Another one - Trey Hendrickson asks for a trade from Cincy

[mannc]

9 minutes ago, PoundingDog said:

All of us arm chair GMs severely underestimate the value of draft picks in recent years, especially 1st round.

 

Can someone tell me WHEN is the last time a team traded away a first round pick for a non QB, or even for a QB?

 

Answer: 5 years ago.

 

The reason is simple: with the trend of salary escalation for star players, 1st round pick, even day two picks, are valued as almost important for starters in an NFL team.

First round picks don’t always work out (obviously), but every GM thinks their future first round picks will be great…and you are getting a young, healthy, cost-controlled player for at least 4 years. As these contract values keep exploding, first round picks will become even more valuable…

[That's No Moon]

As soon as they spent all their money and it became obvious they wouldn't and couldn't give Hendrickson a big extension the price for a trade went down.

Edited Monday at 06:26 PM by That's No Moon

[DrDawkinstein]

38 minutes ago, PoundingDog said:

All of us arm chair GMs severely underestimate the value of draft picks in recent years, especially 1st round.

 

Can someone tell me WHEN is the last time a team traded away a first round pick for a non QB, or even for a QB?

 

Answer: 5 years ago.

 

The reason is simple: with the trend of salary escalation for star players, 1st round pick, even day two picks, are valued as almost important for starters in an NFL team.

 

I get the value of them, and the potential perks.

 

However, I also understand we are no longer the consistently 6-10 drought Bills picking in the 8-12 range.

 

Being at the end of the round every year significantly affects the value of our 1st round picks.

 

Looking back at our recent drafts, even with the benefit of hindsight, there arent even other players there within the next 10-15 picks that we should've drafted. No one after Elam in 2022 stands out as must-haves or big misses. No one in 2023 after Kincaid. Not even in 2021 with Rousseau.

 

The talent level just isnt there. Couple that with this year being a specifically "low" talent draft.

 

Outside of the benefit of the 5th year option, I dont see much reason to hold onto a 1st round pick when there is known talent available in a vet.

 

edit:

 

To put it another way, out of Rousseau, Kincaid, Elam, and Diggs who had the biggest impact and most value to the team? The answer is far and away Diggs. Maybe even more so than all 3 of the other guys combined, and I like Rousseau and Kincaid.

Edited Monday at 06:44 PM by DrDawkinstein

[BillsFanForever19]

24 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

As soon as they spent all their money and it became obvious they wouldn't and couldn't give Hendrickson a big extension the price for a trade went down.

 

Where are you seeing this? Bc all I'm seeing is:

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bengals-working-to-retain-trey-hendrickson-after-giving-jamarr-chase-tee-higgins-massive-deals-per-reports/

 

It's not impossible. The Bengals notoriously don't pay anyone. They always have a massive amount of cap space. Even with Burrow. So when they want to spend money, they can.

 

People didn't think they could do Burrow, Higgins, and Chase either. If they want to keep Hendrickson and it seems they do, I'd bet they can make that work too.

[DrDawkinstein]

7 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Where are you seeing this? Bc all I'm seeing is:

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bengals-working-to-retain-trey-hendrickson-after-giving-jamarr-chase-tee-higgins-massive-deals-per-reports/

 

It's not impossible. The Bengals notoriously don't pay anyone. They always have a massive amount of cap space. Even with Burrow. So when they want to spend money, they can.

 

People didn't think they could do Burrow, Higgins, and Chase either. If they want to keep Hendrickson and it seems they do, I'd bet they can make that work too.

 

It's technically possible. It just isnt typical Mike Brown behavior. I think folks assume he stretched so far to get these deals done that he's done stretching. We'll see.

[Warriorspikes51]

35 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I get the value of them, and the potential perks.

 

However, I also understand we are no longer the consistently 6-10 drought Bills picking in the 8-12 range.

 

Being at the end of the round every year significantly affects the value of our 1st round picks.

 

Looking back at our recent drafts, even with the benefit of hindsight, there arent even other players there within the next 10-15 picks that we should've drafted. No one after Elam in 2022 stands out as must-haves or big misses. No one in 2023 after Kincaid. Not even in 2021 with Rousseau.

 

The talent level just isnt there. Couple that with this year being a specifically "low" talent draft.

 

Outside of the benefit of the 5th year option, I dont see much reason to hold onto a 1st round pick when there is known talent available in a vet.

 

edit:

 

To put it another way, out of Rousseau, Kincaid, Elam, and Diggs who had the biggest impact and most value to the team? The answer is far and away Diggs. Maybe even more so than all 3 of the other guys combined, and I like Rousseau and Kincaid.

