UPDATE: DK Metcalf requests trade to a contender

[BillsVet]

4 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

The last two playoff losses were both lost by 3 points each, one by a missed FG, one by a dropped pass. The biggest reason for those two losses in my view was because the defense was decimated in 2023, and starting a linebacker who was off the street while going on vacation two weeks prior.

 

In 2024, Taylor Rapp was injured and replaced by a rookie, and the starting CB went out with a concussion while Mahomes picked on Elam the rest of the game. It wouldn't have looked so bad if the Bills had any semblance of a pass rush. Like I've stated previously, Mahomes had all day to throw while the Chiefs scored more points against that Buffalo defense than they had against any other team all season long.

 

If the Bills don't fix their defense, it won't matter a darn, who the receivers are.... like the saying goes... "defense wins Championships", and the Eagles just proved that point in the SB! The Bucs proved it too in 2020 in the SB against the very best team in the NFL the last six seasons.

 

Playoff losses have been blamed in part or wholly on injuries along the DL in 2022, the LB's in 2023, and secondary in 2024.  One year might be bad luck, two is OK, but three requires them to reflect on how likely/unlikely it is that they'll have some injuries by the post-season.  As in, how realistic is it to expect 11-15 defenders to be healthy 18+ games in?

 

And I've seen exactly no one here arguing against defense totally because they need both personnel improvements and more scheme flexibility on that side.    

 

This off-season is rather about threading the needle and getting the previous point addressed while finding 1-2 receivers (if it's not Cooper) who gives Josh a go-to player.  Because the last thing I want in the playoffs is more 3rd downs and short where he has to plunge forward/carry the ball, more meh receivers who can't get the first down, and seeing Mack Hollins need to make catches well downfield to convert.  

 

Feature an offense that will be scary in the playoffs.  It is the more reliable method of winning in the post-season and besides, Philadelphia and Kansas City have demonstrated that combined with a better coached defense pays major dividends.  

 

[Bills aPHILLYate]

2 hours ago, msw2112 said:

 

I completely understand your opinion that the Bills should not focus resources on defense because, it seems that regardless what they do, the defense ultimately fails in the playoffs, and as such better to go all-in on the offense.  If 29 points isn't enough to beat the Chiefs, then get more playmakers on offense and score 40.  So I DO understand your thinking and don't think it's out of line at all.

 

The Eagles are paying AJ Brown $32M per year and I think that Jalen Hurts may make more than Allen at this point and the Eagles just won the Super Bowl.  But Brown was not the reason they won the title.  It was the defensive line getting tons of pressure on Mahomes without the need to send any blitzers.

 

So in my opinion, if the Bills are going to invest big money in any non-QB position, it should be the defensive line and not WR.  Let Coleman develop and go out and draft some outside speed on a cheap rookie contract.

 

There is some nuance to the bolded sections that better represent why some are of the mindset of securing the offensive playmaker.

 

1. There's only one piece to go get on the offensive side. That one piece directly amplifies Josh's potential and efficiency during his prime. We will never get another Josh and I'm all for giving him top notch weapons to work with. DK is basically square peg to square hole.

 

2. Because it is only one piece, you can essentially toss almost every other resource into the defense this year and next honestly. 

 

3. Yes the defense needs a pass rush but the scheme plays a big role as does personnel. We need almost an entire overhaul of the front 4 save maybe Rousseau.

To use the Eagles success defensively is somewhat distorted because they had the luxury of acquiring 2 top 10 DT prospects in consecutive drafts while being a playoff team. This was after acquiring a top 10 WR prospect in addition to adding a top 10 WR in the league via trade. 

That's basically unheard of and will probably never be emulated again. 

 

But I am all for addressing the defensive side of things too, just let me stop at the store and grab this prototype WR right quick.

 

 

[GreenMtnBillsFan]

15 minutes ago, Bills aPHILLYate said:

 

There is some nuance to the bolded sections that better represent why some are of the mindset of securing the offensive playmaker.

 

1. There's only one piece to go get on the offensive side. That one piece directly amplifies Josh's potential and efficiency during his prime. We will never get another Josh and I'm all for giving him top notch weapons to work with. DK is basically square peg to square hole.

 

2. Because it is only one piece, you can essentially toss almost every other resource into the defense this year and next honestly. 

 

3. Yes the defense needs a pass rush but the scheme plays a big role as does personnel. We need almost an entire overhaul of the front 4 save maybe Rousseau.

