Which high end free agent player or possible trade candidate do you most want right now?

[Prospector]

16 hours ago, BillsPride12 said:

This shouldn't even be a question...only one guy truly moves the needle 

From 6 to midnight huh?

[HappyDays]

57 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

We've been up there in defensive scoring and 3rd down defense several years in this regime.  A pass rush changes everything.

 

Yeah we were up there when White, Hyde, Poyer, Taron, and Milano were all on the team and in their primes... Elite coverage has always been the best avenue to success in McDermott's defense. His defense wants QBs to get the ball out quickly to a player that will be tackled right away. He wants the opposing offense to run the ball. Our defensive philosophy and play calling the past two years, especially this past season, have been different out of necessity not out of desire. The secondary needs to be the foundation of the rebuild on that side of the ball, not the DL.

 

So this is why I keep saying we are not one player away from having an elite defense. Benford is a great CB1 albeit less great than White in his prime. We have no CB2 on the roster. Both safety spots are up in the air. Milano isn't reliable. Taron took a step back last year, although he's still a good player of course. So all the positions that made us a top 3 defense a few years ago are now less than. Adding Garrett absolutely makes us a better defense but it doesn't erase all of the problems that made us a below average defense last year.

 

I think Bills fans have built up this fantasy that one elite pass rusher will make the difference the next time we face KC in the playoffs. This was exacerbated by the Philly Super Bowl win. The ironic thing about that is that Philly did not dominate because of one elite pass rusher. They had waves of good to great pass rushers that were acquired over a period of several seasons, supported by an elite secondary. My take is that everyone is taking the wrong lesson from that defensive performance, while simultaneously ignoring the fact that Philly's elite WR duo also helped them build an insurmountable lead.

[bigK14094]

I hope Bean and the Bills learned from the Miller fiasco.  A true swing and miss, and handicaped the Bills salary cap wise for 3 years.  A really bad move.  Lets see now, what are we talking about?  Oh yeh, another such move.  I am extreme suspicious that this works out well if executed.  The Bills need  to much help to give up the assets for Garrett, Crosby or Metcalf.  And, Parson does not belong in this discussion, he is a creation of the sports media pumping the Cowboys to get more viewers.  Parsons got eaten alive by the Bills a year ago.

[Luka]

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah we were up there when White, Hyde, Poyer, Taron, and Milano were all on the team and in their primes... Elite coverage has always been the best avenue to success in McDermott's defense. His defense wants QBs to get the ball out quickly to a player that will be tackled right away. He wants the opposing offense to run the ball. Our defensive philosophy and play calling the past two years, especially this past season, have been different out of necessity not out of desire. The secondary needs to be the foundation of the rebuild on that side of the ball, not the DL.

 

So this is why I keep saying we are not one player away from having an elite defense. Benford is a great CB1 albeit less great than White in his prime. We have no CB2 on the roster. Both safety spots are up in the air. Milano isn't reliable. Taron took a step back last year, although he's still a good player of course. So all the positions that made us a top 3 defense a few years ago are now less than. Adding Garrett absolutely makes us a better defense but it doesn't erase all of the problems that made us a below average defense last year.

 

I think Bills fans have built up this fantasy that one elite pass rusher will make the difference the next time we face KC in the playoffs. This was exacerbated by the Philly Super Bowl win. The ironic thing about that is that Philly did not dominate because of one elite pass rusher. They had waves of good to great pass rushers that were acquired over a period of several seasons, supported by an elite secondary. My take is that everyone is taking the wrong lesson from that defensive performance, while simultaneously ignoring the fact that Philly's elite WR duo also helped them build an insurmountable lead.

 

You aren't going to build a secondary that can hold up for 6 seconds in coverage. And I don't agree that he wants the other team to run the ball, some of our most memorable losses this regime have been against teams that have absolutely hammered us on the ground.

 

Benford's ceiling is Taron's replacement. He does not posses the elite athletic traits to play CB1 and it showed in the playoffs. For as much flak as Elam was getting, people were clearing missing Benford constantly a step or two behind his man. 

