Royale with Cheese Posted March 15 Posted March 15 4 minutes ago, FireChans said: He didn’t win 13 games so no. Mahomes won 15 games last year so he should have won MVP? Maybe Goff? 1 Quote
uticaclub Posted March 15 Posted March 15 9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: And what possible relevance does this have? This is just “if ifs and buts were candy and nuts” crap. We played our schedule and kicked ass. That’s how the league works. Cinci’s roster got discredited for not making the playoffs, yet they would have ran away with the AFC East had we switched divisions 5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Mahomes won 15 games last year so he should have won MVP? Maybe Goff? Who on our offense are you picking over a Detroit starter & who on our defense are you picking over a KC starter? Quote
Royale with Cheese Posted March 15 Posted March 15 (edited) 19 minutes ago, uticaclub said: Does Cinci make the playoffs in the AFC East is question I will answer your question and you answer mine. The Bengals went 3-3 in the North. They will have to play the Bills twice. So yes, I think they still go 3-3 in the east because they gave up nearly 28 ppg last season. 44 to Russell Wilson and the Steelers who were god awful on offense. Do the Bills go 9-8 in the North and miss the playoffs? Edited March 15 by Royale with Cheese Quote
Royale with Cheese Posted March 15 Posted March 15 (edited) 18 minutes ago, uticaclub said: Cinci’s roster got discredited for not making the playoffs, yet they would have ran away with the AFC East had we switched divisions Who on our offense are you picking over a Detroit starter & who on our defense are you picking over a KC starter? Cincy runs away with the East giving up 28 ppg? They lost to the Pats week 1. Both the Browns and Steelers have terrible offenses and they got to play them 4 times. Im not sure what point you’re trying to make selecting one player from each of those teams. What offensive starter on the Chiefs would you take over a Detroit starter? Does that question mean anything? Edited March 15 by Royale with Cheese Quote
uticaclub Posted March 15 Posted March 15 4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: I will answer your question and you answer mine. The Bengals went 3-3 in the North. They will have to play the Bills twice. So yes, I think they still go 3-3 because they gave up nearly 28 ppg last season. 44 to Russell Wilson and the Steelers who were god awful on offense. Do the Bills go 9-8 in the North and miss the playoffs? I was switching the Bills & Cinci. Buffalo probably goes 4-2, possibly 3-3 against division rivals Pitt, Bmore & Cleveland, this of course is factoring Tomlin better game planning for division opponents, while Cinci could go 6-0/5-1 against the Jets, Pats & Fish losing a meaningless last game of the season. 2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Cincy runs away with the East giving up 28 ppg? Both the Browns and Steelers have terrible offenses and they got to play them 4 times. Im not sure what point you’re trying to make selecting one player from each of those teams. What offensive starter on the Chiefs would you take over a Detroit starter? Does that question mean anything? It does for MVP discussion. Josh did more with less, which is why he won the award Quote
FireChans Posted March 15 Posted March 15 19 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Mahomes won 15 games last year so he should have won MVP? Maybe Goff? Mahomes had a great defense and had mediocre numbers. Allen had elite numbers throwing to Mack Hollins as his number 1 with a mediocre defense. Allen won MVP last year because no QB carried their team harder than he did. Everyone knows this. You are just afraid to take the next logical step that by definition, that means the team NEEDED TO BE CARRIED BECAUSE THEY ARENT THAT GOOD. 1 1 Quote
Royale with Cheese Posted March 15 Posted March 15 1 minute ago, uticaclub said: I was switching the Bills & Cinci. Buffalo probably goes 4-2, possibly 3-3 against division rivals Pitt, Bmore & Cleveland, this of course is factoring Tomlin better game planning for division opponents, while Cinci could go 6-0/5-1 against the Jets, Pats & Fish losing a meaningless last game of the season. It does for MVP discussion. Josh did more with less, which is why he won the award Cincy lost to the Pats week 1 lol. But all of a sudden they’re now going to sweep the division. 1 minute ago, FireChans said: Mahomes had a great defense and had mediocre numbers. Allen had elite numbers throwing to Mack Hollins as his number 1 with a mediocre defense. Allen won MVP last year because no QB carried their team harder than he did. Everyone knows this. You are just afraid to take the next logical step that by definition, that means the team NEEDED TO BE CARRIED BECAUSE THEY ARENT THAT GOOD. Mack Hollins was our #1 when he was 4th on our team in targets? Typically your #1 WR leads your team in targets but not with the Bills I guess. Goff had elite numbers, won 15 games and had an injury ravaged defense that couldn’t stop anyone. A worse defense than ours. Quote
