DK Metcalf traded to the Pittsburgh Steelers

[GASabresIUFan]

3 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Well, I'm in the bummed group of missing out on DK.  I don't prescribe to the offense v defense battle and instead look at it from acquiring a top talent.  DK was, IMO, the most doable get out of the top bunch (Garrett/Crosby/Hendrickson/DK).  You would still do the D stuff, it was/is an allocation of resources.

 

Speaking of allocation of resources, weren't you a big pay Cook proponent?  I am now thinking Cooks importance has increased.  Any WR that I hope the Bills get will be of a lower tier, more short term, and lower cost than DK - C Kupp, A Cooper, D Slayton.   Beane needs to fix this Cook situation, the offense needs him (I would have preferred having DK and being cheap on RBs, but that ship has sailed).

I wrote earlier in this thread how much I like Metcalf and would love him on the Bills.  Sadly I agree that it was unlikely even before the recent trade.  
 

I also am a big believer in retaining Cook for the next few years.  I believe in retaining our drafted and developed players over FAs and trades.  I also agree with you on Cook’s importance to this team.  I suspect the Cook deal will get done.  
 

I further agree that Beane is probably looking at someone like Slayton if he goes the FA route.  I suspect, if he goes for FAs on defense, then WR goes up in importance in the draft.  Despite a smaller high end class vs last draft, I like Egbuka and Golden. I also am interested in Felton, Arian Smith, Kyle Williams and Bond.

 

There are a ton of dominos still to fall this offseason.  We need a starter at CB to replace Douglas. We need a starter at S to replace Hamlin and we likely need a starter at DE to replace Miller and upgrade AJE.  Lastly we also need someone to replace Cooper at WR.  
 

I’ll admit I really wanted Crosby or Garrett, but that isn’t how Beane operates.  He is a keep my guys GM and fill holes with value like McGovern and Douglas.  Going for Miller was an out of character move.  Sweat from Philly is the biggest DE prize in free agency, but I suspect someone like Koonce is who Beane will go after.

[Magox]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

That offense scored 30 points a game.  The offense isn’t the issue.  The defense is the issue (this is a recording).

 

There is no solid objective argument that anyone can make that the majority of resources that should be allotted to improve the team should be on offense over defense.  You are correct!  And it's not as if the offense stagnates in the playoffs, they still keep up with right around their regular season pace of scoring points.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Einstein's Dog]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

I wrote earlier in this thread how much I like Metcalf and would love him on the Bills.  Sadly I agree that it was unlikely even before the recent trade.  
 

I also am a big believer in retaining Cook for the next few years.  I believe in retaining our drafted and developed players over FAs and trades.  I also agree with you on Cook’s importance to this team.  I suspect the Cook deal will get done.  
 

I further agree that Beane is probably looking at someone like Slayton if he goes the FA route.  I suspect, if he goes for FAs on defense, then WR goes up in importance in the draft.  Despite a smaller high end class vs last draft, I like Egbuka and Golden. I also am interested in Felton, Arian Smith, Kyle Williams and Bond.

 

There are a ton of dominos still to fall this offseason.  We need a starter at CB to replace Douglas. We need a starter at S to replace Hamlin and we likely need a starter at DE to replace Miller and upgrade AJE.  Lastly we also need someone to replace Cooper at WR.  
 

I’ll admit I really wanted Crosby or Garrett, but that isn’t how Beane operates.  He is a keep my guys GM and fill holes with value like McGovern and Douglas.  Going for Miller was an out of character move.  Sweat from Philly is the biggest DE prize in free agency, but I suspect someone like Koonce is who Beane will go after.

I don't think anyone should hold missing out on Crosby or Garrett against Beane.  Their respective teams were not letting them go.  I don't think it's reasonable to think Hendrickson can come here either.  DK is different, that was a possibility that was chosen not to take.  The FO is going to allocate resources in a different manor, I can understand it, but would have been excited if it had happened.

 

I agree with almost all of your assessments.  My only issue would be if the FO tries to draft the WR instead of FA, that IMO would be a big mistake.  The Bills have a solid opportunity to vie for the #1 seed and you don't do that by filling in a starting WR position with a rookie.  We already have the Coleman/Hollins subpar grouping on one side, we need a starting caliber veteran WR on the other side.  I hope Beane isn't doing too much value hunting and we get shut out.  Get us a C Godwin/C Kupp/D Slayton or even maybe back to A Cooper. 