To use the Eagles success defensively is somewhat distorted because they had the luxury of acquiring 2 top 10 DT prospects in consecutive drafts while being a playoff team. This was after acquiring a top 10 WR prospect in addition to adding a top 10 WR in the league via trade. 

That's basically unheard of and will probably never be emulated again. 

 

But I am all for addressing the defensive side of things too, just let me stop at the store and grab this prototype WR right quick.

 

 

That's a great point and I think it hits the middle ground that some people miss.  There's certainly a way to improve the offense and the defense in the same offseason and at the end of the day, the Bills need to just keep swinging at getting great players, whether they're veterans or rookies in the draft. Teams can provide a framework (like the Eagles), but at the end of the day, you can't replicate exactly what they did. Teams have been trying to replicate the Patriots for years and it never seems to work. As frustrating as it is coming up short, Beane and McDermott have a philosophy they believe can win them a super bowl, they just haven't gotten the right pieces and breaks yet to make it happen. 

[Aussie Joe]

If the Bills D improves and they can get more stops and get off the field more often … this automatically improves the offense  as it means the MVP gets more opportunities with the ball in his hands …

 

Last time I checked … 7 points you prevent the other team scoring counts on the scoreboard the same as 7 points you get for scoring …

 

The argument that the D is always lame as f in the playoffs so why do it anything about is an odd one …no coach would seriously undertake that strategy..

 

Having said all that … get Metcalf if you can … he is the kind of player they are lacking … re-sign Hollins and Johnson and you are just about done on O for 2025 ..

[Nihilarian]

More perspective...the Current state of the Buffalo Bills cap is in negative 10 million or so. Now, they can make some magic moves in restructuring and get that amount to around 30+ million without too much trouble.  DK is currently at 28.5 mill per...

 

So does Buffalo forget about any other free agents in signing DK? Forget about Amari Cooper at 12-15 mill, who will probably take a reduced number to stay in Buffalo? As will Von Miller I'd think. 

 

My thoughts, pay some of the players already with the team and go after some defensive help/talent, DL, Edge, S, CB. 

[Matt_In_NH]

7 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

The last two playoff losses were both lost by 3 points each, one by a missed FG, one by a dropped pass. The biggest reason for those two losses in my view was because the defense was decimated in 2023, and starting a linebacker who was off the street while going on vacation two weeks prior.

 

In 2024, Taylor Rapp was injured and replaced by a rookie, and the starting CB went out with a concussion while Mahomes picked on Elam the rest of the game. It wouldn't have looked so bad if the Bills had any semblance of a pass rush. Like I've stated previously, Mahomes had all day to throw while the Chiefs scored more points against that Buffalo defense than they had against any other team all season long.

 

If the Bills don't fix their defense, it won't matter a darn, who the receivers are.... like the saying goes... "defense wins Championships", and the Eagles just proved that point in the SB! The Bucs proved it too in 2020 in the SB against the very best team in the NFL the last six seasons.

2023 there was a huge deficiency due to injuries.....but blaming injuries for 2024 is ridiculous IMO.  Yes Rapp and Bendford got injured....but overall the Bills had all the rest of their starters from day one.   The Chiefs did not make excuses that Rashee Rice, Sky Moore and Mecole Hardman were on IR.  If you are going to always point to the one or two injuries then you will 100% always have your excuse in hand.  NFL football is a 100% injury sport.  Rapp and Benford should have been overcome, they are not the reason the Bills lost the game.

[GoBills!]

No thanks he is really good but not great, also he loses 2-3 fumbles a year and always never recovered them. We are big on turnovers, and I think for the draft capital and cap space he isn't a talent you can't find another way. 

Honestly I'd rather give up draft picks for the game changer on D and or WR talent. You get a guy cheap for 4 years vs paying 20-30 million for a player for the next 2 years and praying it works out unlike Von. 

If someone came to us giving a crazy setup for Cook or Kincaid I would listen if it meant we can get the WR we want or DE we want in this draft.

[L Ron Burgundy]

27 minutes ago, GoBills! said:

No thanks he is really good but not great, also he loses 2-3 fumbles a year and always never recovered them. We are big on turnovers, and I think for the draft capital and cap space he isn't a talent you can't find another way. 

Honestly I'd rather give up draft picks for the game changer on D and or WR talent. You get a guy cheap for 4 years vs paying 20-30 million for a player for the next 2 years and praying it works out unlike Von. 