FireChans Posted March 15 Posted March 15 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Cincy lost to the Pats week 1 lol. But all of a sudden they’re now going to sweep the division. Mack Hollins was our #1 when he was 4th on our team in targets? Typically your #1 WR leads your team in targets but not with the Bills I guess. Goff had elite numbers, won 15 games and had an injury ravaged defense that couldn’t stop anyone. A worse defense than ours. Mack was #1 in snaps at WR lol. Goff has a great offensive supporting cast. the Bills clearly didn’t. That’s the whole point lol. And the Lions defense ravaged by injury was still better than the Bills. Are you trying to make my point for me? Do you think Goff or Lamar or whoever carried their team harder than Josh? Of course you don’t. Edited March 15 by FireChans 1 Quote
uticaclub Posted March 15 Posted March 15 7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Cincy lost to the Pats week 1 lol. But all of a sudden they’re now going to sweep the division. Mack Hollins was our #1 when he was 4th on our team in targets? Typically your #1 WR leads your team in targets but not with the Bills I guess. Goff had elite numbers, won 15 games and had an injury ravaged defense that couldn’t stop anyone. A worse defense than ours. You know better than to judge NFL teams on their week 1 performances. Why is there a saying “smart money doesn't bet week 1”? I'm just happy KC didn't play week 17 allowing Denver to make the playoffs instead of Cinci. Goff also had St Brown & LaPorta. Josh had Samuel & Kincaid. Quote
uticaclub Posted March 15 Posted March 15 1 hour ago, SoTier said: Do you even know who Connor McGovern is? I mean, the Connor McGovern the Bills signed as an UFA from Dallas in 2023 is definitely an impact player. The other Connor McGovern is a well-traveled JAG center for Broncos, Jests, Saints, and the Jests again. Adding McGovern as a guard to the Bills OL in 2023, significantly improved that unit. Moving McGovern to C in 2024 to replace Mitch Morse helped make the Bills OL one of the best units in the NFL. What team allowed the fewest QB sacks in 2024? Oh, yeah, that talentless Bills OL allowed only 14 QB sacks. Moreover, the Bills running game in 2024 was #9 in rushing yards, #12 in yards per carry, and #1 in rushing TDs. Dawkins, Brown, and McGovern are all impact players. That you ignore the importance of the Bills OL to the team's success demonstrates your ignorance. The last time I looked, 2023 was only 2 years ago. Connor McGovern is most definitely an impact player. We were discussing draft picks. McGovern has been a solid FA pick up 1 Quote
Royale with Cheese Posted March 15 Posted March 15 9 minutes ago, uticaclub said: You know better than to judge NFL teams on their week 1 performances. Why is there a saying “smart money doesn't bet week 1”? I'm just happy KC didn't play week 17 allowing Denver to make the playoffs instead of Cinci. Goff also had St Brown & LaPorta. Josh had Samuel & Kincaid. Okay well lets judge them on 17 weeks. The Bengals lost 8 games and gave up 28 ppg last season in a division with two really bad offenses. Why did you pick Samuel over Shakir for your comparison lol? Quote
uticaclub Posted March 15 Posted March 15 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Okay well lets judge them on 17 weeks. The Bengals lost 8 games and gave up 28 ppg last season in a division with two really bad offenses. Why did you pick Samuel over Shakir for your comparison lol? Bengals gave up 25.5 while the Bills gave up 21.6; you replace our Jet games with their Baltimore games and that number evens out. I picked Samuel because he’s our highest-paid WR Edited March 15 by uticaclub Quote
FireChans Posted March 15 Posted March 15 8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Okay well lets judge them on 17 weeks. The Bengals lost 8 games and gave up 28 ppg last season in a division with two really bad offenses. Why did you pick Samuel over Shakir for your comparison lol? Did Jared Goff carry the Lions more than Josh carried the Bills? point blank. Quote
SoTier Posted March 15 Posted March 15 (edited) 53 minutes ago, uticaclub said: It does for MVP discussion. Josh did more with less, which is why he won the award Actually, this is untrue. There are no specific criteria for MVP given to the voters. Each voter casts votes for his top 5 MVP candidates. Quote 2024 NFL MVP voting results Allen was named the league's most valuable player for the 2024 season. Philadelphia Eagles running back Saquon Barkley, Cincinnati Bengals quarterback Joe Burrow, Detroit Lions quarterback Jared Goff and Baltimore Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson were the other finalists for the award. Allen was the top vote-getter with 383 points. Jackson finished second with 362 points and Barkley finished with 120 for third. A first-place vote is worth 10 points, a second-place vote is worth 5 points, a third-place vote is worth 3 points, a fourth-place vote is 2 points and a fifth-place vote is 1 point. How Josh Allen won the MVP 34 minutes ago, uticaclub said: We were discussing draft picks. McGovern has been a solid FA pick up Nope, your fellow trollboy Mike2times challenged somebody to name the last impact player the Bills had drafted or signed. I named Cook and Shakir as 2 draftees from 2022, and McGovern as a FA signee in 2023. Edited March 15 by SoTier Quote
oldmanfan Posted March 15 Author Posted March 15 1 hour ago, uticaclub said: Cinci’s roster got discredited for not making the playoffs, yet they would have ran away with the AFC East had we switched divisions Who on our offense are you picking over a Detroit starter & who on our defense are you picking over a KC starter? Again, who the hell cares? 1 Quote
