Another one - Trey Hendrickson asks for a trade from Cincy

[Low Positive]

7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I cant believe that Garrett's cap hit is even on the Top-20 list of fan grievances with that team.

It's part of a larger problem in that it's indicative of a team whose primary motivation is not winning football games. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 hours ago, Low Positive said:

Two things can be true:

1. Mike Brown never had any intention of trading him, so he set the bar where it knew it would never be met.
2. Hendrickson is probably worth a first. 

Why is Hendrickson only worth a second, but Myles Garrett would have fetched multiple firsts? I know Garrett is the better player but, at least based on production over the past 5 seasons, the gap is not that big. I think people, including NFL GMs, still take draft positioning into account when assessing value.

 

Both are pure speculation at this point as Garrett signed.  I do feel that in the NFL players are often traded for much less than initially thought mainly because NFL GM's value draft picks more than their own children and try like hell to not give them up as compared to the NBA where they hand them out like candy.

 

Also think after Monday, teams have spent much of their available cash so likely what the Bengals wand and what they now can get goes down.

 

3 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Be careful what you wish for. Browns and Steelers fans hate how much cap space is tied up in guys like Garrett and watt. That same thought is why the bengals are trading Hendrickson.

Tying up so much money in 1 defensive player is not a great way to build your team. If we want an elite pass rusher, have to hit a home run in the draft. 

 

 

OK, but then in 4 years Bills are in the same boat or let him walk and hope to strike gold again.  Like a report I read last week stated.  For a player like Groot, picked 30th, he's about what you'd likely get talent wise.  It's dumb luck to get that elite guy at #30 as means 29 other GM's were all to dumb to pick him and/or we just got lucky.  To expect to get that guy isn't that likely this year either even is a deep class.

 

Also think it's a bit different when arguably the Bills very well may be having an elite pass rush away from winning the SB.   If I were a team like Saints, Raiders, Carolina,  I wouldn't bother going after him as by the time you get rest of roster fixed, Hendrickson may be over the hill.  Add to that even if the did somehow draft that elite guy who turns out to be even better than Bruce Smith, the likelihood of that happening in year 1 or 2 is very low.  It took Smith until around his 3rd year to be considered great.  Recall early on he was not all that good against the run.

Edited Thursday at 06:09 PM by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

16 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Both are pure speculation at this point as Garrett signed.  I do feel that in the NFL players are often traded for much less than initially thought mainly because NFL GM's value draft picks more than their own children and try like hell to not give them up as compared to the NBA where they hand them out like candy.

 

Also think after Monday, teams have spent much of their available cash so likely what the Bengals wand and what they now can get goes down.

 

 

 

OK, but then in 4 years Bills are in the same boat or let him walk and hope to strike gold again.  Like a report I read last week stated.  For a player like Groot, picked 30th, he's about what you'd likely get talent wise.  It's dumb luck to get that elite guy at #30 as means 29 other GM's were all to dumb to pick him and/or we just got lucky.  To expect to get that guy isn't that likely this year either even is a deep class.

 

Also think it's a bit different when arguably the Bills very well may be having an elite pass rush away from winning the SB.   If I were a team like Saints, Raiders, Carolina,  I wouldn't bother going after him as by the time you get rest of roster fixed, Hendrickson may be over the hill

Hendrickson was a 3rd round pick. Watt was a very late 1st round pick. Maxx. Crosby was a 4th round pick. Chris Jones was a 2nd round pick.

 

its not like picking a QB. You don’t have to strike gold. You can get elite pass rushers in the draft. Just have to pick better.

 

just too risky for me to pay an elite pass rusher a ton of money. 

[Mark Vader]

57 minutes ago, Logic said:

The question for me with the "and more" part is....HOW much more?

Because if its, say, a 1st, a 2nd, and a 4th, I'd do that deal. Look at the Bills' recent track record in the 1st and 2nd rounds. Hendrickson is already a finished product and likely gives 3-4 years of top end defensive line play.

So how much more is "and more"?

All of that said, it seems highly unlikely. The Bills just paid Rousseau and signed Bosa, plus they have Epenesa, Hoecht, and Soloman. So unless they're cutting/trading Epenesa, I'm not seeing a Hendrickson trade on the horizon.

This is what I want to know. Do they want multiple high picks? Do they want a high pick and a player?

 

I get the feeling that this will drag on for some time.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Hendrickson was a 3rd round pick. Watt was a very late 1st round pick. Maxx. Crosby was a 4th round pick. Chris Jones was a 2nd round pick.

 

its not like picking a QB. You don’t have to strike gold. You can get elite pass rushers in the draft. Just have to pick better.

 

just too risky for me to pay an elite pass rusher a ton of money. 