 

Controlling the line of scrimmage isn't a fantasy, it's how you win football games at every single level. This team can not do that currently on defense. An elite edge rusher is the answer to this problem. Takes pressure off of Groot and Oliver. Add in an elite interior lineman in the 1st round and the defense would be a night and day difference from last season. Philly was merely yet another example of an excellent front 4 winning football games.

Edited Tuesday at 04:54 PM by Luka

[Bills aPHILLYate]

13 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I hope the Bills don’t see Safety as all good to go.

 

Rapp is the Bills enforcer, but two straight post seasons he’s been hurt.

 

Cole “Lost in Space Bishop”, Hamlin is a FA, and Cam Lewis.

 

No playmaking, no speed (Bishop’s 4.45 was not evident on the field).

 

Bills to get two new starters back there with some ball hawking skills, size, speed, feel for the game. 
 

Rapp is physical in the run game, and that’s about all this group has going for it right now. 

 

This is basically why I'm slightly more in favor of DK at the moment. 

 

If we turned the reigns of the defense over to someone else to implement a more effective scheme (i.e. Fangio with the Eagles) then it's Garrett no question. 

 

This scheme has never shown to be championship level in todays game. It relies on the secondary to produce coverage sacks when in reality the opposite is what is needed and proven to be effective. 

 

We would have to add arguably 3 or 4 players for it to get to a consistent level of effectiveness instead of being highly opportunistic. 

 

DK seems like an ideal fit for this offense and more than likely transcends with any offensive scheme changes sure to come soon (Brady might be gone in another year).

 

Either way I hope we get one of the premium guys 

 

 

 

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah we were up there when White, Hyde, Poyer, Taron, and Milano were all on the team and in their primes... Elite coverage has always been the best avenue to success in McDermott's defense. His defense wants QBs to get the ball out quickly to a player that will be tackled right away. He wants the opposing offense to run the ball. Our defensive philosophy and play calling the past two years, especially this past season, have been different out of necessity not out of desire. The secondary needs to be the foundation of the rebuild on that side of the ball, not the DL.

 

So this is why I keep saying we are not one player away from having an elite defense. Benford is a great CB1 albeit less great than White in his prime. We have no CB2 on the roster. Both safety spots are up in the air. Milano isn't reliable. Taron took a step back last year, although he's still a good player of course. So all the positions that made us a top 3 defense a few years ago are now less than. Adding Garrett absolutely makes us a better defense but it doesn't erase all of the problems that made us a below average defense last year.

 

I think Bills fans have built up this fantasy that one elite pass rusher will make the difference the next time we face KC in the playoffs. This was exacerbated by the Philly Super Bowl win. The ironic thing about that is that Philly did not dominate because of one elite pass rusher. They had waves of good to great pass rushers that were acquired over a period of several seasons, supported by an elite secondary. My take is that everyone is taking the wrong lesson from that defensive performance, while simultaneously ignoring the fact that Philly's elite WR duo also helped them build an insurmountable lead.

So yes and no.

 

Philly’s defense was anything but elite last year. They had a really good draft with some very good contributors out of the gate, completely changed schemes, and their elite talent that they had acquired came online.

 

They also played the game of their lives in the Super Bowl. Honestly. That will probably go down as the best defensive game in Philly franchise history. It is also unlikely to be replicated by this same group.

 

There is an argument that with a killer draft of our own and a complete scheme change and a career year from some of our existing talent (Rousseau and Oliver), we could replicate that.

 

But the key word is “could.” We aren’t gonna change the scheme. So that’s one part that will not happen. The odds of the killer draft AND career years is extremely low. 
 

So really, the odds of replicating what the Eagles just did is very very very low. And thus I agree with your conclusion, it ain’t gonna happen. whether or not we get Garrett. 
 

