Rank your Top 10 Bills QBs

[JP51]

On 2/28/2025 at 4:39 PM, Kirby Jackson said:

If anything it widens the gap. Do we think bigger, slower LBs chasing Allen is an advantage to Kelly? 

No, I do not think that at all... I do think though that the presence of larger humans in pursuit combined with a lack of protection of the QB would absolutely limit the game planning opportunities to run... I think actually, the change in the above has actually empowered the QB to use their feet...  so for instance, in the 90s I dont see Lamar Jackson winning an MVP... running QBs back then we are a gimmick... I look at the career of John Elway one of the most proficient... literally needed to change his game based on the fact that he was getting killed out there... so... I dont really "disagree" that there would be clear advantages to a QB that could run if he was facing slower pursuit... but the overall game planning of the era by an large stifled it....  QBs like Cam Newton who were literally MVP (now this is even past the 90s) literally broke down to a shell of themselves after taking the beating at the 2nd and 3rd levels....  So, in my thinking no I dont think it helps him even if it was just we would not have game planned for it because of fear of injury...  But, thats why I did the thread, The discussion is always interesting especially when you try to transpose QBs over era... 

[JP51]

18 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Safe to say, Jalen Hurts would be the best QB in Bills History then? Dilfer over Allen? 

So this honestly is a great example of why I wanted to do this thread... someone asked my what I based my top 10 on... and it was well... a lot of things, the eye test, success, stats, era, over all team etc...  but thats how I made my own personal assessment...  and honestly to your point why I didnt say rate your top 10 QBs based on over all success, or stats, or win percentage etc.... knowing some would base their opinions on a specific catagory, others impressions would be formed differently... I think mostly I am enjoying seeing how people arrive at who they like and what their own internal basis for ranking might be... I love there is no right or wrong here... 

[Chandler#81]

I’ve seen every one of them play since 1st ever pick Johnny Green (he sucked..)
 

1. Allen (1 WC, 5 Division titles, 2 Conference title games -in 7 years , still in his prime)

2. Kelly (2 WC, 6 Division titles, 4 SBs)

3. Kemp (1 playoff loss, 2 League titles in 3 tries)

4. Ferguson (1 WC, 1 Division title)

5. Flutie (1 Division title, 1 WC)

6. Fitzpatrick 

7. Bledsoe 

8. Harris

9. Lamonica 

10. Reich

Edited Monday at 05:07 PM by Chandler#81

[Low Positive]

Jack Kemp was a winner in his league and time, but his highest completion percentage while he played for the Bills was 50.3%. Jim Kelly, as great as he was, never threw for 4,000 yards in a season in the NFL. Yet, both were great in their era. That's why comparing stats across eras is a futile exercise. But those three are obviously the best three in Bills history. After that, we're just getting nostalgic about Joe Fergusson. He played for the Bills for a generation, but Ken O'Brien played for the Jets for a generation and nobody but Jets fans remember him.

[JP51]

13 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

I’ve seen every one of them play since 1st ever pick Johnny Green (he sucked..)
 

1. Allen (6 playoffs, 5 Division titles, 2 Conference title games -in 7 years , still in his prime)

2. Kelly (6 Division titles, 4 SBs)

3. Kemp (1 playoff loss, 2 League titles in 3 tries)

4. Ferguson (1 WC, 1 Division title)

5. Flutie (1 Division title, 1 WC)

6. Fitzpatrick 

7. Bledsoe 

8. Harris

9. Lamonica 

10. Reich

Harris was interesting and people forget about him, but I believe he was the first black QB selected to the pro bowl and also was the MVP that year... the first one to ever win a playoff game I think as well... I didnt put him on because really all of his success was on the west coast... but same with Lamonica...  

2 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

Jack Kemp was a winner in his league and time, but his highest completion percentage while he played for the Bills was 50.3%. Jim Kelly, as great as he was, never threw for 4,000 yards in a season in the NFL. Yet, both were great in their era. That's why comparing stats across eras is a futile exercise. But those three are obviously the best three in Bills history. After that, we're just getting nostalgic about Joe Fergusson. He played for the Bills for a generation, but Ken O'Brien played for the Jets for a generation and nobody but Jets fans remember him.