FireChans Posted March 15 Posted March 15 30 minutes ago, SoTier said: Actually, this is untrue. There are no specific criteria for MVP given to the voters. Each voter casts votes for his top 5 MVP candidates. How Josh Allen won the MVP Nope, your fellow trollboy Mike2times challenged somebody to name the last impact player the Bills had drafted or signed. I named Cook and Shakir as 2 draftees from 2022, and McGovern as a FA signee in 2023. Do you think another QB in the National Football League in 2024 carried their team more than Josh Allen did? This question scared off @Royale with Cheese because he knew it was a kill shot. Let’s see if you cower too. Quote
uticaclub Posted March 15 Posted March 15 (edited) 46 minutes ago, SoTier said: Actually, this is untrue. There are no specific criteria for MVP given to the voters. Each voter casts votes for his top 5 MVP candidates. How Josh Allen won the MVP Nope, your fellow trollboy Mike2times challenged somebody to name the last impact player the Bills had drafted or signed. I named Cook and Shakir as 2 draftees from 2022, and McGovern as a FA signee in 2023. That article provides no useful information. What were their votes based on? Why did voters consider Josh the MVP? They even mentioned how poor our wide receivers were last year. Yes, McGovern has been a solid player but even you have to admit, that there has been far more misses than hits. If you are hanging your hat on signing a useful center, you need to elevate your expectations. Edited March 15 by uticaclub Quote
Mikie2times Posted March 15 Posted March 15 3 hours ago, SoTier said: Do you even know who Connor McGovern is? I mean, the Connor McGovern the Bills signed as an UFA from Dallas in 2023 is definitely an impact player. The other Connor McGovern is a well-traveled JAG center for Broncos, Jests, Saints, and the Jests again. Adding McGovern as a guard to the Bills OL in 2023, significantly improved that unit. Moving McGovern to C in 2024 to replace Mitch Morse helped make the Bills OL one of the best units in the NFL. What team allowed the fewest QB sacks in 2024? Oh, yeah, that talentless Bills OL allowed only 14 QB sacks. Moreover, the Bills running game in 2024 was #9 in rushing yards, #12 in yards per carry, and #1 in rushing TDs. Dawkins, Brown, and McGovern are all impact players. That you ignore the importance of the Bills OL to the team's success demonstrates your ignorance. The last time I looked, 2023 was only 2 years ago. Connor McGovern is most definitely an impact player. Do you think I give Beane a hard time for his inability to add players like McGovern? Beane finds B players all the time. McGovern is not an All Pro or a top 100 player. As of last year we don’t have any top 100 players or all pros outside of Allen. B players with an MVP QB get you to the divisional round. You need at least a couple A players to go further. Thats not to mention his borderline intoxicated approaches to resolving our WR issues or DT. Depth at LB which is a problem every year. Depth in the secondary which is a problem every year. He has built two highly effective units in the 6+ years he’s been here. The offensive line and RB. That is it. No other units we have are over a B and many are lower, injury prone, or over invested for the results we have gotten. 1 Quote
Royale with Cheese Posted March 15 Posted March 15 1 hour ago, FireChans said: Mack was #1 in snaps at WR lol. Goff has a great offensive supporting cast. the Bills clearly didn’t. That’s the whole point lol. And the Lions defense ravaged by injury was still better than the Bills. Are you trying to make my point for me? Do you think Goff or Lamar or whoever carried their team harder than Josh? Of course you don’t. #1 in snaps but 4th in targets lol. That’s your argument he was our #1? Does that mean Stefon Diggs wasn’t our #1 in 2023 or 2022 because Gabe Davis out snapped him? My definition of a #1 WR is who they throw to more. You can believe its who they ask to block more. I think Josh carried more than Goff and Jackson but that wasn’t or hasn’t been my argument. This all originally started with me responding to a comment that the Bills have zero impact players other than Allen. Quote
oldmanfan Posted March 15 Author Posted March 15 2 minutes ago, Mikie2times said: Do you think I give Beane a hard time for his inability to add players like McGovern? Beane finds B players all the time. McGovern is not an All Pro or a top 100 player. As of last year we don’t have any top 100 players or all pros outside of Allen. B players with an MVP QB get you to the divisional round. You need at least a couple A players to go further. Thats not to mention his borderline intoxicated approaches to resolving our WR issues or DT. Depth at LB which is a problem every year. Depth in the secondary which is a problem every year. He has built two highly effective units in the 6+ years he’s been here. The offensive line and RB. That is it. No other units we have are over a B and many are lower, injury prone, or over invested for the results we have gotten. You want All Pros as depth. You don’t understand the concept. 1 Quote
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