The argument for Garrett is, “are we a handful of plays away from beating the Chiefs and could Garrett make some of those plays that may make a difference?” I lean towards yes, but it’s the same argument for DK. Which is why to me, they are coinflip acquisitions.

3 minutes ago, Luka said:

 

You aren't going to build a secondary that can hold up for 6 seconds in coverage. And I don't agree that he wants the other team to run the ball, some of our most memorable losses this regime have been against teams that have absolutely hammered us on the ground.

 

Benford's ceiling is Taron's replacement. He does not posses the elite athletic traits to play CB1 and it showed in the playoffs. For as much flak as Elam was getting, people were clearing missing Benford constantly a step or two behind his man. 

 

Controlling the line of scrimmage isn't a fantasy, it's how you win football games at every single level. This team can not do that currently on defense. An elite edge rusher is the answer to this problem. Takes pressure off of Groot and Oliver. Add in an elite interior lineman in the 1st round and the defense would be a night and day difference from last season. Philly was merely yet another example of an excellent front 4 winning football games.

Thinking we are gonna have a first rounder and Garrett is actually impossible.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You are ignoring the context when referencing drafting WR's.  Beane used a 1st and 4th to get Diggs, we had Cole who was in his prime and one of the best slots in the NFL while here.  Early on they nabbed Davis who began contributing as a rookie to go along with the Vets they had along side Diggs.  That is all very important context when referencing all those late round picks at WR.  The only guys they drafted with the intent to potentially be a significant contributor as a receiver were Davis, Shakir, and Keon.  All went on to be starters.  

 

But none of this matters in terms of the discussion on what the bigger issue about getting over the hump has been...which is without question the defense, and its not even debatable if I am being honest.  Getting an impact player on the defense that can help the defense just get off the field one or tow more times a game on 3rd down would significantly change the outcome of all our playoff exits.  Even just making one more play to get off the field on 3rd down instead of allowing a scoring drive would have swung our last 3 KC losses.  

 

And every time our defense gets off the field, our offense goes back on it with a chance to score.  So by improving the defense you are going to help the offense.  We need an impact player who is capable of affecting just one or two more plays a game and this team beats KC by double digits each of the last 3 losses.  

Beasley was 30 years old when the Bills got him, and John Brown was 29. 

 

So was it really shocking that Beasley dropped off at 32? He was out of the league in his age 33 season. 

 

And in a vacuum you might be right about getting a defensive playmaker - Garrett, Hendrickson or Crosby - working against the Bills is cap space, right now they sit at 29th - and they're now picking 30th in every round - so what kind of package is it going to take to convince the Browns, Bengals or Raiders to trade with an AFC rival over the Washington, Chicago, Arizona? 

 

Garrett needs a new deal. 

 

Crosby is $23M cash in 2025 and ~$20M cash in 2026. 

 

Hendrickson has 35-sacks in the last two seasons, and he wants a new deal now - maybe you can talk him into mid-high $20's? 

 

So, these are nice ideas, but can the Bills do this? And if they do - is Beane comfortable not re-signing Cook, Bernard, Benford, Rousseau? Because that's not how the team has operated. 

 

Let alone replace Amari Cooper, bring back Hollins and Ty Johnson. Unless Shakir is the #1 and we're back filling the room with rookies around him?

 

How are the Bills going to afford $18M - $20M a year for Rousseau, and $25M - $30M for a premier pass rusher? The Bills can make one more run with Rousseau in 2025, and franchise tag him in 2026, so maybe an extension is not necessary. 

 

You'd probably have to hold on Benford as well because his AAY is now $20M too - money and concussions. 

 

I think Joe Marino has said if the Bills pull all the levers they can they can open $76M in cap space. Mike Ginniti of Spotrac has said he doesn't see the Bills realistically being able to outbid teams for Garrett and Crosby. 

[Bills aPHILLYate]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

So yes and no.

 

Philly’s defense was anything but elite last year. They had a really good draft with some very good contributors out of the gate, completely changed schemes, and their elite talent that they had acquired came online.