I dunno man, I think Jets fans are actually longing for Obrien and Todd... LOL...  I dont think Fergy was by far the greatest we ever had... but he did throw for 30,000 yards in running backs era... so he gotta be on the list... between 4 and 8 I think

[Low Positive]

21 minutes ago, JP51 said:

 I dunno man, I think Jets fans are actually longing for Obrien and Todd... LOL...  I dont think Fergy was by far the greatest we ever had... but he did throw for 30,000 yards in running backs era... so he gotta be on the list... between 4 and 8 I think

I want to say that is just due to longevity, but looking at QB stats from the 70's is really eye-opening. Even the top guys like Roger Staubach and Terry Bradshaw rarely cleared 3,000 yards and no one had a completion % over 60%. It really illustrates the greatness of Montana (over 60% almost from the start) and Marino (over 4,000 yards almost every year) as much as anything else. I was only 10 so I don't really remember it, but Marino's '84 season must have had the whole NFL world on notice.

[JP51]

5 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

I want to say that is just due to longevity, but looking at QB stats from the 70's is really eye-opening. Even the top guys like Roger Staubach and Terry Bradshaw rarely cleared 3,000 yards and no one had a completion % over 60%. It really illustrates the greatness of Montana (over 60% almost from the start) and Marino (over 4,000 yards almost every year) as much as anything else. I was only 10 so I don't really remember it, but Marino's '84 season must have had the whole NFL world on notice.

Quite honestly you can lump Griese and Theismann in there too ... 70s QBs were not typically all that and a bag of doughnuts... but the world didnt revolve around them either... it revolved around, Franco, Dorsett, Czonka and Kiik and Riggins .... then here comes Montana and Marino and Kelly and Moon and the game begins to change... I remember thinking Marino's 4000 yards was literally like OJ's 2003 in 14 games in terms of record and rareness...  now 4000 doesnt even guarantee a pro bowl... 

[Kirby Jackson]

4 hours ago, JP51 said:

I think mostly I am enjoying seeing how people arrive at who they like and what their own internal basis for ranking might be... I love there is no right or wrong here... 

So is it safe to say that this is a list of your 10 favorite Bills QBs vs. the 10 best? That would certainly leave the list more subjective. In terms of the “best” there are answers that are more right or wrong. As an extreme, it’s not reasonable to make the case for Losman ahead of Allen. In terms of your favorite, sure, you could pick that. In terms of the “best” there’s nothing that would support that.
 

That’s where I’ve been going with this, thinking it’s the “best.” If that’s the case Allen is 1 and that really isn’t debatable. Kelly is 2 and that’s probably not debatable either. Kemp is 3 and that’s probably not debatable. After that, there is some preference that comes into play. Is longevity more important than stats? Where do wins come into play? QBs play a big part in wins but ultimately can’t be judged only on that because so much of a game is out of their control. What about physical skills? There are a litany of ways that you can view a QB but you really can’t make an argument that anyone played QB for the Bills at a higher level than Allen. Kelly and Kemp would be next followed by the field.

[BRH]

On 2/27/2025 at 3:50 PM, Jamie Nails said:

Nathan Peterman

Gibran Hamden 

Billy Joe Hobert

Vince Young 
Matt Leinert 

Cardale Jones 

Thad Lewis 

Matt Simms

Jeff Tuel 

Alex Van Pelt  

 

I see that list and I raise you this one:

 

Bruce Mathison

Joe Dufek

Brian McClure

David Humm

EJ Manuel

TJ Yates

Matt Cassell

Dan Manucci

Matt Kofler

Brian Brohm

[JP51]

18 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

So is it safe to say that this is a list of your 10 favorite Bills QBs vs. the 10 best? That would certainly leave the list more subjective. In terms of the “best” there are answers that are more right or wrong. As an extreme, it’s not reasonable to make the case for Losman ahead of Allen. In terms of your favorite, sure, you could pick that. In terms of the “best” there’s nothing that would support that.
 

That’s where I’ve been going with this, thinking it’s the “best.” If that’s the case Allen is 1 and that really isn’t debatable. Kelly is 2 and that’s probably not debatable either. Kemp is 3 and that’s probably not debatable. After that, there is some preference that comes into play. Is longevity more important than stats? Where do wins come into play? QBs play a big part in wins but ultimately can’t be judged only on that because so much of a game is out of their control. What about physical skills? There are a litany of ways that you can view a QB but you really can’t make an argument that anyone played QB for the Bills at a higher level than Allen. Kelly and Kemp would be next followed by the field.

