Free Agency Rumor Thread

[The Jokeman]

17 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m not going to MMQB it because I liked the Kincaid pick at the time (or at least didn’t hate it). With the benefit of hindsight though, both Rice and Puka are far superior players. 

Rice who missed most if not of the season? Puka was a major hit by the Rams I don't think anyone would have bet on him being that good. 

[BADOLBILZ]

18 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m not going to MMQB it because I liked the Kincaid pick at the time (or at least didn’t hate it). With the benefit of hindsight though, both Rice and Puka are far superior players. 

 

 

I liked the Kincaid pick too.   But he has sucked.   I suspected they knew more about him as a competitor than I do.   When talking about Coleman's poor finish to the season they mentioned that at least he is going into the offseason knowing he hasn't made it yet unlike what some players do who have modest success early.   They were obviously implying that Dalton Kincaid thought he had arrived as a rookie and didn't understand just how much harder he was going to have to work simply not to regress, let alone improve from his modest start.

5 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Rice who missed most if not of the season? Puka was a major hit by the Rams I don't think anyone would have bet on him being that good. 

 

 

I mean........Puka set the NFL record for receiving yards as a rookie.   That's like a Bears fan saying "yeah, but if we didn't pick Trubisky which QB would you have taken?". 😂

[Doc Brown]

38 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

and which outside WR drafted after Kincaid would have been a better pick in 2023?  As I want to know the stud we missed out on.

Beane would never trade up a few spots for someone like Zay Flowers or Jordan Addison.  Loves his 4th round picks too much.

[Herc11]

29 minutes ago, Homelander said:

 

Speaking of Cleveland:

 

 

Looks like a giant barn

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

Beane would never trade up a few spots for someone like Zay Flowers or Jordan Addison.  Loves his 4th round picks too much.

I actually think the reporting out there was Beane did try to get up for Addison. He failed, but he did try.

 

Its unfortunately a little bit of a shame, but Kincaid wasn't really a guy who fit even a 12 personnel system. Having two TE's that can block and catch would kind of be what you want.

 

Combine that with the fact our best WR is a slot WR that requires 11 personnel, and you have Kincaid trapped in no-man's land.

[Doc Brown]

8 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I actually think the reporting out there was Beane did try to get up for Addison. He failed, but he did try.

 

Its unfortunately a little bit of a shame, but Kincaid wasn't really a guy who fit even a 12 personnel system. Having two TE's that can block and catch would kind of be what you want.

 

Combine that with the fact our best WR is a slot WR that requires 11 personnel, and you have Kincaid trapped in no-man's land.

What reports out of curiosity? 

[Kirby Jackson]

34 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Rice who missed most if not of the season? Puka was a major hit by the Rams I don't think anyone would have bet on him being that good. 

Rice had 79 for 938 and 7 TDs as a rookie. Last year, he was off to a monster start. He caught 24 balls in 4 games!! That’s a pace of 102 catches, 1,224 and 8 TDs. He looks like a star if he can stay out of trouble. Neither Kincaid, nor Coleman, have shown anywhere near that level. In fact, I’d trade them both, tomorrow, for Rice (assuming no suspension and healthy) or Puka. 

[ddaryl]

35 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Knox has been criticized aplenty on TSW.   It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise.   Not sure what you think the links you posted represent but it's apples and oranges.  Knox is a real, inline TE.   And still.......when targeted he has been WAY more effective than Kincaid.   He just isn't put out in the route every snap like Kincaid was as a rookie.   Your bulk catch/yard stats don't show that Allen has had a much higher passer rating when targeting the more dynamic Knox.  

 

Kincaid was the first TE the Bills ever drafted to not actually play TE.   That's the only reason why he has one of the most modest and unimpressive team records on the books.   He was nothing more than a slot receiver as a rookie and his production was high volume and toothless.  

 

When Cole Beasley flamed out in 2021 he could still play patty-cake with the QB in front of the sticks like Kincaid has.  Caught the same 82 passes as in 2020 but for almost 300 less total yards.  11.8 ypc down to 8.5.   He could not get past the sticks consistently with RAC like he had in prior years when he had some spring left in his legs.  Kincaid has that same malady and he was only 24 and 25 in his first 2 seasons not washed and old like Cole.   He is two years in and STILL averages less than 10 yards per grab for his career and has a knack for not being able to fight for the extra yardage to move the chains.  

 

With Kincaid not getting the job done in the slot they tried to diversify his role and have him play some TE and he didn't respond well to a more physical role.  His hands  became suspect and he couldn't catch a contested pass to save his life.   He is a talented athlete but has proven thus far to be way too soft for the job he is needed to do and has been a huge disappointment.   And McBeane were basically saying the same thing I am when they were critical of him after the season.

 he needs to improve, and I believe when we drafted him lots people said he would be like a slot WR for us. Still don't understand the ad nauseum of calling him out like so many do on this board. Also "Huge Dissapointment" is defnitely not where I am for him. He is a 2nd year player who fought through an injury. 