 

They also played the game of their lives in the Super Bowl. Honestly. That will probably go down as the best defensive game in Philly franchise history. It is also unlikely to be replicated by this same group.

 

There is an argument that with a killer draft of our own and a complete scheme change and a career year from some of our existing talent (Rousseau and Oliver), we could replicate that.

 

But the key word is “could.” We aren’t gonna change the scheme. So that’s one part that will not happen. The odds of the killer draft AND career years is extremely low. 
 

So really, the odds of replicating what the Eagles just did is very very very low. And thus I agree with your conclusion, it ain’t gonna happen. whether or not we get Garrett. 
 

The argument for Garrett is, “are we a handful of plays away from beating the Chiefs and could Garrett make some of those plays that may make a difference?” I lean towards yes, but it’s the same argument for DK. Which is why to me, they are coinflip acquisitions.

 

This is a spot on summary. 

 

When it's all said and done there are compelling points to be made in favor of either acquisition. Nobody is wrong in why they feel as they do. 

 

Great discourse nonetheless 

[somnus00]

The question should be which high end player, not named Miles Garrett.

 

Having Garrett means we could legitimately say the Bills have the best offensive player, and best defensive player, in the entire NFL.

[Royale with Cheese]

38 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah we were up there when White, Hyde, Poyer, Taron, and Milano were all on the team and in their primes... Elite coverage has always been the best avenue to success in McDermott's defense. His defense wants QBs to get the ball out quickly to a player that will be tackled right away. He wants the opposing offense to run the ball. Our defensive philosophy and play calling the past two years, especially this past season, have been different out of necessity not out of desire. The secondary needs to be the foundation of the rebuild on that side of the ball, not the DL.

 

So this is why I keep saying we are not one player away from having an elite defense. Benford is a great CB1 albeit less great than White in his prime. We have no CB2 on the roster. Both safety spots are up in the air. Milano isn't reliable. Taron took a step back last year, although he's still a good player of course. So all the positions that made us a top 3 defense a few years ago are now less than. Adding Garrett absolutely makes us a better defense but it doesn't erase all of the problems that made us a below average defense last year.

 

I think Bills fans have built up this fantasy that one elite pass rusher will make the difference the next time we face KC in the playoffs. This was exacerbated by the Philly Super Bowl win. The ironic thing about that is that Philly did not dominate because of one elite pass rusher. They had waves of good to great pass rushers that were acquired over a period of several seasons, supported by an elite secondary. My take is that everyone is taking the wrong lesson from that defensive performance, while simultaneously ignoring the fact that Philly's elite WR duo also helped them build an insurmountable lead.

 

The game is won upfront.  A good DL masks deficiencies everywhere else if you can get to the QB.  Or not get pushed around in the run game.  

Yes one good, elite game changing pass rusher makes a huge difference.  

Take away Chris Jones off the Chiefs, even with all their talent, that defense goes down.  He closes games.  

 

I would say it was more of KC's offensive line being terrible than Philly's line.  Philly was a mediocre pass rush team.  The Eagles got to Mahomes, the Texans got to Mahomes...we didn't.  If we had that elite game changing pass rusher who stopped just one drive in our last 4 playoff games against KC...we win a few of those.  We were just one play in each one of those games and Myles Garrett gives you that.

 

Ignoring the fact Philly's WR helped them build an insurmountable lead?  Well yes they did but we also shouldn't ignore the fact Philly defense is the reason why Philly's offense got the ball so much.  The first 8 drives of the game....Philly's defense forced 6 punts, turnover on downs and an INT.  I think the Chiefs had 34 total yards by half time?  

 

Our biggest issue is we couldn't get off the field on 3rd down.  Garrett immediately helps that.  We had a lot of turnovers without a consistent pass rush.

 

 

[SoTier]

4 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

 

yes to all, and it is about time that Allen has the O-Line, running game and wide receivers, all at the same time, that a great quarterback and offense needs to rise to their ultimate potential.