 

Thankfully there seems to be a good amount of talent at DT and CB 

[That's No Moon]

32 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Where are you seeing this? Bc all I'm seeing is:

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bengals-working-to-retain-trey-hendrickson-after-giving-jamarr-chase-tee-higgins-massive-deals-per-reports/

 

It's not impossible. The Bengals notoriously don't pay anyone. They always have a massive amount of cap space. Even with Burrow. So when they want to spend money, they can.

 

People didn't think they could do Burrow, Higgins, and Chase either. If they want to keep Hendrickson and it seems they do, I'd bet they can make that work too.

I'm not seeing it, but you point out why it's the case and it's why they gave him permission to seek a trade in the first place. They know they aren't going to pay him what he wants, otherwise you don't give him permission to seek a trade. 

[BillsFanForever19]

21 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It's technically possible. It just isnt typical Mike Brown behavior. I think folks assume he stretched so far to get these deals done that he's done stretching. We'll see.

 

Just now, That's No Moon said:

I'm not seeing it, but you point out why it's the case and it's why they gave him permission to seek a trade in the first place. They know they aren't going to pay him what he wants, otherwise you don't give him permission to seek a trade. 

 

It's funny to me how the cap isn't real when it comes to fans talking about us going after players. But when it comes to teams retaining players we want, they "can't" and the cap then becomes very real.

 

The truth is, even after the Chase and Higgins deal, the Bengals are in better cap shape than we are. So if they "can't", then neither could we. 

 

In all actuality, they can just like we could. 

 

As for the letting him seek a trade - they kinda did. Unlike Garrett (who ended up staying anyways), he doesn't seem to want out. He said he preferred to stay but wants to get paid. This led to people calling and apparently the Bengals setting a "laughable" price.

 

And since the deals to Chase and Higgins, the story hasn't been that they're now lowering their price and looking to move him. It's that they're trying to get that done. Which may be easier now that they've gotten those out of the way and perhaps structured them in a way to work around a Hendrickson deal.

[PoundingDog]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I get the value of them, and the potential perks.

 

However, I also understand we are no longer the consistently 6-10 drought Bills picking in the 8-12 range.

 

Being at the end of the round every year significantly affects the value of our 1st round picks.

 

Looking back at our recent drafts, even with the benefit of hindsight, there arent even other players there within the next 10-15 picks that we should've drafted. No one after Elam in 2022 stands out as must-haves or big misses. No one in 2023 after Kincaid. Not even in 2021 with Rousseau.

 

The talent level just isnt there. Couple that with this year being a specifically "low" talent draft.

 

Outside of the benefit of the 5th year option, I dont see much reason to hold onto a 1st round pick when there is known talent available in a vet.

 

edit:

 

To put it another way, out of Rousseau, Kincaid, Elam, and Diggs who had the biggest impact and most value to the team? The answer is far and away Diggs. Maybe even more so than all 3 of the other guys combined, and I like Rousseau and Kincaid.

Hindsight is 20-20. But as a GM, you gotta be able to find lasting talent on your 1st round picks. They are more or less the foundation of the team you build.

 

[DrDawkinstein]

9 minutes ago, PoundingDog said:

Hindsight is 20-20. But as a GM, you gotta be able to find lasting talent on your 1st round picks. They are more or less the foundation of the team you build.

 

 

I get that. But the talent simply isnt there where we are picking in the 1st.

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, PoundingDog said:

All of us arm chair GMs severely underestimate the value of draft picks in recent years, especially 1st round.

 

Can someone tell me WHEN is the last time a team traded away a first round pick for a non QB, or even for a QB?

 

Answer: 5 years ago.

 

The reason is simple: with the trend of salary escalation for star players, 1st round pick, even day two picks, are valued as almost important for starters in an NFL team.

What

 

AJ Brown was traded for a first round pick in 2022

[Mr. WEO]

22 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

 

It's funny to me how the cap isn't real when it comes to fans talking about us going after players. But when it comes to teams retaining players we want, they "can't" and the cap then becomes very real.

 

The truth is, even after the Chase and Higgins deal, the Bengals are in better cap shape than we are. So if they "can't", then neither could we. 

 

In all actuality, they can just like we could. 

 

As for the letting him seek a trade - they kinda did. Unlike Garrett (who ended up staying anyways), he doesn't seem to want out. He said he preferred to stay but wants to get paid. This led to people calling and apparently the Bengals setting a "laughable" price.

 

And since the deals to Chase and Higgins, the story hasn't been that they're now lowering their price and looking to move him. It's that they're trying to get that done. Which may be easier now that they've gotten those out of the way and perhaps structured them in a way to work around a Hendrickson deal.

 

 

[BillsFanForever19]

7 minutes ago, FireChans said:

What

 

AJ Brown was traded for a first round pick in 2022

 

Not to mention Tyreek Hill that same year for a 1st, a 2nd, two 4th's, and a 6th.

[Augie]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I get the value of them, and the potential perks.