I expect him to be better and get bettter, and feel there are other places to focus our angst on this team. 

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

What reports out of curiosity? 

On 4/29/2023 at 3:31 AM, Alphadawg7 said:

Jordan Addison was their first and primary target in which they tried at least twice to trade up for him.  He was their highest graded WR in the draft.

• I have a source that confirms to me that one of the teams were the Chargers but were rebuffed as they were all in on Quentin Johnston.
• I don't know who the other team(s) was, but it was presumably after the Chargers because they said we "first tried to get him at the Chargers pick".

 

Now @Alphadawg7 and @HappyDays are a lot of things, but they aren't liars I think

[OldTimer1960]

8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Rice had 79 for 938 and 7 TDs as a rookie. Last year, he was off to a monster start. He caught 24 balls in 4 games!! That’s a pace of 102 catches, 1,224 and 8 TDs. He looks like a star if he can stay out of trouble. Neither Kincaid, nor Coleman, have shown anywhere near that level. In fact, I’d trade them both, tomorrow, for Rice (assuming no suspension and healthy) or Puka. 

And there is the rub- staying out of trouble.  That 100 m.p.h. debacle shows gross immaturity.  We can't know what the teams have learned about draft candidate's intelligence, work ethic and character - teams invest a lot looking into this stuff.  Maybe teams knew that Rice was a risk on character/decision making and that's why he slid to KC.  When he has been on the field, he has produced, but like with Marcel Darius talent alone doesn't always win.

[The Jokeman]

15 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Rice had 79 for 938 and 7 TDs as a rookie. Last year, he was off to a monster start. He caught 24 balls in 4 games!! That’s a pace of 102 catches, 1,224 and 8 TDs. He looks like a star if he can stay out of trouble. Neither Kincaid, nor Coleman, have shown anywhere near that level. In fact, I’d trade them both, tomorrow, for Rice (assuming no suspension and healthy) or Puka. 

Hard to get 79 catches when most targets Kincaid or Coleman ever got was 71 in a season. I'll say this over and over on Rice/Worthy's production look at what else Mahomes was throwing to. Guys like Mecole Hardman, Justin Watson, Skyy Moore are guys that likely not even be close to making our top 5 WRs yet they were depth guys for KC and maybe why Rice/Worthy got a lions share of targets. You mention want Rice if he avoids suspension it seems most think he will do that leaves you with Nuca. Great pick by Rams but yeah man gotta say we missed on him but then again so did Veach but I know he a much better GM than Beane. 

[mjt328]

19 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

And it is definitely, definitely Dalton Kincaid. 
 

How dare a player, who shattered rookie records, maybe still need to develop. 

 

Shattered rookie records?  Let's tone down that narrative a bit.

He was 4th in catches and 10th in yards for a rookie Tight End... meaning he didn't break any records, much less shatter them.

 

I'm all for giving a player at least 3 years to develop.  But so far, the returns are very underwhelming.  That cannot be disputed.

 

He's provided virtually nothing as a Red Zone threat with only 4 touchdowns in his first two seasons.

He's provided almost nothing downfield either, with a pretty pathetic 9.6 YPC (which would rank him around 150th in the NFL last year).

His hands/reliability haven't been bad, but he did drop the pass that ended our season.  Not exactly a great lasting memory going into the offseason.

 

[LLCoolCy]

there’s still only 32 teams, right? 
 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

45 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Hard to get 79 catches when most targets Kincaid or Coleman ever got was 71 in a season. I'll say this over and over on Rice/Worthy's production look at what else Mahomes was throwing to. Guys like Mecole Hardman, Justin Watson, Skyy Moore are guys that likely not even be close to making our top 5 WRs yet they were depth guys for KC and maybe why Rice/Worthy got a lions share of targets. You mention want Rice if he avoids suspension it seems most think he will do that leaves you with Nuca. Great pick by Rams but yeah man gotta say we missed on him but then again so did Veach but I know he a much better GM than Beane. 

I’m not sure that the bold strengthens the case against Rice/Worthy. It further adds to the point that those guys put up numbers despite having those guys not scaring anyone. Kincaid and Coleman not getting a lot of targets is as much a function of their ability to get open as it is the scheme. It’s an indictment on both of them. Coleman caught 10 of his last 29 targets!! That’s insanely bad. Rice and Worthy get the ball because they get open. 