 

So if you were a GM would you have waited till round 4 to select Crosby if you knew he was going to be that good, or round 3 for Hendrickson, or let Tom Brady go to round 6?  If your argument is that Beane needs to pick better and get that guy, then that tells me right there that all 32 GM's were all clueless as they passed on these guys and could have easily gone to another team.  To expect Beane to be that much smarter than 32 other guys in the room is totally unrealistic.   What it does tell me that these guys got lucky and so could Beane, but then you're betting 100% on luck.

 

I don't disagree with it being very risky to pay some elite pass rusher a ton of money, but to expect the Bills to select that elite guy when 29 other GM's had a chance prior it telling me you're putting everything on pure luck.

[Warriorspikes51]

No one will agree. Don’t care. Pull the trigger

 

a rotation of

 

Hendrickson, Bosa, Rousseau, ________
 

is CRAZY scary.

 

3rd downs,  all 3 can be on the field

 

staggered 5 man fronts with Oliver and a rookie NT who can take a double team

 

DO IT

[mannc]

3 hours ago, Logic said:

Yep.

If anyone ever fails to realize or appreciate what having GOOD team ownership and general manager looks like, I'd direct them to look over at the Cincinnati Bengals.

THAT is what it looks like to have bad, cheap ownership and a bad general manager. Waiting on the Chase extension only to see him post one of the best WR seasons ever and up his pricetag considerably, waiting on the Tee Higgins extension only to have to try to get it done at the same time they're trying to extend Chase, agreeing to let their all-world EDGE seek a trade. WOOF.

Sometimes I hear people say that Beane or McDermott are wasting Allen's prime. But if you want to see what wasting a quarterback's prime REALLY looks like, let me present the Cincinnati freakin Bengals.

Not trying to defend the Bengals, who are a garbage organization, but why should they be in a hurry to deal Hendrickson?  Why not demand a ransom for him.  They can't afford to sign Chase, Higgins and Hendrickson, but those first two deals haven't gotten done yet, so they still have leverage.  Maybe the Bengals think someone will offer more for Hendrickson closer to Draft Day...there's no reason for them to be in hurry, unless I'm missing something.

Edited Thursday at 06:31 PM by mannc

[DCofNC]

9 minutes ago, mannc said:

Not trying to defend the Bengals, who are a garbage organization, but why should they be in a hurry to deal Hendrickson?  Why not demand a ransom for him.  They can't afford to sign Chase, Higgins and Hendrickson, but those first two deals haven't gotten done yet, so they still have leverage.  Maybe the Bengals think someone will offer more for Hendrickson closer to Draft Day...there's no reason for them to be in hurry, unless I'm missing something.

They Should hurry up so Bills fans can be disappointed and move on.  Who really thinks they are going to trade for him and sign another big DE deal?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

31 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

So if you were a GM would you have waited till round 4 to select Crosby if you knew he was going to be that good, or round 3 for Hendrickson, or let Tom Brady go to round 6?  If your argument is that Beane needs to pick better and get that guy, then that tells me right there that all 32 GM's were all clueless as they passed on these guys and could have easily gone to another team.  To expect Beane to be that much smarter than 32 other guys in the room is totally unrealistic.   What it does tell me that these guys got lucky and so could Beane, but then you're betting 100% on luck.

 

I don't disagree with it being very risky to pay some elite pass rusher a ton of money, but to expect the Bills to select that elite guy when 29 other GM's had a chance prior it telling me you're putting everything on pure luck.

I hear you.
 

I guess my point is that unlike some other positions, you can actually find diamonds in the rough at EDGE in the draft more than people think. There are some other positions where it’s a lot harder and you almost have to use a top-10 pick (like QB and maybe CB), but I think DE is becoming more amenable to later round talent.
 

Guys like Crosby and Hendrickson are good examples, because scouts saw their potential, but they were a little raw and were from small schools and so were drafted a little lower.  (I actually think Solomon could fit that same mould, and may end up being a real stud).

[Logic]

27 minutes ago, mannc said:

Not trying to defend the Bengals, who are a garbage organization, but why should they be in a hurry to deal Hendrickson?  Why not demand a ransom for him.  They can't afford to sign Chase, Higgins and Hendrickson, but those first two deals haven't gotten done yet, so they still have leverage.  Maybe the Bengals think someone will offer more for Hendrickson closer to Draft Day...there's no reason for them to be in hurry, unless I'm missing something.

I think maybe I either didn't word my criticism properly or you misread it.

I'm actually criticizing the Bengals for not locking the guy up. For letting him negotiate a trade with other teams to begin with.

If I had Joe Burrow, I'd prioritize locking up his two favorite targets and my stud edge rusher and let the rest of the chips fall where they may. 

 

It's just like the Cowboys: waiting til the last possible moment and then playing contract chicken with their best offensive playmaker and star edge rusher. It's craziness.

[Low Positive]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

I think maybe I either didn't word my criticism properly or you misread it.

I'm actually criticizing the Bengals for not locking the guy up. For letting him negotiate a trade with other teams to begin with.