 

However, I also understand we are no longer the consistently 6-10 drought Bills picking in the 8-12 range.

 

Being at the end of the round every year significantly affects the value of our 1st round picks.

 

Looking back at our recent drafts, even with the benefit of hindsight, there arent even other players there within the next 10-15 picks that we should've drafted. No one after Elam in 2022 stands out as must-haves or big misses. No one in 2023 after Kincaid. Not even in 2021 with Rousseau.

 

The talent level just isnt there. Couple that with this year being a specifically "low" talent draft.

 

Outside of the benefit of the 5th year option, I dont see much reason to hold onto a 1st round pick when there is known talent available in a vet.

 

edit:

 

To put it another way, out of Rousseau, Kincaid, Elam, and Diggs who had the biggest impact and most value to the team? The answer is far and away Diggs. Maybe even more so than all 3 of the other guys combined, and I like Rousseau and Kincaid.

 

I don’t know the answer, but I’d be curious to know how much Rousseau, Elam and Kincaid cost collectively vs what Diggs was paid. 

[BillsFanForever19]

6 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

Sweet! Let's Go!!  Another one of these adamant declarations!   

 

These always increase the chance of something happening 😂😂🤣

 

Do they?

 

Because this has become your favorite answer to literally every stance anyone has taken since people (admittedly, myself included) guaranteed Diggs wouldn't be traded. And it hasn't rung true a single time since.

 

It didn't increase the odds of us signing Arik Armstead, or us trading up for a WR, or us taking 2 WR's in the first 2 Rounds (or at all), or Micah Hyde seeing the field for us, or us (or anyone) trading for Myles Garrett, or us (or anyone) trading for Maxx Crosby, or us trading for DK Metcalf, and surely others I'm forgetting bc you're like a broken record with this comment. 

Edited Monday at 09:16 PM by BillsFanForever19

[Warriorspikes51]

16 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

stunning.  Cool for their fans.  Here's to Bosa staying healthy all year and getting 17 sacks + 7 more in the playoffs

[DrDawkinstein]

17 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I don’t know the answer, but I’d be curious to know how much Rousseau, Elam and Kincaid cost collectively vs what Diggs was paid. 

 

I'll look up the numbers for 2023 which is the only year all 4 were on the team, and for overall contracts. But before I do I'll assume the three of them added up still cost far less than Diggs on his own. But I'd also argue we got way more production out of Diggs than all 3 of them combined. Elam really sandbagging and helping my argument there haha.

 

edit:

 

2023

Rousseau $1.7M

Elam $1.3M

Kincaid ~$1.5M

Diggs like $25M lol

 

So, I see the value in the 1st round picks, especially dollar-wise. But if those picks don't, won't, or can't produce then what's the point of saving the money?

 

And again, it isnt even a GM problem. Look at those drafts again. There simply isnt anyone there that wouldve been a better pick even with the benefit of hindsight.

Edited Monday at 09:08 PM by DrDawkinstein

[Augie]

14 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I'll look up the numbers for 2023 which is the only year all 4 were on the team, and for overall contracts. But before I do I'll assume the three of them added up still cost far less than Diggs on his own. But I'd also argue we got way more production out of Diggs than all 3 of them combined. Elam really sandbagging and helping my argument there haha.

 

edit:

 

2023

Rousseau $1.7M

Elam $1.3M

Kincaid ~$1.5M

Diggs like $25M lol

 

So, I see the value in the 1st round picks, especially dollar-wise. But if those picks don't, won't, or can't produce then what's the point of saving the money?

 

And again, it isnt even a GM problem. Look at those drafts again. There simply isnt anyone there that wouldve been a better pick even with the benefit of hindsight.

 

The point is, we all have to pray that we don’t “Pull Another Elam” any time soon in the draft.  

 

I wish him well and all that, but it was not a fit here and I’m glad to move on. Every team has whiffs. I think we’re due for lighting to strike with a home run. From the returning guys, I’m curious about Solomon for some stupid reason. 

[loedward22]

59 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

if they get him I’ll look at it like the burrow era peaked in their superbowl year. It’s not like they’re going to get better…

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

The point is, we all have to pray that we don’t “Pull Another Elam” any time soon in the draft.  

 

I wish him well and all that, but it was not a fit here and I’m glad to move on. Every team has whiffs. I think we’re due for lighting to strike with a home run. From the returning guys, I’m curious about Solomon for some stupid reason. 

 

True, but it's not just about Elam and our worst busts.

 

The reality of the situation is, there isnt (or at least hasnt been) talent available when we pick. Therefore, trading our 1st for a known quantity and high level talent shouldnt be seen aas a crazy idea.

 

Ideally, sure, we hit on the pick and have a top talent for 4-5 very affordable years. But that talent hasnt even been there to hit on.