more effective at stopping the run, but it seems about the same in rushing the QB with upside if Bosa remains healthy.

 

Here is how things stand 

DE - Groot, AJE, Solomon, Bosa, Hoecht (DT/LB)

DT - Oliver, Jones, Carter, Ogunjobi, Lodge

Ogunjobi is an upgrade on Austin Johnson, Bosa is an upgrade on AJE and Miller when healthy and Hoecht fills the utility role held by Smoot last season.  My biggest concern with Bosa, besides his health, is whether McD will again push Groot to the right side to accommodate Bosa like they did with Miller.  This is not the highest and best use of Rousseau’s talent IMHO.

 

The best part of the Bosa signing is that he is a 3 down player and he hopefully send AJE to the bench or off the team.  I am not a fan.  The Bills can save a decent amount in cap if they release him and the truth is he is mediocre against the run and his pressure rate was terrible last season.  I’d much rather Bosa rotate with Solomon, Hoecht and whomever they draft.  My hope is a good edge rusher falls to the Bills at 30.  That player then has a good camp earning PT above AJE and the tackling challenged Solomon.

 

I am looking forward to watching DTs Oliver, Jones, Carter and Ogunjobi play the interior this season.  I believe Ogunjobi can challenge Jones for the starting job.  With Ogunjobi and Carter on one year deals at this point, finding a DT early in this draft is also still an imperative.

The ultimate question is has Beane done enough to improve our defense against the run and our pass rush?  

 

 

The Bills need to do whatever they can to have Rousseau & Bosa on the field as much as possible. That is an insanely good pass rushing duo. Obviously we all know Bosa’s health is key. His motivation will be through the roof on a one year deal. They need to bring him along slowly by giving AJE the majority of snaps at first.
 

As far as your question… So far it is not enough. Counting on Bosa to be healthy is too much of a risk and Epenesa is not good enough to be the majority pass rusher on the other side for the entire season. We still have the draft and many things can happen. We just have to see how the top half of round 1 plays out.

 

If a bluechip D-lineman falls, I think Beane is going to move up. The Bills have a ton of picks, but not a ton of holes. That is the perfect recipe to trade back up. I believe they were awarded 2 more compensatory 5th rounders (1st & 3rd pick which is awesome) bringing their total to 10 choices. They can package their 1st, plus both 2nds to get back up in the top half of the 1st round, grab a bluechip DT, then package a 4th & 5th to move back up in the 3rd to grab a DE. The remaining picks should all be BPA and athletic projects. 

Edited Thursday at 03:20 PM by ChronicAndKnuckles

[GASabresIUFan]

16 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Bosa is going to have to do a lot of heavy lifting on the pass rush for this to be a noticeable upgrade.

This is a fair statement.  AJE doesn’t really help.  I think Beane’s hope is that Bosa, Hoecht, Ogunjobi, Solomon and whomever we draft as a group are able to bring more pressure overall, along with Groot and Bosa. Kind of an everyone eats philosophy for the D line.  We know Oliver is able to get to the QB periodically. Ogunjobi has had success as an inside pass rusher although he slipped some last year.  Hoecht has had success as an outside rusher with a 12.1% pressure rate last season compared to AJE’s 7.1%. Bosa’s pressure rate was 11.5% and Groot’s 14.4% last season.  
 

I agree that Bosa is the key, but there is hope for an improved pash rush even without Bosa dominating. 

[JimmyNoodles]

59 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Are we being dishonest here?

Here's as honest as I can be...we better have a great draft on the DL.  

[hondo in seattle]

23 hours ago, Sweats said:

For the most part, not being able to stop the run last year really didn't hurt us all that badly.........yeah, we gave away the Ravens game in the first match-up and assembled all of our resources the 2nd time we played and stopped Henry, but other than that, there really wasn't too many times where we were steam rolled into submission through anyone's run game.

 

As limited in talent as our D was and as much as we all yelled at our tv's to stop teams from running on us, we did an adequate job with what we had to work with.

 

Defending the passing game is another story, however.

We always seem to give 10-15 yards cushions, play soft and seem to let teams dink and dunk all over us all over the field........the passing game is where i see where the problem lies IMO.

 

You make a good point.  In a passing league where most yards are gained through the air, it's better to be good against the pass than the run.  

 

Yet it's not quite as much a passing league as it was a few years ago.  And I think it was Chris Sims who said that if the Bills played the Ravens 10 times last year, the Ravens would win 9.  His point was that they have the better overall roster.  I'm sure our mediocre DL was part of that assessment.  

 

We weren't great against the run or the pass last season and in my dreams, both concerns are fixed this offseason.    

[nosejob]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Bosa is going to have to do a lot of heavy lifting on the pass rush for this to be a noticeable upgrade. That would make life a lot easier on Oliver, Roussea & Co. This group plus some draft help should not be bad, but it’s not where I’d want it to be in a scheme that relies on pressure from the front 4. In a more blitz heave defense I’d be a lot happier with it. Hopefully we nail some draft picks on the DL next month and things click. 

Maybe after June 1st?

[nosejob]

2 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

The Bills need to do whatever they can to have Rousseau & Bosa on the field as much as possible. That is an insanely good pass rushing duo. Obviously we all know Bosa’s health is key. His motivation will be through the roof on a one year deal. They need to bring him along slowly by giving AJE the majority of snaps at first.
 

As far as your question… So far it is not enough. Counting on Bosa to be healthy is too much of a risk and Epenesa is not good enough to be the majority pass rusher on the other side for the entire season. We still have the draft and many things can happen. We just have to see how the top half of round 1 plays out.

 

If a bluechip D-lineman falls, I think Beane is going to move up. The Bills have a ton of picks, but not a ton of holes. That is the perfect recipe to trade back up. I believe they were awarded 2 more compensatory 5th rounders (1st & 3rd pick which is awesome) bringing their total to 10 choices. They can package their 1st, plus both 2nds to get back up in the top half of the 1st round, grab a bluechip DT, then package a 4th & 5th to move back up in the 3rd to grab a DE. The remaining picks should all be BPA and athletic projects. 

Could they snag Mason Graham?

[Jerome007]

Well, personally, I'm excited with the 3 new DL(OLB) signings. As with anything line related, it also helps the current players, yes that includes AJE, Oliver and Rousseau. 

 

Safeties are strong too IMO, Forrest makes this a strong enough group with Rapp, Bishop and Hamlin. Only glaring need is CB, and since supposedly the draft is filled with good interior DL, future is bright! Unless Milano has aged badly, LB group is set too. OLine are strong, JA is back there, and hopefully Palmer produces and Kincaid is back to his rookie form.

 

Barring injuries, this Bills team seems already stronger than the 2024 one, and the draft is still to come!

[Warriorspikes51]

Calais today please and thank you

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, nosejob said:

Maybe after June 1st?

I think it’ll have to be the draft. With the post 6/1 designation nothing much seems to happen on 6/2 anymore. 

[nosejob]

IDK, maybe a Tomlinson or something?

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

8 hours ago, nosejob said:

Could they snag Mason Graham?

That would be a dream come true.

[Gunsgoodtime]

Until I see a ***** on the field I still have hope for the D line