Von Released, Frees Up $8.4M Cap Space

[mjt328]

18 hours ago, Success said:

I mean, most here were thrilled when we made the move - it was aggressive, and addressed our area of biggest need.  If you were opposed to it, I'd have to say that was in the minority opinion at that time.

 

And he was great that 1st season until he got hurt.  More bad luck than bad decision.

 

By my recollection, opinions were actually pretty mixed at the moment Miller was signed.

Some loved Beane swinging for the fences.  Some felt it was foolish to spend that much on an aging player with an injury history.

 

Year 1 it was looking like a homerun decision by the Bills.  8 sacks in 11 games.  He really seemed like the missing piece in our pass rush.

Then the ACL tear happened on Thanksgiving, and everything changed.

 

Year 2 he was completely awful trying to recover.  Plus the legal issues in the offseason.  Most of the fanbase wanted him cut.

Year 3 he was OK.  Made some plays, but really wasn't a consistent force.  Outside of the fumble recovery, Miller did almost nothing in the postseason.

 

Anyone who supported the move is going to cling to those first 11 games, and say the move would have been brilliant if not for the injury (which nobody could have predicted).  Anyone who was against the signing will point out how injury risk should have been factored in, considering his past and age.  At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter if Beane was smart or stupid.  It was just another bust for us that didn't work out.

 

[Low Positive]

Von went from the biggest FA signing in team history to his release being pinned at TBD for less than 48 hours. 

[JohnNord]

42 minutes ago, notpolian said:

This is the right move.  Draft and maybe FA, but I'm not holding my breath on FA.

 

Three years ago, signing an older elite edge rusher such as Von was seemed like a good idea, but time and his injury history just made the cost too high for the risk.  It didn't work.

 

Here is something to rile you up.  Was the Bills defense better with Von or with Jerry Hughes? 

 

Don't make this mistake again.

If you watched the first 11 games of 2022, you’d know the Bills defense was better with a healthy Von than they were with a healthy Jerry Hughes his last two seasons.  
 

If you’re comparing a healthy Jerry Hughes to  a post ACL Von Miller, it’s not really an equitable comparison.  

[JohnNord]

8 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

By my recollection, opinions were actually pretty mixed at the moment Miller was signed.

Some loved Beane swinging for the fences.  Some felt it was foolish to spend that much on an aging player with an injury history.

 

Year 1 it was looking like a homerun decision by the Bills.  8 sacks in 11 games.  He really seemed like the missing piece in our pass rush.

Then the ACL tear happened on Thanksgiving, and everything changed.

 

Year 2 he was completely awful trying to recover.  Plus the legal issues in the offseason.  Most of the fanbase wanted him cut.

Year 3 he was OK.  Made some plays, but really wasn't a consistent force.  Outside of the fumble recovery, Miller did almost nothing in the postseason.

 

Anyone who supported the move is going to cling to those first 11 games, and say the move would have been brilliant if not for the injury (which nobody could have predicted).  Anyone who was against the signing will point out how injury risk should have been factored in, considering his past and age.  At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter if Beane was smart or stupid.  It was just another bust for us that didn't work out.

 

I disagree with you on the reaction to Von.  There was some concern about his age as well as the size of his contract, but the discussion was never about an injury history.   This is revisionist history.  
 

If you look at media coverage from a national and local perspective, most people loved the signing.  Again, some concern about age/contract but the general consensus was “the Bills are taking a big swing to get their closer.”

 

That’s the thing… they needed to take that big swing.  There’s a ton on nuance in this decision that you are choosing to leaving out 

[Mister Defense]

39 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I disagree with you on the reaction to Von.  There was some concern about his age as well as the size of his contract, but the discussion was never about an injury history.   This is revisionist history.  
 

If you look at media coverage from a national and local perspective, most people loved the signing.  Again, some concern about age/contract but the general consensus was “the Bills are taking a big swing to get their closer.”

 

That’s the thing… they needed to take that big swing.  There’s a ton on nuance in this decision that you are choosing to leaving out 

 

Well, it is not revisionist history, was how I saw it at the time of the Miller signing, and also true for others! it is fine if that is the way you see it now, but some saw it differently. Correctly.  So what you say is the actual revisionist history, inaccurate. Stating it emphatically as you do does not make it real.

 

Teams not concerned with the fact that Milller was older than almost all high level pass rushers when signed, at 32, and turning 33 soon,, and who would be 37 at the end of the contract,  who had a major injury just two seasons prior causing him to miss most of the season, and was a player whose game was based on his high end speed and athleticism would be very negligent in my book.  How could they not be concerned?

 

What you say, that it is revisionist history, is like saying those believing the Russel Wilson trade to Denver, or the Rodgers trade to the Jets, were good things, significant positives for their new teams, was the definitive consensus. It was not. Just look on this forum for reactions at the time the trades happened.