 

[SoonerBillsFan]

33 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

There is no solid objective argument that anyone can make that the majority of resources that should be allotted to improve the team should be on offense over defense.  You are correct!  And it's not as if the offense stagnates in the playoffs, they still keep up with right around their regular season pace of scoring points.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed. Upgrade this defense and we can win a superbowl 

[GASabresIUFan]

29 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I don't think anyone should hold missing out on Crosby or Garrett against Beane.  Their respective teams were not letting them go.  I don't think it's reasonable to think Hendrickson can come here either.  DK is different, that was a possibility that was chosen not to take.  The FO is going to allocate resources in a different manor, I can understand it, but would have been excited if it had happened.

 

I agree with almost all of your assessments.  My only issue would be if the FO tries to draft the WR instead of FA, that IMO would be a big mistake.  The Bills have a solid opportunity to vie for the #1 seed and you don't do that by filling in a starting WR position with a rookie.  We already have the Coleman/Hollins subpar grouping on one side, we need a starting caliber veteran WR on the other side.  I hope Beane isn't doing too much value hunting and we get shut out.  Get us a C Godwin/C Kupp/D Slayton or even maybe back to A Cooper. 

 

I don't hold missing Crosby or Garrett against Beane.  I just wanted a dominate DE playing opposite of Groot and still believe that getting someone as good as Groot or better to play opposite of Groot is the Bills biggest offseason priority even above CB.  We need to make QBs uncomfortable in the pocket on a more regular basis.  My the way Mack just signed a 1 year 18 mill deal with LAC. 

One question we need to answer about the boundary WR position is what do we really need from that player to make the offense better.  I believe we’ll get some improvement just from a healthy Kincaid and some maturity from Coleman.  So do we need a 1200 yard guy or a guy who’ll give us 7-800 yards but stretch the defense making more room for Shakir and Kincaid to work?  If we want the latter, then someone like Slayton fits the bill, but so does draftees like Bond and Golden.  One under the radar FA is Elijah Moore.

 

Edited Monday at 03:41 PM by GASabresIUFan

[Einstein's Dog]

37 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

I don't hold missing Crosby or Garrett against Beane.  I just wanted a dominate DE playing opposite of Groot and still believe that getting someone as good as Groot or better to play opposite of Groot is the Bills biggest offseason priority even above CB.  We need to make QBs uncomfortable in the pocket on a more regular basis.  My the way Mack just signed a 1 year 18 mill deal with LAC. 

One question we need to answer about the boundary WR position is what do we really need from that player to make the offense better.  I believe we’ll get some improvement just from a healthy Kincaid and some maturity from Coleman.  So do we need a 1200 yard guy or a guy who’ll give us 7-800 yards but stretch the defense making more room for Shakir and Kincaid to work?  If we want the latter, then someone like Slayton fits the bill, but so does draftees like Bond and Golden.  One under the radar FA is Elijah Moore.

 

The DE market looks like it's dwindling fast - the Bills could really use one.

 

As for WR one element you didn't include was cost - I think the budget is a huge factor.  I don't think they need a 1200 guy and I don't think it necessarily has to be a stretch guy.   I think they are looking for about a $15M budget fit.

 

Guys with good hands and catch rates are important in the "everyone eats" world.  That's why I think C Kupp is a possibility.  A lot of people think he is redundant as primarily a slot which they think we are loaded at, but I disagree.  If Shakir goes down, the Bills are in trouble IMO.  The void is not covered by Kincaid (TE, not been used at slot) or Coleman (has not been used at slot).