Edited March 18 by Kirby Jackson

[Einstein's Dog]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I liked the Kincaid pick too.   But he has sucked.   I suspected they knew more about him as a competitor than I do.   When talking about Coleman's poor finish to the season they mentioned that at least he is going into the offseason knowing he hasn't made it yet unlike what some players do who have modest success early.   They were obviously implying that Dalton Kincaid thought he had arrived as a rookie and didn't understand just how much harder he was going to have to work simply not to regress, let alone improve from his modest start.

 

 

I mean........Puka set the NFL record for receiving yards as a rookie.   That's like a Bears fan saying "yeah, but if we didn't pick Trubisky which QB would you have taken?". 😂

Puka was selected in the 5th round - anyone could have had him.  The comparison isn't Trubisky but T Brady.

 

As for Dalton Kincaid he is an extremely fluid player with great hands.  He played through injuries last year, it in no way means he's toast.  He does need to add strength - he and Coleman have been told as much - and the strength and conditioning coach has been replaced.

 

The idea of trading Kincaid is insane.  The Bills finally have a very good TE room, probably their best ever, and people want to tear it down.

[sunshynman]

1 hour ago, Herc11 said:

Looks like a giant barn

Looks like *****! But it has a roof. 

[BillsFanForever19]

9 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

As for Dalton Kincaid he is an extremely fluid player with great hands.  He played through injuries last year, it in no way means he's toast.  He does need to add strength - he and Coleman have been told as much - and the strength and conditioning coach has been replaced.

 

The idea of trading Kincaid is insane.  The Bills finally have a very good TE room, probably their best ever, and people want to tear it down.

 

The truth is somewhere between his take of "he's truly sucked so far" and your take that he's a player with "great hands" and that he and Knox make for a "very good TE room".

 

He's done some good things. He's done some bad things. Combined with injuries, he hasn't lived up to his billing when we Drafted him.

 

That doesn't mean that he can't become that player in Year 3 or Year 4. That combined with the fact that we didn't make any vast improvements in the pass catching area (Cooper and Hollins out, just Palmer in), I lean towards keeping him. And I definitely think he's going to be here. But if someone were to offer us something of significance for him that would improve our team even in losing him, i'd certainly be open to it.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

 

Shattered rookie records?  Let's tone down that narrative a bit.

He was 4th in catches and 10th in yards for a rookie Tight End... meaning he didn't break any records, much less shatter them.

 

I'm all for giving a player at least 3 years to develop.  But so far, the returns are very underwhelming.  That cannot be disputed.

 

He's provided virtually nothing as a Red Zone threat with only 4 touchdowns in his first two seasons.

He's provided almost nothing downfield either, with a pretty pathetic 9.6 YPC (which would rank him around 150th in the NFL last year).

His hands/reliability haven't been bad, but he did drop the pass that ended our season.  Not exactly a great lasting memory going into the offseason.

 

He obviously didn't shatter any NFL rookie records, I was referring to Bills rookie records. 

[HappyDays]

29 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

As for Dalton Kincaid he is an extremely fluid player with great hands.  He played through injuries last year, it in no way means he's toast.  He does need to add strength - he and Coleman have been told as much - and the strength and conditioning coach has been replaced.

 

But the injuries don't explain what I believe was the bigger problem which was his cerebral game. He does not have natural instincts for reading a defense and making himself available to his QB IMO. He runs past zone windows, he doesn't properly adjust routes, he drifts away from where his leverage should take him. That is the part of his game I am more concerned with. Sure he can get stronger and separate a little better in man coverage, but he isn't going to become our version of Kelce unless he can read the defense as well as Kelce does. I think that's why we were using him on nothing but basic route concepts in shallow areas by the end of the season, because they didn't trust him to be where he was supposed to be downfield. Knox is by no means an elite player but when Allen looked at him he was where Allen expected and the higher efficency on those targets speaks to this.

[Dr. Who]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

But the injuries don't explain what I believe was the bigger problem which was his cerebral game. He does not have natural instincts for reading a defense and making himself available to his QB IMO. He runs past zone windows, he doesn't properly adjust routes, he drifts away from where his leverage should take him. That is the part of his game I am more concerned with. Sure he can get stronger and separate a little better in man coverage, but he isn't going to become our version of Kelce unless he can read the defense as well as Kelce does. I think that's why we were using him on nothing but basic route concepts in shallow areas by the end of the season, because they didn't trust him to be where he was supposed to be downfield. Knox is by no means an elite player but when Allen looked at him he was where Allen expected and the higher efficency on those targets speaks to this.

Well, if he doesn't have the mental cabbage to process at NFL speeds, it's a problem that won't get fixed. I was very happy when we drafted him, and I'm hoping it's more injuries than that, but I can't say I'm confident about it.