 

While those trades were, for some odd reasons, generally praised by the media overall, there were many who thought they would be disasters for both teams, with no hope of success.. Some of us saw beyond the 'consensus' and called those trades the team killing moves they were--at the time they happened.

 

Sour grapes to call out those with the correct takes on such awful moves when they happened. They were  right, saw them for what they were, just like the Miller signing. Going along with the crowd's views on everything is not a great way to make decisions.

 

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 01:55 PM by Mister Defense

[JohnNord]

19 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

Well, it is not revisionist history, was how I saw it at the time of the trade, and I assume true for others! it is fine if that is the way you see it now, but some saw it differently. Correctly.  So what you say is the revisionist history, inaccurate.

 

Teams not concerned with the fact that Milller was older than almost all high level pass rushers when signed, at 32, and would be 36+ at the end of the contract,  who had a major injury just two seasons prior, causing him to miss most of the season, and was a player whose game was based on his high end speed and athleticism would be very negligent in my book.  How could they not be concerned?

 

What you say, that it is revisionist history, it is like saying those believing the Russel Wilson trade to Denver, or the Rodgers trade to the Jets, were good things, significant positives for their new teams, was the definitive consensus. It was not. 

 

While those trades were, for some odd reasons, generally praised by the media overall, there were many who thought they would be disasters for both teams, with no hope of success.. Some of us saw beyond the 'consensus' and called those trades the team killing moves they were--at the time they happened.

 

Sour grapes to call out those with the correct takes on such awful moves when they happened. They were correct, saw them for what they were, just like the Miller trade. Going along with the crowd's views on everything is not a great way to make decisions.

 

 

 

 

Ok then show me evidence about the injury concerns about Von Miller in 2022.  

Where are all of the people who were concerned about Von’s injury history?

 

Age? Yes

Contract? Yes

Injury History?  No

 

Here’s my evidence.  Dr. Kyle Trimble had this to say about Von’s injury history on 3/19/22:

 

What a signing! General manager Brandon Beane identified the shortcomings of last year’s team and did everything in his power to address any remaining weaknesses with this signing. I understand there are concerns regarding his age and the contract length, but Von Miller continues to produce at a high level no matter the season. 
 

Miller has won everywhere he’s been and has shown the ability to be an effective leader in the locker room. Looking at his snap counts, he was routinely playing over 80% of the defensive snaps over multiple years, still producing at an elite level. Placed into the Buffalo Bills’ defensive line rotation may mean a reduction in snaps, and it may also allow him to stay fresher and potentially avoid injury. This could be a huge year for the team and Miller.

 

The only injury concern I have is the dislocated peroneal tendon. Considering that it was his left foot, I expect him to line up on the right side to avoid having to explode off the left foot to bend the edge.
 

But other than that, he proved that last season he could return to form. Regrettably, I cannot find any information on the reinjury risk for an injury such as this. This is a fairly rare injury in itself but last year’s production puts most of my concerns to rest. 

As for his other injuries, the thumb injury and ACL tear were so long ago, they won’t have much of an impact on his present skills and there is very little concern to reinjure those areas. He also does not have an extensive history of soft tissue injuries, which he should continue to avoid with less playing time and better recovery methods with the Bills’ training center.

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2022/3/19/22984191/injury-analysis-buffalo-bills-pass-rusher-von-miller-2022-nfl-free-agency

Edited yesterday at 02:01 PM by JohnNord

[Mister Defense]

Just now, JohnNord said:

Ok then show me evidence about the injury concerns about Von Miller in 2022.  

Where are all of the people who were concerned about Von’s injury history?

 

Age? Yes

Contract? Yes

Injury History?  No

 

Well, I know for sure that I believed the combination of factors--his big recent injury, the fact that he missed games each year with other injuries, and the fact that the traits that best defined his success, his speed and athleticism, were the traits of a younger, healthier man --were enough to cause me to think it was an awful move when Miller was signed, a bad risk.

 

I am proud that you think I am the only one who was accurate on this in the entire world!  Likely not the case, but thanks anyway.

 

 

[JohnNord]

6 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

Well, I know for sure that I believed the combination of factors--his big recent injury, the fact that he missed games each year with other injuries, and the fact that the traits that best defined his success, his speed and athleticism, were the traits of a younger, healthier man --were enough to cause me to think it was an awful move when Miller was signed, a bad risk.

 

I am proud that you think I am the only one who was accurate on this in the entire world!  Likely not the case, but thanks anyway.