If someone came to us giving a crazy setup for Cook or Kincaid I would listen if it meant we can get the WR we want or DE we want in this draft.

I think he'd be great with us.  Playing with Josh over Geno?  Yes please.

[BillsFanForever19]

12 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

The answer to c) is probably yes. But it will need some significant can kicking. 

 

So Metcalf replaces Cooper and Garrett replaces Epenesa in the starting lineup (effectively making Epenesa the replacement for Miller). Say they make that work and this regime is cool with Cole Bishop replacing Damar Hamlin as Starting Safety. We still need to find a starting CB opposite Christian Benford and a starting 1T to replace Daquan Jones, who is absolutely, positively toast. Not to mention smaller integral re-signings like Mack Hollins and Ty Johnson (who might not be as small as we'd like). We'd need to do all of that with little to no cap after those two moves and no pick greater than basically a 3rd Round Pick. 

[HappyDays]

7 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Now, they can make some magic moves in restructuring and get that amount to around 30+ million without too much trouble.  DK is currently at 28.5 mill per...

 

Come on man you know that's not how AAVs work. Or do you think Shakir will actually count $15M against the cap next year? The common refrain is that the salary cap is a myth. Maybe that should be rephrased to say contracts are a myth. The money is real, the accounting is made up. Metcalf is EASILY affordable for this franchise. We'll have no top tier contracts on the books other than our QB and our RT (and even that isn't the top of the top tier). All the moves they made last offseason were about setting themselves up for a splash move this year. It's time. They need to add another top tier player capable of pushing this roster over the edge.

 

Edited Tuesday at 05:29 AM by HappyDays

[BillsFanForever19]

18 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

In my view it wasn't the offense that let the team down as the defense allowed the Chiefs more points than they scored all...season...long!!!!! That is even against the 32nd ranked defense of the Carolina Panthers. 

 

Did you not watch the Super Bowl and say Man, I wish the Buffalo defense was that good? That Eagles defense gave Patrick Mahomes fits all game long and they did basically the same thing to the Washington Commanders the game previous. Seven sacks on Rams QB Matthew Stafford...you know, the guy who had all day to throw against Buffalo while scoring 44 points. The Bills had ZERO sacks on Stafford!!!!!!!!!!!

 

What do you guys want to see? The 2025 Buffalo Bills scoring 40 points a game? They cry like little kids when the Buffalo defense gives up 50!~

 

The Buffalo offense has changed from a dominant pass-first attack under Brian Daaboll to more of a balanced pass/run attack that scored more points in franchise history and got the QB an MVP trophy! 

 

Dude, go back and rewatch the games to see which side of the ball the Bills were weakest with, and the biggest reason as to why the defense was in any game was because of an unsustainable turnover ratio. The 2025 offense should be better as those WRs will get more time in the Buffalo offense while getting healthy from those injuries. 

 

Man, I just don't get why so many Buffalo fans don't see how bad that 2024 Buffalo defense was 11th in points allowed, 17th in yards allowed and on the pass defense 24th in yards allowed, 24th in TDs allowed...pretty stinky for a McDermott defense.

 

The 2022 Buffalo Bills were 7th in yards allowed, and 2nd in TDs allowed. And yes, injuries really hurt the defense at the end of the season, the last two years. At least they had a better pass rush in 2022 though. 

 

Did you read my post? I never said we shouldn't improve the Defense. That's obvious. My point was - an improved Defense alone wouldn't have overcome the Eagles in the Super Bowl, even if we had gotten past the Chiefs.

 

There's this idea that the Defense for Philly alone won that Super Bowl. That's not the game I watched. The Defense playing as they did, combined with the Offense scoring at will and putting the game out of reach early was what won that game. Them being able to pile it on made KC one dimensional and allowed the Defense to tee off and continue to impose their will.

 

Our Offense sputtered when it mattered in the Playoffs. If not for James Cook against Baltimore (and them making a bunch of mistakes) and the Chiefs - we'd have been nowhere. And against the Eagles Defense in that Super Bowl game? It would have went much, much worse. 

 

We cannot roll back Shakir, Coleman, Hollins, Samuel, Kincaid, and Knox and just hope guys are better this year when we have to get points.

 

An improved Defense alone may or may not have gotten us past the Chiefs, as they seem to have the answer for McDermott's Defensive Scheme and he refuses (or doesn't have the personnel) to run the kind of physical man coverage D that Philly ran. But against Philly's D that you saw? With the firepower we had (or lack thereof) we'd have been dead in the water. We couldn't even get the points when we needed it against KC's D - which Philly's superpowered Offense manhandled.