 

 

No team can afford to pay a true franchise QB not on a rookie contract and give him a top quality OL and good RBs and good WRs at the same time ... unless they're willing to skimp on the defense.   You pay a QB like Allen or Mahomes to make his receivers better.  You pay your OLers to open the holes for the RBs, but more importantly, to stop the DEs/DTs/Edges from harassing your QB.  That's reality.

 

The Bills haven't skimped on their defense but they have had bad luck due to injuries to Miller, White, Milano, and Hyde in recent years, and that's what's hampered them fielding as good a defense as they could have had in the last two seasons.

 

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

We've been up there in defensive scoring and 3rd down defense several years in this regime.  A pass rush changes everything.  The QB, the people who protect the QB and the people who get after the QB are the only positions that go #1 overall.  It's been that way since 1996, Keyshawn Johnson was the last player selected #1 overall that wasn't a QB, OL or DL.  That's the value of these positions and Myles Garrett can single handily improve everyone on the DL.  We have talent on defense, we're just weak up front.

 

Sums it up perfectly! 

 

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Beane has skimped on DT for years and it bit the Bills again. 

 

The athletic disadvantage at Safety during the Ravens and Chiefs games was a problem. 

 

#2 corner has been a consistent thorn in the side going back Levi Wallace, compounded by Tre White's injuries and Elam being a bust.  

 

And ever since Von, Rousseau, Epenesa and Basham this team has been weak at DE as well. 

 

But WR has also been underwhelming in terms of the investment this GM has put towards the position. 

 

No need to rehash the names, but 8 WRs drafted in 7 years, average selection is 5th Round. 

 

And we know the Free Agents - Beasley was good for two seasons, John Brown was good for one season, and so Beane largely hangs his hat on the Stefon Diggs trade. 

 

 

 

 

 

This is simply untrue.   The Bills took Ed Oliver at #9 in 2019, only the second time they picked in the top 10 while Beane has been GM.   They have also tried to build a good DL around Oliver by drafting Epenesa in the 2nd round in 2020 (1st rounder went for Diggs) and Rousseau in the first in 2021.  In 2022, they added what they believed would be the one piece to make the DL one of the best by signing Miller.  For part of the 2022 season, it worked.   Injuries happen.

 

 

 

[HappyDays]

10 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Our biggest issue is we couldn't get off the field on 3rd down.  Garrett immediately helps that.  We had a lot of turnovers without a consistent pass rush.

 

In the regular season, yes. I have said the biggest positive of trading for Garrett is it improves our chances of getting the #1 seed.

 

In the AFCCG though that wasn't the problem. The problem was Mahomes and Reid doing what they always do against McDermott's defense which is to effortlessly pick us apart. Ball out in 2 seconds or less. Our contain rush sucked, our coverage sucked, our coaching sucked.

 

For me I want any big move the Bills make this offseason to be about maximizing their chances to finally overcome KC. That is where I become less enthused about giving up a bunch of draft capital and cap space for Garrett. I recognize his talent and his value, it's just not what I think is going to get us past the boogeyman.

[FireChans]

18 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

The game is won upfront.  A good DL masks deficiencies everywhere else if you can get to the QB.  Or not get pushed around in the run game

It does not if the first read is always open. 
 

The key to negating even a great pass rush is getting the ball out quickly to the first read if they are open. It’s how Brady used to pick apart some elite DLs.

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

In the regular season, yes. I have said the biggest positive of trading for Garrett is it improves our chances of getting the #1 seed.

 

In the AFCCG though that wasn't the problem. The problem was Mahomes and Reid doing what they always do against McDermott's defense which is to effortlessly pick us apart. Ball out in 2 seconds or less. Our contain rush sucked, our coverage sucked, our coaching sucked.

 

For me I want any big move the Bills make this offseason to be about maximizing their chances to finally overcome KC. That is where I become less enthused about giving up a bunch of draft capital and cap space for Garrett. I recognize his talent and his value, it's just not what I think is going to get us past the boogeyman.