 

 

Where’s your evidence?  If you need me to, I can find more examples of how injury history wasn’t a concern 3 years ago

[Mister Defense]

10 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Where’s your evidence?  If you need me to, I can find more examples of how injury history wasn’t a concern 3 years ago

 

After I responded to your post you added a bizarre over the top praise of Miller from a doctor who sounds very lacking in objectivity. 

 

He sounds like Dr. Nick on the Simpsons.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnpy3cC673o

 

Again, JF, you are doing just what you have done in this conversation--first, using the fact that the majority may have felt as you did, and then, quoting one 'doctor'.

 

It is okay if you take your knowledge gained from watching a lot of football, and, I assume, reading about it as well, and come to an intelligent, original decision.

 

Calling the crowds' or one doctor's opinion evidence does not make it so. But I assume you know that.

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 02:31 PM by Mister Defense

[JohnNord]

5 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

After I responded to your post you added a bizarre over the top praise of Miller from a doctor who sounds very lacking in objectivity. 

 

He sounds like Dr. Nick on the Simpsons. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo2v1CBooSA

 

Again, JF, you are doing just what you have done in this conversation--first, using the fact that the majority may have felt as you did, and then, quoting one 'doctor'.

 

It is okay if you take your knowledge gained from watching a lot of football, and, I assume, reading about it as well, and come to an intelligent, original decision.

 

Calling the crowds' or one doctor's opinion evidence does not make it so. But I assume you know that.

 

 

What I was doing was adding nuance to the discussion to show that at the time of the signing there was little concern of Von Miller’s injury history or a reoccurrence to tearing his ACL. I tried to share one example from an actual PT doctor who echoed this sentiment.   

What you’re doing is looking at the result and pretending that this was a concern 3 years ago.  It wasn’t.
 

Hardly anyone talking about Von Miller as a player with an injury history.   
 

If they did… prove it.

 

 

[Mister Defense]

1 minute ago, JohnNord said:

What I was doing was adding nuance to the discussion to show that at the time of the signing there was little concern of Von Miller’s injury history or a reoccurrence to tearing his ACL. I tried to share one example from an actual PT doctor who echoed this sentiment.   

What you’re doing is looking at the result and pretending that this was a concern 3 years ago.  It wasn’t.
 

Hardly anyone talking about Von Miller as a player with an injury history.   
 

If they did… prove it.

 

 

 

 

Hmmm, seem to not be reading my posts...

 

I thought what I thought at the time of the Miller signing, all on my own, based on what I knew about Miller and football.

 

I did not look for confirmation of my views by others, but arrived at that all by myself. I did not look to see if the majority felt the same, or if one doctor may have a different opinion, but all by myself.

 

I took full responsibility for my opinion at the time of his signing, and until now, that the Miller signing was a bad move, a bad risk. I have supported most of the moves Beane has made, but not this awful one--and did so at the time it happened.  Check my posts at the time..

 

It sure seems I was correct on that and that you were wrong.

 

But get over it--I have likely been wrong just as much or more than I have been right when it comes to the NFL and the Bills. You will likely be right on something soon and I will be wrong. Not on this though, obviously.

 

 

 

[JohnNord]

13 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

 

Hmmm, seem to not be reading my posts...

 

I thought what I thought at the time of the Miller signing, all on my own, based on what I knew about Miller and football.

 

I did not look for confirmation of my views by others, but arrived at that all by myself. I did not look to see if the majority felt the same, or if one doctor may have a different opinion, but all by myself.

 

I took full responsibility for my opinion at the time of his signing, and until now, that the Miller signing was a bad move, a bad risk. I have supported most of the moves Beane has made, but not this awful one--and did so at the time it happened.  Check my posts at the time..

 

It sure seems I was correct on that and that you were wrong.

 

But get over it--I have likely been wrong just as much or more than I have been right when it comes to the NFL and the Bills. You will likely be right on something soon and I will be wrong. Not on this though, obviously.

 

 

 

LOL OK you were the ONE person with injury concerns about Von Miller but can’t find any evidence to back up this claim?  Got it.

 

You know I was also the same the person that said the Bills needed to draft Josh Allen in 2018 and that he was a future HOF’er the moment the pick came in 🤣

[hondo in seattle]

16 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Gee… I wonder what the difference was?

He only played half a season with the Rams and never was injured.  It happened years ago in Denver.  Just because someone tears an ACL years ago doesn’t mean it’s guaranteed to happen again. 

 

You are correct though.  Every big signing is one ACL from going sideways.  That happened with Von.  It doesn’t mean it was a bad move.  

 

I was always ambivalent about Von's signing.  We needed to provide more pressure on the QBs and Von was available to the highest bidder.   It made sense.  

 

But the opportunity cost always bothered me.  We were - and remain - a team with multiple needs and I always wondered who we didn't sign afterwards because we signed Von.