 

You want a title? Of course, we need to improve our Defense. But we also need guys we can rely on to get open on a regular basis and not drop the ball. Josh won the MVP bc he did what he did with the cast he had. That will get you an MVP, but it's not getting you a Lombardi. If he had more (and yes, an improved Defense), he'd have more hardware than that.

Edited Tuesday at 06:28 AM by BillsFanForever19

[Nihilarian]

44 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Come on man you know that's not how AAVs work. Or do you think Shakir will actually count $15M against the cap next year? The common refrain is that the salary cap is a myth. Maybe that should be rephrased to say contracts are a myth. The money is real, the accounting is made up. Metcalf is EASILY affordable for this franchise. We'll have no top tier contracts on the books other than our QB and our RT (and even that isn't the top of the top tier). All the moves they made last offseason were about setting themselves up for a splash move this year. It's time. They need to add another top tier player capable of pushing this roster over the edge.

Welp, if this is true, what stopped them last year from going hog wild? They let Leonard Floyd walk, Jordan Poyer, Siran Neil, Tre White, Mitch Morse, Gabe Davis, Stephon Diggs, and ate 30 million in cap space for that last one. Also Michah Hyde, Poona Ford?

 

They stop somewhere for some reason, while taking measured steps to bring in certain players. I think they are willing to only go so far with the cap, and from what I gather, they push cap money down the road by spending cash on players today.

 

I just don't see a Miles Garrett or a DK Metcalf in a Buffalo Bills uni, as I think Beane learned a lesson from Diggs. However, I do see a Kahlil Mack perhaps. Besides, Metcalf has the physical traits of a guy like Megatron and yet a second round pick and not a Megatron. 

 

Anyway, if the Bills add a big cap splash I'mma hope it's for the defense / pass rusher. Mile Garrett is a generational player like Bruce Smith was and would be worth the cap hit IMHO. At one time Denver offered two firsts for Bruce. 

[BillsFanForever19]

16 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

I just don't see a Miles Garrett or a DK Metcalf in a Buffalo Bills uni, as I think Beane learned a lesson from Diggs. 

 

You think bc Stefon Diggs went nuclear that means he'll never again make a move for a quality WR? He traded for Diggs knowing he was a bit of a head case. The risk was worth the potential reward and we got multiple VERY good years out of him. Metcalf (to the point) hasn't shown to be a headache. I don't see the correlation. 

 

I'll say to your point - I don't see a DK Metcalf and a Myles Garrett in the same offseason. There's far too many other holes we need to fill (namely starting CB and 1T) and players we'll need to retain in the coming years to dedicate two massive contracts that also require premier Draft Picks in compensation.

 

But a Garrett OR a Metcalf? I don't think getting 1 of them is unrealistic. But it would require a lot to win the sweepstakes and get them on the books.

Edited Tuesday at 06:54 AM by BillsFanForever19

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

I just don't see a Miles Garrett or a DK Metcalf in a Buffalo Bills uni, as I think Beane learned a lesson from Diggs. However, I do see a Kahlil Mack perhaps. Besides, Metcalf has the physical traits of a guy like Megatron and yet a second round pick and not a Megatron. 

Diggs had the most successful four year run as a WR in Bills history and that trade is arguably the best move Beane's made after drafting Josh Allen.  Extending him prematurely was the mistake.  

[GunnerBill]

14 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

Playoff losses have been blamed in part or wholly on injuries along the DL in 2022, the LB's in 2023, and secondary in 2024.  One year might be bad luck, two is OK, but three requires them to reflect on how likely/unlikely it is that they'll have some injuries by the post-season.  As in, how realistic is it to expect 11-15 defenders to be healthy 18+ games in?

 

 

 

The only year that injuries were a legitimate "excuse" for the Bills defense was 2023. They had significant cluster injuries all at the same time and were down to a 6th choice starter a spot. That is really hard to sustain against a high end opponent in the playoffs. Sure they have been unlucky to lose guys other years (and they have definitely suffered more serious season enders to their defensive stars than the average team - White x2, Milano, Von) but in a one off game in the playoffs being down a single guy isn't an excuse. Most teams will suffer that at some point. That's the attrition of the NFL. You gotta come through.