[bearstobills]

3 hours ago, Jerboski said:

The chiefs are not our model and shouldn’t be 

 

we don’t have a HC like they do nor do we draft as well as they do. You can’t beat the chiefs by trying to be the chiefs 

 

we have proven that more than any team in the league 

 

props to Philly for actually going for it and taking swings 

I am not on board with you on the draft.  Beane, imo, gets cherry picked for his misses and rarely celebrated for his hits.  Yet fans semi-blindly are under the impression that teams like the Chiefs knock it out of the park.  CEH was an awful first round pick, and if Beane would have done it, he would be flamed relentlessly.  How's Felix Aundike Uzomah working out for them?  He's shaping up to be their Kair Elam.  And Skyy Moore in the 2nd?? And trading a 3rd for Kadarius Toney.  They hit on Trey Smith in the 6th just like we hit on Benford.  They jumped us for Mcduffy.  And they were smart enough to take a center we didn't need at the end of the 2nd.  Good on them for Bolton.  And of course there's the Worthy trade, and the jury is still out on that, although of course that's looking good for them.  But I don't think they draft any better than us.  The two first round whiffs alone are egregious.  

[bearstobills]

4 hours ago, Jerboski said:

Maybe DK wasn’t the right or maybe he was… what I can’t understand about your logic is running it back, why does that make sense? They have tried running it back for multiple years with the same results: Sean gets outcoached by the chiefs/or nobody steps up outside of Allen really to make a clutch play.. we have seen this what three times now, so yeah I’m not an advocate of running it back because I already know what the outcome will be so do you. 
 

The goal is not to make the afc championship game, we have done that for years. It’s to actually win the Super Bowl while you have a guy like Josh Allen. I see no reason why to run it back when it hasn’t been good enough for years, you have to take chances like the eagles and rams have done 

 

the chiefs are a better coached team than you, and they draft better than you and they actually have guys who step up for Mahomes time after time in the playoffs. We don’t, so you have to do something different 

We see sports differently.  The Bills' goal is of course to win a super bowl. But that's hard.  Should they move on from McD?  That's a legitimately good question.  I tend to think yes, but I'm also fully aware that wholesale changes can be dangerous.  None of this is easy.  But I think Beane is a top GM in the league, and his teams continually compete at the highest level.  The Bengals haven't been to the playoffs the last two years with an elite QB, two elite receivers, and a DE who every Bills fan wants.  Each year is different, so I don't see your "running it back" theme.  They completely uprooted the team last year, rebuilt their entire receiving core.  And they were the 2nd best offense in football (behind the Lions who we beat).  The Cooper trade was a clear "go for it" move on the level of the Rams bringing in an aging Von Miller for half a season.

 

No GM can win a title by himself.  So much has to happen to be the 1 team out of 32 that is left standing at the end.  And the idea that the Bills or Beane are failures because they haven't found that perfect storm of elements (which includes luck) is absurd to me.    To use each championship run (like the Rams or Chiefs) to nitpick and say "Why don't we just do that?" completely dismisses the nuances, intricacy, and specificity of each team's unique situation, and the opportunities in front of them.  My guess is that as long as the Bills have Allen and Beane, they'll figure out at least 1 title.  And the rest of the league will scream, "Why don't we just do what the Bills did?"

 

[Jerboski]

6 hours ago, bearstobills said:

I am not on board with you on the draft.  Beane, imo, gets cherry picked for his misses and rarely celebrated for his hits.  Yet fans semi-blindly are under the impression that teams like the Chiefs knock it out of the park.  CEH was an awful first round pick, and if Beane would have done it, he would be flamed relentlessly.  How's Felix Aundike Uzomah working out for them?  He's shaping up to be their Kair Elam.  And Skyy Moore in the 2nd?? And trading a 3rd for Kadarius Toney.  They hit on Trey Smith in the 6th just like we hit on Benford.  They jumped us for Mcduffy.  And they were smart enough to take a center we didn't need at the end of the 2nd.  Good on them for Bolton.  And of course there's the Worthy trade, and the jury is still out on that, although of course that's looking good for them.  But I don't think they draft any better than us.  The two first round whiffs alone are egregious.  