 

The games that Mahomes have struggled have been because he was pressured all day.  That's the recipe to beat them.  

He didn't get the ball out the entire night in under 2 seconds.  There were times where he was comfortable sitting in the pocket.

That's what I'm talking about.  It's one or two big plays that we don't get on defense because we don't have a game wrecker.

[GASabresIUFan]

There is a ton of chicken vs the egg here.  
 

A pass rush getting home is much easier with an elite secondary as QBs have to hold the ball longer.  The opposite is also true.  An elite pass rush forces QBs to rush throws and make mistakes even if the DL doesn’t get home.

 

The Bills actually need help in both areas.  They need an elite pass rusher to compliment Rousseau, we need a CB to start opposite of Benford and we probably need a competent safety in case Rapp isn’t healthy or Bishop isn’t ready.

 

Unfortunately even if Beane can clear up $35 mill in cap space, it’s going to be hard to fill all those needs with top end veteran talent.  
 

My preference is to draft a high end CB and go after Garrett or Crosby.  I’d also try to find a value CB as insurance.  I’d also draft an edge rusher early to add depth in 2025 and replace Groot in 2026.  At Safety I’d look for a middle FA and sign him to a 2-3 year deal, and then let Bishop, the FA and Rapp all compete for the starting job.

Edited Tuesday at 08:32 PM by GASabresIUFan

[Low Positive]

8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

The games that Mahomes have struggled have been because he was pressured all day.  That's the recipe to beat them.  

He didn't get the ball out the entire night in under 2 seconds.  There were times where he was comfortable sitting in the pocket.

That's what I'm talking about.  It's one or two big plays that we don't get on defense because we don't have a game wrecker.

But that's not the only thing. Trey Hendrickson led the league in sacks and Cincinnati put up elite offensive production, but the Bengals missed the playoffs because their coverage was so bad. It all has to come together. 

[NoSaint]

14 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Part of me wants Myles Garrett but another part of me would be highly upset, hypothetically speaking if a stud DE goes off the board where we’re picking at #30.

it’s basically impossible to have a guy that’s predictably a stud DE go at 30

 

you are taking either character or injury risks or forecasting them to outshine their measurables there 

[JP51]

Bring back Levi Wallace LOL.... of course it is MG... 

[Gen2]

Was discussing this very topic over dinner last night.

 

IMHO, I'd like #1 either Garrett or Crosby. #2 while VERY talented, Metcalf has been known to be a bit of a flake. He was once known as "the Dennis Rodman of the NFL", so I'm a bit leery of him.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

34 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

No team can afford to pay a true franchise QB not on a rookie contract and give him a top quality OL and good RBs and good WRs at the same time ... unless they're willing to skimp on the defense.   You pay a QB like Allen or Mahomes to make his receivers better.  You pay your OLers to open the holes for the RBs, but more importantly, to stop the DEs/DTs/Edges from harassing your QB.  That's reality.

 

The Bills haven't skimped on their defense but they have had bad luck due to injuries to Miller, White, Milano, and Hyde in recent years, and that's what's hampered them fielding as good a defense as they could have had in the last two seasons.

 

 

Sums it up perfectly! 

 

 

This is simply untrue.   The Bills took Ed Oliver at #9 in 2019, only the second time they picked in the top 10 while Beane has been GM.   They have also tried to build a good DL around Oliver by drafting Epenesa in the 2nd round in 2020 (1st rounder went for Diggs) and Rousseau in the first in 2021.  In 2022, they added what they believed would be the one piece to make the DL one of the best by signing Miller.  For part of the 2022 season, it worked.   Injuries happen.

 

 

 

So Epenesa, Rousseau, Miller (Boogie Basham) are now DTs? 

 

2018 - Harrison Phillips (3rd)

2019 - Ed Oliver (1st)

2020 - None

2021 - None

2022 - None

2023 - None

2024 - Dewayne Carter (3rd)

 

55 Picks in the Beane era, 3/55, 5.4% have gone to DT.