Not sure we are on the same page...  but thats good too ... It is who do you believe are the top 10 Bills QBs...  not the most accurate, or top 10 most yards... or all time winningest... etc... those,  we have stats for... the purpose is the subjectiveness...  Like comparing the greatest all time boxer... Ali? Marciano??? Leonard??? etc... you can measure punching power, W/L, KO's World titles... but those are listable... to me the goal was to see how people in their own subjective way rated them... across era, size, team, success etc...  because the truth of the matter is we will never know how Kelly would have done with this team and Fergy with that team and Josh with the other... so I thought it would make for an interesting discussion for everyone post super bowl/pre free agency... so far at least from my perspective the discussion and opinion yours very much included have not disappointed...  but as you mention it... I did a little exercise.. who ARE my top 10 favorites... so

 

Allen

Kelly

Fergy (took us to the playoffs for the first time for me as a kid)

Fitz - (just because he is Fitz)

Shaw ( was my first favorite player as a kid)

Riech (loved his guts and nerve played a great roll)

Flutie (cause he at least gave us hope AND got us to the playoffs)

Bledsoe (he at least gave us hope for a while)

Tyrod (cause he at least got us to the playoffs not sure about having hope)

Kemp (cause I heard the stories of how we won the AFL)

 

 

Edited Monday at 06:32 PM by JP51

[Kirby Jackson]

7 minutes ago, JP51 said:

Not sure we are on the same page...  but thats good too ... It is who do you believe are the top 10 Bills QBs...  not the most accurate, or top 10 most yards... or all time winningest... etc... those,  we have stats for... the purpose is the subjectiveness...  Like comparing the greatest all time boxer... Ali? Marciano??? Leonard??? etc... you can measure punching power, W/L, KO's World titles... but those are listable... to me the goal was to see how people in their own subjective way rated them... across era, size, team, success etc...  because the truth of the matter is we will never know how Kelly would have done with this team and Fergy with that team and Josh with the other... so I thought it would make for an interesting discussion for everyone post super bowl/pre free agency... so far at least from my perspective the discussion and opinion yours very much included have not disappointed...  but as you mention it... I did a little exercise.. who ARE my top 10 favorites... so

 

Allen

Kelly

Fergy (took us to the playoffs for the first time for me as a kid)

Fitz - (just because he is Fitz)

Shaw ( was my first favorite player as a kid)

Riech (loved his guts and nerve played a great roll)

Flutie (cause he at least gave us hope AND got us to the playoffs)

Bledsoe (he at least gave us hope for a while)

Tyrod (cause he at least got us to the playoffs not sure about having hope)

Kemp (cause I heard the stories of how we won the AFL)

 

 

We are on the same page if it’s 10 favorites. “Favorite” and “best” aren’t interchangeable. That was my question. 

[JP51]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

We are on the same page if it’s 10 favorites. “Favorite” and “best” aren’t interchangeable. That was my question. 

that we agree on... favorites and best are in no way interchangeable... my Mothers favorite football player was Tony Greene cause he was nice and helped people up after he tackled them LOL...  Best is more encompassing to me than 1 or 2 traits or results... so to me and must include stats, w/l era, over all success, talent and consideration of circumstance...  thats me... 

 

I think your definition of best is much more definitive and tied more to over all statistics.. and i can respect that view point... mine I think and many others are bringing in more than that... others... are pointing to over all facts...  we got into the same debate over MVP. (albiet a bit more confined because era was not involved). people pointed to Lamar Jacksons statistical year, others to Allen's leadership and overall team situation.... etc... and voted accordingly... neither were wrong and the discussion was interesting... 

[Kirby Jackson]

5 minutes ago, JP51 said:

that we agree on... favorites and best are in no way interchangeable... my Mothers favorite football player was Tony Greene cause he was nice and helped people up after he tackled them LOL...  Best is more encompassing to me than 1 or 2 traits or results... so to me and must include stats, w/l era, over all success, talent and consideration of circumstance...  thats me... 

 

I think your definition of best is much more definitive and tied more to over all statistics.. and i can respect that view point... mine I think and many others are bringing in more than that... others... are pointing to over all facts...  we got into the same debate over MVP. (albiet a bit more confined because era was not involved). people pointed to Lamar Jacksons statistical year, others to Allen's leadership and overall team situation.... etc... and voted accordingly... neither were wrong and the discussion was interesting... 

I agree in general. It was just a bit of a coin flip between the dominant year Allen had (with little help) vs. the slightly more dominant year Lamar had (with a lot of help). 
 

When I look at the top Bills QBs it’s a little more black and white. Josh Allen has been a top 3 QB for 5 years and continues to be. QB has NEVER been more important than over the last 20 years because of the rules. They have more impact on the game now than at any point in history. He has been one of the 3 best.
 