 

To spend all that money on one guy seemed pretty reckless - particularly on a guy in his 30s.   And, yes, I realize that some players (even DEs) remain productive in their 30s.  But some don't because of age and/or injuries.  Signing Von was a significant gamble with a high opportunity cost.  It could have worked out better but it's not a shock that we ended up paying $3 million per sack over three years.  We won the bidding war because the cost-benefit analysis done by other teams wasn't as optimistic as Beane's.  It turned out they were right and Beane was wrong.  

[wppete]

Resign him for vet minimum loaded with incentives. 

[Mister Defense]

24 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

LOL OK you were the ONE person with injury concerns about Von Miller but can’t find any evidence to back up this claim?  Got it.

 

You know I was also the same the person that said the Bills needed to draft Josh Allen in 2018 and that he was a future HOF’er the moment the pick came in 🤣

 

Thanks for your over the top praise of my analysis abilities--but I believe it was more than just me who felt that way, though I did not care about that at the time.

 

But great take on Josh.

 

I did not know which QB we should draft, kept going back and forth. 

 

But at one point, I have to admit, I was thinking the other Josh was the guy, the one most ready to play.

 

But I was operating out of ignorance, as I had not seen almost any games played by the quarterbacks available. I just listened to what others said.  But the conventional wisdom, and take by the experts often is wrong. And like in this case, comically so, though I am sure the Cardinals did not find it very funny.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 03:38 PM by Mister Defense

[JohnNord]

16 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I was always ambivalent about Von's signing.  We needed to provide more pressure on the QBs and Von was available to the highest bidder.   It made sense.  

 

But the opportunity cost always bothered me.  We were - and remain - a team with multiple needs and I always wondered who we didn't sign afterwards because we signed Von.

 

To spend all that money on one guy seemed pretty reckless - particularly on a guy in his 30s.   And, yes, I realize that some players (even DEs) remain productive in their 30s.  But some don't because of age and/or injuries.  Signing Von was a significant gamble with a high opportunity cost.  It could have worked out better but it's not a shock that we ended up paying $3 million per sack over three years.  We won the bidding war because the cost-benefit analysis done by other teams wasn't as optimistic as Beane's.  It turned out they were right and Beane was wrong.  

Age was definitely a valid concern among some.  This wasmet by many in media about how Von “keeps himself in great shape.”  Honestly age wasn’t a factor with Von until he was hurt.

 

I was for the big move because the Bills had failed at boosting their DL  They tried incumbents (Hughes, Lawson), mid tier Free Agents (Murphy, Addison, Butler) and high draft picks (Rosseau, Basham).  The pass rush was average and lacked someone to step up in big situations.   Plus Von could mentor the rookies who needed a lot of work.  
 

Everything worked  exactly to plan before the injury.  

[T master]

On 3/9/2025 at 9:16 AM, Process said:

No surprise here

 

 

How much is his dead cap hit of this year ?

[LABILLBACKER]

7 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I was always ambivalent about Von's signing.  We needed to provide more pressure on the QBs and Von was available to the highest bidder.   It made sense.  

 

But the opportunity cost always bothered me.  We were - and remain - a team with multiple needs and I always wondered who we didn't sign afterwards because we signed Von.

 

To spend all that money on one guy seemed pretty reckless - particularly on a guy in his 30s.   And, yes, I realize that some players (even DEs) remain productive in their 30s.  But some don't because of age and/or injuries.  Signing Von was a significant gamble with a high opportunity cost.  It could have worked out better but it's not a shock that we ended up paying $3 million per sack over three years.  We won the bidding war because the cost-benefit analysis done by other teams wasn't as optimistic as Beane's.  It turned out they were right and Beane was wrong.  

The problem is we didn't get the Bronco or Rams version.  We got the Bills version which always comes with a large serving of curse. We signed Von to attack Patrick in the playoffs.  In exactly 5 playoff games, Von had 0 sacks and 0 TFL's.  Let that soak in. He was 33 when we signed him.  It was way too risky & expensive considering the time frame and injury history. 

[billsfan89]

3 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The problem is we didn't get the Bronco or Rams version.  We got the Bills version which always comes with a large serving of curse. We signed Von to attack Patrick in the playoffs.  In exactly 5 playoff games, Von had 0 sacks and 0 TFL's.  Let that soak in. He was 33 when we signed him.  It was way too risky & expensive considering the time frame and injury history. 

 

Von was averaging a sack a game in 2022 on 55% of the teams defensive snaps. He was every good as he was advertised to be. He got hurt on a player colliding into him violently on Thanksgiving. It wasn't that Von wasn't good it was that he got hurt. It wasn't even an age related injury either, just bad luck. 

[Solomon Grundy]

I believe he will be back in Buffalo. Still think they're working out some type of deal.