Karlaftis 

Rice 

 

beane has been really good in the mid rounds… the first round and second outside of Allen, Oliver and cook who has he hit on 

 

Elam bust 

Cody bust 

AJ - meh 

Kincaid - not looking like a great pick 

Greg - that one is decent, not a homerun but not a failure 

Coleman - I don’t see it, slow guy who doesn’t seperate, hope to be wrong 

 

I’m probably missing some but that doesn’t leave me feeling great about beane just magically finding the pieces we need in the draft at DL, he literally has Oliver to his name that has really got after it on the DL, everyone else is meh or decent at best 

 

I’ll take the chiefs drafting department over ours any day, they hit The spots they needed to win multiple super bowls… what else needs to be said, and send us home 4 times 

6 hours ago, bearstobills said:

We see sports differently.  The Bills' goal is of course to win a super bowl. But that's hard.  Should they move on from McD?  That's a legitimately good question.  I tend to think yes, but I'm also fully aware that wholesale changes can be dangerous.  None of this is easy.  But I think Beane is a top GM in the league, and his teams continually compete at the highest level.  The Bengals haven't been to the playoffs the last two years with an elite QB, two elite receivers, and a DE who every Bills fan wants.  Each year is different, so I don't see your "running it back" theme.  They completely uprooted the team last year, rebuilt their entire receiving core.  And they were the 2nd best offense in football (behind the Lions who we beat).  The Cooper trade was a clear "go for it" move on the level of the Rams bringing in an aging Von Miller for half a season.

 

No GM can win a title by himself.  So much has to happen to be the 1 team out of 32 that is left standing at the end.  And the idea that the Bills or Beane are failures because they haven't found that perfect storm of elements (which includes luck) is absurd to me.    To use each championship run (like the Rams or Chiefs) to nitpick and say "Why don't we just do that?" completely dismisses the nuances, intricacy, and specificity of each team's unique situation, and the opportunities in front of them.  My guess is that as long as the Bills have Allen and Beane, they'll figure out at least 1 title.  And the rest of the league will scream, "Why don't we just do what the Bills did?"

 

I agree with you on Sean, I think it’s time for a change 

 

I disagree on beane, I like beane but you have to take shots at this point in Allen’s career, similar to what the rams and eagles have shown… I don’t I care about the cap 3 or 4 years from now, you are in win now mode desperation. Or should be 

[Thrivefourfive]

50 minutes ago, Jerboski said:

Karlaftis 

Rice 

 

beane has been really good in the mid rounds… the first round and second outside of Allen, Oliver and cook who has he hit on 

 

Elam bust 

Cody bust 

AJ - meh 

Kincaid - not looking like a great pick 

Greg - that one is decent, not a homerun but not a failure 

Coleman - I don’t see it, slow guy who doesn’t seperate, hope to be wrong 

 

I’m probably missing some but that doesn’t leave me feeling great about beane just magically finding the pieces we need in the draft at DL, he literally has Oliver to his name that has really got after it on the DL, everyone else is meh or decent at best 

 

I’ll take the chiefs drafting department over ours any day, they hit The spots they needed to win multiple super bowls… what else needs to be said, and send us home 4 times 

I agree with you on Sean, I think it’s time for a change 

 

I disagree on beane, I like beane but you have to take shots at this point in Allen’s career, similar to what the rams and eagles have shown… I don’t I care about the cap 3 or 4 years from now, you are in win now mode desperation. Or should be 

But since McDermott isn’t going anywhere, like ever, because Josh wins so many games, Beane is the only one that can go. Realistically speaking. 

[Jerboski]

Just now, Thrivefourfive said:

But since McDermott isn’t going anywhere, like ever, because Josh wins so many games, Beane is the only one that can go. Realistically speaking. 

For the record, I think beane has done a better job than Sean has.. if one is to go, it should be Sean 

[Thrivefourfive]

I just hope we understand that getting more B players on defense isn’t the answer. It’s not. B player loses to A player in the playoffs in crunch time. Pretty much every time. We’d have a better chance with two A players and a bunch of Cs and Bs scattered about. The two dudes get the sack, the interception, the forced fumble, etc. Wanna see what the B guys do in the biggest games? See the Bills last five playoff loses. 

42 minutes ago, Jerboski said:

For the record, I think beane has done a better job than Sean has.. if one is to go, it should be Sean 

For me it’s more of a coin flip, but I’ll side with because I like you. 
 

But we can’t imagine any scenario where McDermott is fired and Beane survives, right? 

