Beane is being Beane

[Mikie2times]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

You want All Pros as depth.  You don’t understand the concept.

😂😂😂 I want ONE other all pro in 7 years who will be on our roster next year

[Royale with Cheese]

51 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Do you think another QB in the National Football League in 2024 carried their team more than Josh Allen did?

 

This question scared off @Royale with Cheese because he knew it was a kill shot. Let’s see if you cower too.

Wow.  Talk about taking a message board way too serious lol.

Measuring toughness on an internet message board??  “Scared” and “cower” 😂

 

I have things I will do today and can’t respond every single reply immediately.  Especially when this wasn’t the original argument.

I even promised myself I wouldn’t cower to anything this weekend…*****.  I hate when I can’t keep promises.

 

2 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

😂😂😂 I want ONE other all pro in 7 years who will be on our roster next year

Just because someone wasn’t awarded an All Pro doesn’t mean he didn’t play at an All Pro level.

 

There might not have been a better Right Tackle than Spencer Brown.

Josh Allen plays like an All Pro every year but isn’t given the award every year.

 

James Cook played at an All Pro level last year.  
 

 

[Snappysnackcakes]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Do you even know who Connor McGovern is?   I mean, the Connor McGovern the Bills signed as an UFA from Dallas in 2023 is definitely an impact player.  The other Connor McGovern is a well-traveled JAG center for Broncos, Jests, Saints, and the Jests again.  

 

Adding McGovern as a guard to the Bills OL in 2023, significantly improved that unit.  Moving McGovern to C in 2024 to replace Mitch Morse helped make the Bills OL one of the best units in the NFL.  What team allowed the fewest QB sacks in 2024?  Oh, yeah, that talentless Bills OL allowed only 14 QB sacks.  Moreover, the Bills running game in 2024 was #9 in rushing yards, #12 in yards per carry, and #1 in rushing TDs.

 

Dawkins, Brown, and McGovern are all impact players.  That you ignore the importance of the Bills OL to the team's success demonstrates your ignorance.

 

 

The last time I looked, 2023 was only 2 years ago.  Connor McGovern is most definitely an impact player. 

 

 

 

Edmunds got a massive UFA contract. Your understanding of player exceptionalism surely must be based on contract dollars, no? 

[uticaclub]

16 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Wow.  Talk about taking a message board way too serious lol.

Measuring toughness on an internet message board??  “Scared” and “cower” 😂

 

I have things I will do today and can’t respond every single reply immediately.  Especially when this wasn’t the original argument.

I even promised myself I wouldn’t cower to anything this weekend…*****.  I hate when I can’t keep promises.

 

Just because someone wasn’t awarded an All Pro doesn’t mean he didn’t play at an All Pro level.

 

There might not have been a better Right Tackle than Spencer Brown.

Josh Allen plays like an All Pro every year but isn’t given the award every year.

 

James Cook played at an All Pro level last year.  
 

 

Cook averaged less than 60 yards a game & while Brown is solid he is not of the level of Sewell, Lane Johnson or Wirfs, yet.

10 minutes ago, Snappysnackcakes said:

Edmunds got a massive UFA contract. Your understanding of player exceptionalism surely must be based on contract dollars, no? 

And how is that working out. Ask someone who follows the Bears what they think of Edmunds

Edited March 15 by uticaclub

[oldmanfan]

21 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

😂😂😂 I want ONE other all pro in 7 years who will be on our roster next year

You were carping about depth.  Try to keep focused.

[Snappysnackcakes]

Edmunds is a player with inverted potential levels. Very high ceiling and very low floor. His football IQ is terrible; read, recognition, cognition are terrible. (I’m glad he’s gone but he still signed a massive contract)

 

if you think every player we draft or sign has to be a superstar, your logic there is terribly flawed. I literally wouldn’t even want to go down that path with you because it seems that you’re here to only argue. Understand that assembling a roster is like filling a bucket with rocks. If you only put very large rocks in it, you’ll only be able to fill the remainder with gravel. You need a combination of large, medium, and small rocks to maximize the roster. This is Bill Walsh’s philosophy that is the modern roster building philosophy of the NFL. 
 

To call the GM of our team inadequate because he doesn’t have all pros at every position is the most ######ed thing I’ve heard in my life, football wise. We have a talented roster; talented enough to go deep into the playoffs year after year. 

[Royale with Cheese]

9 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Cook averaged less than 60 yards a game & while Brown is solid he is not of the level of Sewell, Lane Johnson or Wirfs, yet.