If I had Joe Burrow, I'd prioritize locking up his two favorite targets and my stud edge rusher and let the rest of the chips fall where they may. 

 

It's just like the Cowboys: waiting til the last possible moment and then playing contract chicken with their best offensive playmaker and star edge rusher. It's craziness.

Jerry Jones does this because he's a control freak who treats his players like hired help. Mike Brown does this because he doesn't have the cash to pay the signing bonus to circumvent the cap. 

[No_Matter_What]

3 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Hendrickson was a 3rd round pick. Watt was a very late 1st round pick. Maxx. Crosby was a 4th round pick. Chris Jones was a 2nd round pick.

 

its not like picking a QB. You don’t have to strike gold. You can get elite pass rushers in the draft. Just have to pick better.

 

just too risky for me to pay an elite pass rusher a ton of money. 

Your post proves that you don't have to "pick better", you need to be lucky af.

 

Players like those you mentioned are very few. To each Crosby or Jones there are 20 DL who are busts, below average, average or just good.

 

And also, even teams who drafted them passed on them couple times. So it wasn't like they were picking future HOFers, they just happened to be lucky.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

6 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Your post proves that you don't have to "pick better", you need to be lucky af.

 

Players like those you mentioned are very few. To each Crosby or Jones there are 20 DL who are busts, below average, average or just good.

 

And also, even teams who drafted them passed on them couple times. So it wasn't like they were picking future HOFers, they just happened to be lucky.

believe it or not, if you take a look

at the 2024 sack leaders (say, every player with 10 sacks or more last year), you will see a bunch of those guys were not super high picks. There are certainly some (Garrett, will anderson). But a lot of guys were outside of the top 10, and outside of the first round. You even had vet retreads like Van Noy in that list.

 

i don’t think it’s luck. It’s that there are more good edge rushers in drafts than people think. It also has to do with player development and scheme too.

[mannc]

34 minutes ago, Logic said:

I think maybe I either didn't word my criticism properly or you misread it.

I'm actually criticizing the Bengals for not locking the guy up. For letting him negotiate a trade with other teams to begin with.

If I had Joe Burrow, I'd prioritize locking up his two favorite targets and my stud edge rusher and let the rest of the chips fall where they may. 

 

It's just like the Cowboys: waiting til the last possible moment and then playing contract chicken with their best offensive playmaker and star edge rusher. It's craziness.

I agree that the Bengals have not handled it well, but I don't think it's possible for them to lock up Higgins, Chase and give Hendrickson a new deal, so they've got to make a choice.  Other teams know that, which of course reduces the Bengals' leverage...

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

I agree that the Bengals have not handled it well, but I don't think it's possible for them to lock up Higgins, Chase and give Hendrickson a new deal, so they've got to make a choice.  Other teams know that, which of course reduces the Bengals' leverage...

Well, Mike Brown will be quick to inform everyone that all three of those players are under contract with the Bengals next year. Nobody HAS to be extended now. 

[mannc]

17 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

Well, Mike Brown will be quick to inform everyone that all three of those players are under contract with the Bengals next year. Nobody HAS to be extended now. 

And that may very well be the Bengals’ strategy.  If so, I don’t think it will end well.

[Rigotz]

2 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

No one will agree. Don’t care. Pull the trigger

 

a rotation of

 

Hendrickson, Bosa, Rousseau, ________
 

is CRAZY scary.

 

3rd downs,  all 3 can be on the field

 

staggered 5 man fronts with Oliver and a rookie NT who can take a double team

 

DO IT

 

For a 1st round pick plus more? That's what Bengals are rumored to be wanting now.

 

That's a bad deal for a 30 year old DE who wants a new $30M/yr contract.

 

If was the rumored 2nd round pick, sure. 1st plus more? Nah.

 

[Mark Vader]

2 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

No one will agree. Don’t care. Pull the trigger

 

a rotation of

 

Hendrickson, Bosa, Rousseau, ________
 

is CRAZY scary.

 

3rd downs,  all 3 can be on the field

 

staggered 5 man fronts with Oliver and a rookie NT who can take a double team

 

DO IT

It's fun to dream.

[Warriorspikes51]

7 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

It's fun to dream.

right? Especially on sunny warm days in March

[Augie]

4 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Hendrickson was a 3rd round pick. Watt was a very late 1st round pick. Maxx. Crosby was a 4th round pick. Chris Jones was a 2nd round pick.

 

its not like picking a QB. You don’t have to strike gold. You can get elite pass rushers in the draft. Just have to pick better.

 

just too risky for me to pay an elite pass rusher a ton of money. 

 

A ton of money is one thing, if it’s a fair and reasonable amount. What the Browns do with contracts makes me wonder if they take the short bus and need a tutor. Nothing at all wrong with any of that, unless you are an NFL franchise.