Another one - Trey Hendrickson asks for a trade from Cincy

[PoundingDog]

I was wrong. 2022 is the last year they did that. and 2023 they did for coaches

[Augie]

11 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

True, but it's not just about Elam and our worst busts.

 

The reality of the situation is, there isnt (or at least hasnt been) talent available when we pick. Therefore, trading our 1st for a known quantity and high level talent shouldnt be seen aas a crazy idea.

 

Ideally, sure, we hit on the pick and have a top talent for 4-5 very affordable years. But that talent hasnt even been there to hit on.

 

So you want to trade our firsts for (older?) guys who will cost $30Mil/year.  If there was one guy I was convinced with, I’d consider it but there are apparently no options available that fit the bill. So I’ll hope to find some cheap talent who can become elite while we pay they a rookie wage. 

 

.

Edited Monday at 09:43 PM by Augie

[PoundingDog]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

I get that. But the talent simply isnt there where we are picking in the 1st.

You just don't know. The example you gave - Diggs being the best equivalent the Bills out of their 1st round picks in recent years. Ironically, had the Beane hold onto that 1st round pick and did what the Vikings did, drafting WR Jefferson, the Bills would've have a HoF level player in his prime along with Allen. 

[Mark Vader]

51 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

stunning.  Cool for their fans.  Here's to Bosa staying healthy all year and getting 17 sacks + 7 more in the playoffs

Don't be shocked if Von Miller comes back.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, PoundingDog said:

You just don't know. The example you gave - Diggs being the best equivalent the Bills out of their 1st round picks in recent years. Ironically, had the Beane hold onto that 1st round pick and did what the Vikings did, drafting WR Jefferson, the Bills would've have a HoF level player in his prime along with Allen. 

 

I gave way more examples than that. Namely, 2021, 2022, and 2023's drafts. I've even added the links now so you can see for yourself. And I'm sure if I went through more drafts, we wouldnt be surprised to see the talent fall off after the first 25 picks or so.

 

And there is no guarantee that Jefferson/Josh works out like Diggs/Josh. Remember, Diggs was the savvy vet who provided some guidance to a young Josh. Much different when our development project QB now has to also coach up a rookie at WR.

 

Could've happened, but success doesnt happen in a vacuum. It's very situational in the NFL.

6 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

So you want to trade our firsts for guys who will cost $30Mil/year.  If there was one guy I was convinced with, I’d consider it but there are apparently no options available that fit the bill. So I’ll hope to find some cheap talent who can become elite while we pay they a rookie wage. 

 

I'm not saying we always should. I'm just saying that doing so isnt crazy.

[PoundingDog]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

And there is no guarantee that Jefferson/Josh works out like Diggs/Josh. Remember, Diggs was the savvy vet who provided some guidance to a young Josh. Much different when our development project QB now has to also coach up a rookie at WR.

I agree there is no guarantee. But I, and I think most football fans would bet that the chance of a prime year HoF bound QB and a prime year HoF bound receiver working out great would be very high, if not extremely high. 

[Augie]

13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I gave way more examples than that. Namely, 2021, 2022, and 2023's drafts. I've even added the links now so you can see for yourself. And I'm sure if I went through more drafts, we wouldnt be surprised to see the talent fall off after the first 25 picks or so.

 

And there is no guarantee that Jefferson/Josh works out like Diggs/Josh. Remember, Diggs was the savvy vet who provided some guidance to a young Josh. Much different when our development project QB now has to also coach up a rookie at WR.

 

Could've happened, but success doesnt happen in a vacuum. It's very situational in the NFL.

 

I'm not saying we always should. I'm just saying that doing so isnt crazy.

 

The one guy I might have been good with didn’t cost $30Mil/yr….it was $40Mil/yr. Idiot owners like Haslam ruin things for everyone else! 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, loedward22 said:

if they get him I’ll look at it like the burrow era peaked in their superbowl year. It’s not like they’re going to get better…

 

this is a novel take

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I gave way more examples than that. Namely, 2021, 2022, and 2023's drafts. I've even added the links now so you can see for yourself. And I'm sure if I went through more drafts, we wouldnt be surprised to see the talent fall off after the first 25 picks or so.

 

And there is no guarantee that Jefferson/Josh works out like Diggs/Josh. Remember, Diggs was the savvy vet who provided some guidance to a young Josh. Much different when our development project QB now has to also coach up a rookie at WR.