And how is that working out. Ask someone who follows the Bears what they think of Edmunds

Spencer Brown was more than just solid.

There might not have been a better right tackle than Spencer Brown last year.

Cook had 18 total TD’s, a 4.9 ypc average and 5 runs of 40+ yards for TD’s. 

[FireChans]

52 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

#1 in snaps but 4th in targets lol.  That’s your argument he was our #1?  Does that mean Stefon Diggs wasn’t our #1 in 2023 or 2022 because Gabe Davis out snapped him?  My definition of a #1 WR is who they throw to more.  You can believe its who they ask to block more.

 

I think Josh carried more than Goff and Jackson but that wasn’t or hasn’t been my argument.

 

This all originally started with me responding to a comment that the Bills have zero impact players other than Allen.  

 

 

Thank you for the answer. Do you think Josh won MVP in part BECAUSE he carried more than Goff or Lamar?

 

aka Lamar and Goff had more talent than Allen did surrounding them?

Edited March 15 by FireChans

[Turbo44]

33 minutes ago, Snappysnackcakes said:

Edmunds is a player with inverted potential levels. Very high ceiling and very low floor. His football IQ is terrible; read, recognition, cognition are terrible. (I’m glad he’s gone but he still signed a massive contract)

 

if you think every player we draft or sign has to be a superstar, your logic there is terribly flawed. I literally wouldn’t even want to go down that path with you because it seems that you’re here to only argue. Understand that assembling a roster is like filling a bucket with rocks. If you only put very large rocks in it, you’ll only be able to fill the remainder with gravel. You need a combination of large, medium, and small rocks to maximize the roster. This is Bill Walsh’s philosophy that is the modern roster building philosophy of the NFL. 
 

To call the GM of our team inadequate because he doesn’t have all pros at every position is the most ######ed thing I’ve heard in my life, football wise. We have a talented roster; talented enough to go deep into the playoffs year after year. 

I disagree. I think Edmund’s has a high floor and low ceiling due to his measurables and low football IQ

[uticaclub]

46 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Spencer Brown was more than just solid.

There might not have been a better right tackle than Spencer Brown last year.

Cook had 18 total TD’s, a 4.9 ypc average and 5 runs of 40+ yards for TD’s. 

The sack allowed percentage is an interesting statistic. In 2022, even when he shouldn't have been on the field, he recorded a 0.77% sack allowed percentage. While this is an improvement, it doesn't accurately reflect how much he has actually improved during gameplay.

 

There has been a lot of discussion about Cooks' touchdowns on these boards. With 6OL and Josh as the quarterback, there will be many opportunities for a running back. This raises the question of whether we should pay him or consider finding someone else who can achieve similar results at a lower cap hit.

[Snappysnackcakes]

They will let Cook walk. You have that summed up perfectly. 

20 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

I disagree. I think Edmund’s has a high floor and low ceiling due to his measurables and low football IQ

I struggled with how to make this point and you’re right. His ceiling is lower than his floor, thus the inversion. Thanks for articulating it better than I. 

[Royale with Cheese]

13 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

The sack allowed percentage is an interesting statistic. In 2022, even when he shouldn't have been on the field, he recorded a 0.77% sack allowed percentage. While this is an improvement, it doesn't accurately reflect how much he has actually improved during gameplay.

 

There has been a lot of discussion about Cooks' touchdowns on these boards. With 6OL and Josh as the quarterback, there will be many opportunities for a running back. This raises the question of whether we should pay him or consider finding someone else who can achieve similar results at a lower cap hit.

He was #1 in the league, that’s how much of an improvement it was.  As in no one was better at it.  
 

Okay but we measure a player by production and Cook produced.  The argument that he didn’t have an impact is ludicrous.

[BananaB]

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

He was #1 in the league, that’s how much of an improvement it was.  As in no one was better at it.  
 

Okay but we measure a player by production and Cook produced.  The argument that he didn’t have an impact is ludicrous.

And Allen being Allen has helped with that. 
 

Allen’s last throw of the season it was Browns man who planted him in the ground. He’s a good player that takes some bad penalties that kill drives. Without Allen, sack stats would not be where they are. Everyone who has watched can come to that conclusion 

[uticaclub]

20 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

He was #1 in the league, that’s how much of an improvement it was.  As in no one was better at it.  
 

Okay but we measure a player by production and Cook produced.  The argument that he didn’t have an impact is ludicrous.