[Nihilarian]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

Diggs had the most successful four year run as a WR in Bills history and that trade is arguably the best move Beane's made after drafting Josh Allen.  Extending him prematurely was the mistake.  

Yes, it's that cap hit I was referring to. Seems like it hamstrung Beane from resigning some and adding some free agents last year.

 

I suppose Beane could give up 60+ million to sign both Metcalf and Garrett. However, how does that help sign Cooper along with the many free agents on the Bills roster? 100 million in the hole?

[BillsFanForever19]

9 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Yes, it's that cap hit I was referring to. Seems like it hamstrung Beane from resigning some and adding some free agents last year.

 

I suppose Beane could give up 60+ million to sign both Metcalf and Garrett. However, how does that help sign Cooper along with the many free agents on the Bills roster? 100 million in the hole?

 

If we traded for Metcalf - we absolutely wouldn't be re-signing Cooper. Metcalf would be taking his spot on the roster.

 

As for the other Free Agents, honestly the only other ones I'd want to see brought back are Mack Hollins and Ty Johnson. Pretty much everyone else on the list can be replaced with Day 3 Draft Picks, vet minimum players, or even UDFA's:

 

WR Amari Cooper
CB Rasul Douglas
FS Damar Hamlin
WR Mack Hollins 
RB Ty Johnson
FB Reggie Gilliam
DE Dawuane Smoot
TE Quintin Morris 
DT Austin Johnson
LS Reid Ferguson 
DT Quinton Jefferson
DT Jordan Phillips

 

To your point though, yes, we'd have to still find a Starting CB. And even though he's not a FA, we need to replace Daquan Jones as our 1T DT. And if we're doing two massive moves that would require not only a large amount of cap but also Top Draft Picks to require them - I don't know how you address those spots adequately.

[Kirby Jackson]

16 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Yes, it's that cap hit I was referring to. Seems like it hamstrung Beane from resigning some and adding some free agents last year.

 

I suppose Beane could give up 60+ million to sign both Metcalf and Garrett. However, how does that help sign Cooper along with the many free agents on the Bills roster? 100 million in the hole?

If you added Metcalf you wouldn’t be bringing back Cooper. Cap space is irrelevant moving forward. The counter to the cap space argument is, “what are saving it for?” This is exactly what you’d spend it on.

 

You address the rest of the roster throughout the draft and with cheap players. The theory is if you strengthen the top of your roster you can sacrifice the middle and back. Myles Garrett and Javon Solomon > Rousseau & Epenesa (for example). 

Edited Tuesday at 10:39 AM by Kirby Jackson

[Doc Brown]

26 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Yes, it's that cap hit I was referring to. Seems like it hamstrung Beane from resigning some and adding some free agents last year.

 

I suppose Beane could give up 60+ million to sign both Metcalf and Garrett. However, how does that help sign Cooper along with the many free agents on the Bills roster? 100 million in the hole?

Even if Diggs stayed on the roster there wouldn't have much difference in terms of signing or re-signing free agents last year.  Trading him for what now looks like really decent value saved us money against the cap this year.  Beane isn't as hamstrung this off-season to trade and sign a Metcalf or a Garrett as simple contract restructures could create more than 50 million in cap space depending how much he wants to kick the can down the road.  He's definitely not trading or signing both though and Cooper isn't in the equation of we trade for Metcalf.

[Ya Digg?]

5 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Welp, if this is true, what stopped them last year from going hog wild? They let Leonard Floyd walk, Jordan Poyer, Siran Neil, Tre White, Mitch Morse, Gabe Davis, Stephon Diggs, and ate 30 million in cap space for that last one. Also Michah Hyde, Poona Ford?

 

They stop somewhere for some reason, while taking measured steps to bring in certain players. I think they are willing to only go so far with the cap, and from what I gather, they push cap money down the road by spending cash on players today.

 

I just don't see a Miles Garrett or a DK Metcalf in a Buffalo Bills uni, as I think Beane learned a lesson from Diggs. However, I do see a Kahlil Mack perhaps. Besides, Metcalf has the physical traits of a guy like Megatron and yet a second round pick and not a Megatron. 

 

Anyway, if the Bills add a big cap splash I'mma hope it's for the defense / pass rusher. Mile Garrett is a generational player like Bruce Smith was and would be worth the cap hit IMHO. At one time Denver offered two firsts for Bruce. 

Out of any of those guys you mentioned, which one did anything of significance last season? The Bills may have let them go because of performance, not cap