Kelly was rarely, if ever, a top 3 QB. He was to his era, what Hurts is to this era, a really good QB that won with an elite team. No one would argue that Hurts is better than Allen. So while it can be tricky to compare across eras because statistics change, look at where these guys are compared to their peers. Kelly was on a level of Moon or Aikman when he played. He was behind Montana, Marino, Elway, and the last few years, Favre and Young. Kelly was always really good but not in the top tier. Allen has been in the top tier for a while and doing it when QB is more important.

 

I’ve said my piece and it wasn’t directed at you. This was a fun exercise and is interesting. It’s a bit of a pet peeve when we underrate Allen and overrate Kelly specifically. The same goes for Bledsoe I guess lol. We have the best player in football. He’s the best player in franchise history. He plays the most important position in professional sports. Hopefully people enjoy the ride so that they don’t have to use the rear view mirror to reflect on how great this has been. Sure, we need a Super Bowl but we are witnessing QB play that we’ve never seen and will likely never see again after him. 

[JP51]

6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I agree in general. It was just a bit of a coin flip between the dominant year Allen had (with little help) vs. the slightly more dominant year Lamar had (with a lot of help). 
 

When I look at the top Bills QBs it’s a little more black and white. Josh Allen has been a top 3 QB for 5 years and continues to be. QB has NEVER been more important than over the last 20 years because of the rules. They have more impact on the game now than at any point in history. He has been one of the 3 best.
 

Kelly was rarely, if ever, a top 3 QB. He was to his era, what Hurts is to this era, a really good QB that won with an elite team. No one would argue that Hurts is better than Allen. So while it can be tricky to compare across eras because statistics change, look at where these guys are compared to their peers. Kelly was on a level of Moon or Aikman when he played. He was behind Montana, Marino, Elway, and the last few years, Favre and Young. Kelly was always really good but not in the top tier. Allen has been in the top tier for a while and doing it when QB is more important.

 

I’ve said my piece and it wasn’t directed at you. This was a fun exercise and is interesting. It’s a bit of a pet peeve when we underrate Allen and overrate Kelly specifically. The same goes for Bledsoe I guess lol. We have the best player in football. He’s the best player in franchise history. He plays the most important position in professional sports. Hopefully people enjoy the ride so that they don’t have to use the rear view mirror to reflect on how great this has been. Sure, we need a Super Bowl but we are witnessing QB play that we’ve never seen and will likely never see again after him. 

Whats funny is I think as I rate Allen number 1 I am also looking at where he is in his career and I do not think he has topped out yet... I also agree over all Kelly is a great QB but not as great as Bills fans seem to remember nostalgically, he was the one that lead us out of the abyss and into relevance... but the fact of the matter is that Kelly was never really even in the conversation for MVP... maybe 1 year... and if I am looking at it with complete objectiveness.. probably vasiilatted between 7 and 2 or 3 in terms of the top QBs  each year during his tenure...   But he was ours

[Kirby Jackson]

10 minutes ago, JP51 said:

Whats funny is I think as I rate Allen number 1 I am also looking at where he is in his career and I do not think he has topped out yet... I also agree over all Kelly is a great QB but not as great as Bills fans seem to remember nostalgically, he was the one that lead us out of the abyss and into relevance... but the fact of the matter is that Kelly was never really even in the conversation for MVP... maybe 1 year... and if I am looking at it with complete objectiveness.. probably vasiilatted between 7 and 2 or 3 in terms of the top QBs  each year during his tenure...   But he was ours

100% agree on all fronts. We may see another 6 years or so of Allen at this level. That would be an insane run. That range feels fair for Kelly and he led the best teams in franchise history. Those early 90’s teams were some of the best teams in league history. If that kick goes 5 feet left, they are considered one of the best teams ever instead of an outdated punchline. 

[JP51]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

100% agree on all fronts. We may see another 6 years or so of Allen at this level. That would be an insane run. That range feels fair for Kelly and he led the best teams in franchise history. Those early 90’s teams were some of the best teams in league history. If that kick goes 5 feet left, they are considered one of the best teams ever instead of an outdated punchline. 

very true... but your point on the QB play of Allen, I dont think we have ever seen anyone that was this good or could beat you so many ways... He literally dictates defensive coverages because his threat to do damage in the run game is 2nd only to maybe Jackson... so totally we agree we are witnessing something we have really never seen before here... and quite honestly I am not sure has been seen overall in many NFL cities... ever.