When 0.5% separates the 1st and the 111th player, I’m not sure how useful the statistic is. Brown is definitely in the “Pro” column when it comes to evaluating Beane but to say he’s a top 5 all-around RT, is a bit of a stretch. I hope he gets even better next year and continues to improve, but he's not in that category yet. 

[Kelly to Allen]

3 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

😂😂😂 I want ONE other all pro in 7 years who will be on our roster next year

 

Best I can do is resign Jordan Phillips,🤪 and Nic McCloud 

Edited March 15 by Kelly to Allen

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Do you think another QB in the National Football League in 2024 carried their team more than Josh Allen did?

 

This question scared off @Royale with Cheese because he knew it was a kill shot. Let’s see if you cower too.

 

I would say that Burrow probably carried the Bengals more than Allen carried the Bills, but he was likely penalized in the voting because the Bengals had much less success than the Bills.  There's a significant gulf between a 9-8 non-playoff team and a 13-4 team that was the #2 seed in the playoffs. 

 

Burrow had two great WRs, but a mediocre OL, a poor running game (30th), and a horrendous defense early in the season.  Allen had significantly better protection than Burrow when passing (Allen was sacked only 14 times) because of the Bills OL, and the Bills had a much more successful running game (9th in yards, 1st with 32 rushing TDs), which was a result of, again, a significantly better offensive line and an outstanding RB in Cook as well as Allen's own running ability.  

 

Allen also benefited from a few spectacular plays that were played and re-played in the media, most notably his TD pass to himself in the snow in the Niners game as well as his big TD run against the Chiefs.   The only MVP finalist who had similar spectacular plays that were played over and over in the media was Barkley.

 

2 hours ago, uticaclub said:

That article provides no useful information. What were their votes based on? Why did voters consider Josh the MVP? They even mentioned how poor our wide receivers were last year. Yes, McGovern has been a solid player but even you have to admit, that there has been far more misses than hits. If you are hanging your hat on signing a useful center, you need to elevate your expectations.

 

What part of "no criteria" don't you understand?  Voters for the MVP were not given instructions about voting.  They were simply asked to vote for who they thought was the MVP.

 

Beane has had 39 draft picks between 2018 and 2022, including 6 first rounders and 5 second rounders.  23 of those draft picks turned into decent or better NFL players.   That's almost 60% of Beane's draftees from rounds 1-7 have been "hits".   Of the 6 first rounders, 1 was a bust, but 1 is a generational talent.  The others all became solid NFL starters.  Of the 5 second rounders, 2 were busts, 1 is a Pro Bowl RB who led the NFL in rushing TDs, and the others are solid NFLers.

 

McGovern isn't a "B player".  He's an A player, as are Dawkins and Brown.  Beane has always prioritized protecting Allen by investing team resources into the OL.  He's drafted at least 1 OLer in every one of his drafts except 2020.  Protecting your all world QB and enabling him to succeed should be every GM's top priority.

 

FTR, Taron Johnson was a 2nd team All Pro in 2023.  James Cook was a Pro Bowler in 2023 and 2024.  Stefon Diggs was a 4 time PBer for the Bills, including 1st team AP in 2020 and 2nd team AP in 2022.

[Mikie2times]

39 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I would say that Burrow probably carried the Bengals more than Allen carried the Bills, but he was likely penalized in the voting because the Bengals had much less success than the Bills.  There's a significant gulf between a 9-8 non-playoff team and a 13-4 team that was the #2 seed in the playoffs. 

 

Burrow had two great WRs, but a mediocre OL, a poor running game (30th), and a horrendous defense early in the season.  Allen had significantly better protection than Burrow when passing (Allen was sacked only 14 times) because of the Bills OL, and the Bills had a much more successful running game (9th in yards, 1st with 32 rushing TDs), which was a result of, again, a significantly better offensive line and an outstanding RB in Cook as well as Allen's own running ability.  

 

Allen also benefited from a few spectacular plays that were played and re-played in the media, most notably his TD pass to himself in the snow in the Niners game as well as his big TD run against the Chiefs.   The only MVP finalist who had similar spectacular plays that were played over and over in the media was Barkley.

 

 

What part of "no criteria" don't you understand?  Voters for the MVP were not given instructions about voting.  They were simply asked to vote for who they thought was the MVP.