[Jerboski]

4 minutes ago, Thrivefourfive said:

I just hope we understand that getting more B players on defense isn’t the answer. It’s not. B player loses to A player in the playoffs in crunch time. Pretty much every time. We’d have a better chance with two A players and a bunch of Cs and Bs scattered about. The two dudes get the sack, the interception, the forced fumble, etc. Wanna see what the B guys do in the biggest games? See the Bills last five playoff loses. 

For me it’s more of a coin flip, but I’ll side with because I like you. 
 

But we can’t imagine any scenario where McDermott is fired and Beane survives, right? 

I don’t think Buffalo will fire either but if i was the decision maker this is it for Sean… get Past yhr chiefs, and deliver or time to move on, im not wasting this opportunity with Allen 

[Thrivefourfive]

21 minutes ago, Jerboski said:

I don’t think Buffalo will fire either but if i was the decision maker this is it for Sean… get Past yhr chiefs, and deliver or time to move on, im not wasting this opportunity with Allen 

I agree with doing more. This thing has to play out. If I hear you, you think the most likely outcome for Sean and Beane is a SB Trophy? I’m all for believing in that.

 

But if it doesn’t go that way, how’s it end? Both at the same time? I just can’t be made to believe McDermott won’t be the last man standing. Everything he’s done while in Buffalo has lead up to one of the most secure HC jobs in the entire league. He’s entrenched. Hope that’s not his only worth while “coaching tree” legacy (how to not get fired, ever). 

[Low Positive]

8 minutes ago, Thrivefourfive said:

I agree with doing more. This thing has to play out. If I hear you, you think the most likely outcome for Sean and Beane is a SB Trophy? I’m all for believing in that.

 

But if it doesn’t go that way, how’s it end? Both at the same time? I just can’t be made to believe McDermott won’t be the last man standing. Everything he’s done while in Buffalo has lead up to one of the most secure HC jobs in the entire league. He’s entrenched. Hope that’s not his only worth while “coaching tree” legacy (how to not get fired, ever). 

The only time that I can think of a coach being fired after a long playoff run is John Fox in Denver. But then the replacement was on the staff as DC (Fangio). Find me another coach who was fired after a divisional or championship game loss. If you want McDermott fired, you have to wish for a non-playoff season. 

[Thrivefourfive]

4 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

The only time that I can think of a coach being fired after a long playoff run is John Fox in Denver. But then the replacement was on the staff as DC (Fangio). Find me another coach who was fired after a divisional or championship game loss. If you want McDermott fired, you have to wish for a non-playoff season. 

Im not blind to it ☺️ I know what it is. It’s my point 😊. You agree: of the two, Beane goes. 
 

Sean would never allow a potential replacement become a threat to his job. Unless you’ve got some empirical evidence against it. 
 

Edited yesterday at 02:44 AM by Thrivefourfive

[MikePJ76]

3 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

The only time that I can think of a coach being fired after a long playoff run is John Fox in Denver. But then the replacement was on the staff as DC (Fangio). Find me another coach who was fired after a divisional or championship game loss. If you want McDermott fired, you have to wish for a non-playoff season. 

Well Tony dungy.

 

then he did the same thing with the colts until they finally got over the hump and beat the bears in 06.

 

then they somehow put Tony dungy in the Hall of fame.

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, Thrivefourfive said:

Im not blind to it ☺️ I know what it is. It’s my point 😊. You agree: of the two, Beane goes. 

They're tied at the hip. Either both go or neither. You want that kind of change, root for losses next year. 

1 minute ago, MikePJ76 said:

Well Tony dungy.

 

then he did the same thing with the colts until they finally got over the hump and beat the bears in 06.

 

then they somehow put Tony dungy in the Hall of fame.

He lost a WC game in his last year in Tampa. McDermott hasn't lost a WC game since 2019. 

[MikePJ76]

7 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

They're tied at the hip. Either both go or neither. You want that kind of change, root for losses next year. 

He lost a WC game in his last year in Tampa. McDermott hasn't lost a WC game since 2019. 

Was it a wild card game?  I always remember it as a loss in the championship game at Philly.

[Thrivefourfive]

2 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

They're tied at the hip. Either both go or neither. You want that kind of change, root for losses next year. 

I got McDermott letting Beane walk. 
 

So this whole thing better work out. Beane sure has put in a lot of time. Hope both can get this done.