 

Could've happened, but success doesnt happen in a vacuum. It's very situational in the NFL.

 

I'm not saying we always should. I'm just saying that doing so isnt crazy.

Yup.

 

The Diggs v Jefferson conversation is funny to me because I think the biggest thing Josh needed was a PROVEN offensive superstar in his corner as opposed to a great rookie. 
 

Now, do I think Josh becomes the superstar elite QB he is with JJ instead of Diggs? Probably, yeah. But I will never ever hold that trade against Beane. Diggs had the gravitas to help Josh grow. It was 100% the right move and even in hindsight, I still think I make it. 

1 hour ago, PoundingDog said:

I agree there is no guarantee. But I, and I think most football fans would bet that the chance of a prime year HoF bound QB and a prime year HoF bound receiver working out great would be very high, if not extremely high. 

Asking above, if you could go back and draft JJ, knowing how Josh turned out with Diggs, would you do it?

[PoundingDog]

52 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Asking above, if you could go back and draft JJ, knowing how Josh turned out with Diggs, would you do it?

You are asking the hypothetical scenario that would I draft JJ 2020 knowing what he is today, even with the the unknown on how Josh would turn out with Jefferson. 100% I will take the chance that Josh will turn out just as good with Diggs.

 

 

[PoundingDog]

Look, we kind of know what Beane is by now. He values -- I mean really values -- draft picks. But he's a bit of a gambler on traits. Top picks under his watch, Allen, Edmunds, Oliver, Rousseau, Elam, Kincaid, Coleman all had elite physical traits that he hoped that if mentally unlocked would translate to true big stars. It worked out splendidly on Allen. Somewhat on Rousseau - I think at age 24, his book is still being written. Definitely not on Edmunds and Elam. I don't think he's going to shell out big time draft assets for any aging star, defined like around age 30 or so.

[balln]

9 minutes ago, PoundingDog said:

Look, we kind of know what Beane is by now. He values -- I mean really values -- draft picks. But he's a bit of a gambler on traits. Top picks under his watch, Allen, Edmunds, Oliver, Rousseau, Elam, Kincaid, Coleman all had elite physical traits that he hoped that if mentally unlocked would translate to true big stars. It worked out splendidly on Allen. Somewhat on Rousseau - I think at age 24, his book is still being written. Definitely not on Edmunds and Elam. I don't think he's going to shell out big time draft assets for any aging star, defined like around age 30 or so.

I think he and McD value culture and character too much. They have their reasons im sure. But it’s just too much weight in their team building algorithm 

[FireChans]

46 minutes ago, PoundingDog said:

You are asking the hypothetical scenario that would I draft JJ 2020 knowing what he is today, even with the the unknown on how Josh would turn out with Jefferson. 100% I will take the chance that Josh will turn out just as good with Diggs.

 

 

Fair enough. 
 

I’m not sure I would.

[blacklabel]

24 minutes ago, balln said:

I think he and McD value culture and character too much. They have their reasons im sure. But it’s just too much weight in their team building algorithm 

 

I kinda used to think that as well but then you hear about them being in on a guy like Antonio Brown. At that point I was like yeah, they value high character and buying into their culture but if they're going after a nutcase like Brown then I'd assume they feel strongly enough about the culture and the team leaders that they'd be able to handle a personality like that. 

 

At the same time, it's become a little bit of a tell for them. For me it's gotten to the point where I can read scouting reports and see if the guy checks the boxes for McBeane. I guessed they'd go after Shakir, they did. Last year I felt like Bishop was a guy they'd like, they picked him. It doesn't happen every time but if you wanna get a decent idea of which prospects they probably like look for the dudes with one, a lot of experience, two, high character with leadership abilities, three, team first and just wants to win. Typically after a draft is complete I'll go read up on the guys they picked and for like 70% of them you'll find at least one or two of those traits. 

[Turbo44]

3 hours ago, Mark Vader said:

Don't be shocked if Von Miller comes back.

Agree and Douglas too

[GreggTX]

The 'sensation' youtube channels are already ablaze withe "He's coming to Buffalo!" noise. One even suggested that we're trading pick 56, 2 day 3 picks and next year's 3rd for him. Pretty funny, these channels. Of course, I'd love that trade, but I've got a better chace of getting hit by lighning and I don't get out much.