 

Beane has had 39 draft picks between 2018 and 2022, including 6 first rounders and 5 second rounders.  23 of those draft picks turned into decent or better NFL players.   That's almost 60% of Beane's draftees from rounds 1-7 have been "hits".   Of the 6 first rounders, 1 was a bust, but 1 is a generational talent.  The others all became solid NFL starters.  Of the 5 second rounders, 2 were busts, 1 is a Pro Bowl RB who led the NFL in rushing TDs, and the others are solid NFLers.

 

McGovern isn't a "B player".  He's an A player, as are Dawkins and Brown.  Beane has always prioritized protecting Allen by investing team resources into the OL.  He's drafted at least 1 OLer in every one of his drafts except 2020.  Protecting your all world QB and enabling him to succeed should be every GM's top priority.

 

FTR, Taron Johnson was a 2nd team All Pro in 2023.  James Cook was a Pro Bowler in 2023 and 2024.  Stefon Diggs was a 4 time PBer for the Bills, including 1st team AP in 2020 and 2nd team AP in 2022.

All this puts us in 10-15 range in cumulative appearances in the NFL top 100, All Pro, and Pro Bowl lists. Regardless of its first, second, third teams which include hundreds of players. He’s a low “B” GM getting “A” grades from most here because Allen makes a lot of those guys you’re talking about look significantly better than they actually are. What would happen with Jared Goff behind this line. I can’t even imagine. 

Edited March 15 by Mikie2times

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

I would say that Burrow probably carried the Bengals more than Allen carried the Bills, but he was likely penalized in the voting because the Bengals had much less success than the Bills.  There's a significant gulf between a 9-8 non-playoff team and a 13-4 team that was the #2 seed in the playoffs. 

 

Burrow had two great WRs, but a mediocre OL, a poor running game (30th), and a horrendous defense early in the season.  Allen had significantly better protection than Burrow when passing (Allen was sacked only 14 times) because of the Bills OL, and the Bills had a much more successful running game (9th in yards, 1st with 32 rushing TDs), which was a result of, again, a significantly better offensive line and an outstanding RB in Cook as well as Allen's own running ability.  

 

Allen also benefited from a few spectacular plays that were played and re-played in the media, most notably his TD pass to himself in the snow in the Niners game as well as his big TD run against the Chiefs.   The only MVP finalist who had similar spectacular plays that were played over and over in the media was Barkley.

 

 

What part of "no criteria" don't you understand?  Voters for the MVP were not given instructions about voting.  They were simply asked to vote for who they thought was the MVP.

 

Beane has had 39 draft picks between 2018 and 2022, including 6 first rounders and 5 second rounders.  23 of those draft picks turned into decent or better NFL players.   That's almost 60% of Beane's draftees from rounds 1-7 have been "hits".   Of the 6 first rounders, 1 was a bust, but 1 is a generational talent.  The others all became solid NFL starters.  Of the 5 second rounders, 2 were busts, 1 is a Pro Bowl RB who led the NFL in rushing TDs, and the others are solid NFLers.

 

McGovern isn't a "B player".  He's an A player, as are Dawkins and Brown.  Beane has always prioritized protecting Allen by investing team resources into the OL.  He's drafted at least 1 OLer in every one of his drafts except 2020.  Protecting your all world QB and enabling him to succeed should be every GM's top priority.

 

FTR, Taron Johnson was a 2nd team All Pro in 2023.  James Cook was a Pro Bowler in 2023 and 2024.  Stefon Diggs was a 4 time PBer for the Bills, including 1st team AP in 2020 and 2nd team AP in 2022.

Carried them to what?

[Julio Hopkins]

5 hours ago, uticaclub said:

The sack allowed percentage is an interesting statistic. In 2022, even when he shouldn't have been on the field, he recorded a 0.77% sack allowed percentage. While this is an improvement, it doesn't accurately reflect how much he has actually improved during gameplay.

 

It's a statistic that ignores the fact that Josh Allen is one of the hardest QBs to sack in league history.

[Royale with Cheese]

18 hours ago, uticaclub said:

When 0.5% separates the 1st and the 111th player, I’m not sure how useful the statistic is. Brown is definitely in the “Pro” column when it comes to evaluating Beane but to say he’s a top 5 all-around RT, is a bit of a stretch. I hope he gets even better next year and continues to improve, but he's not in that category yet. 

What criteria are you using to determine that Brown wasn’t a top 5 RT last year?

 

We can’t use pressure percentage because that’s not useful.  What are you using because your evaluation is very firm Brown wasn’t anything more than solid.