UFL to end traditional onside kicks

[SirAndrew]

I’d love to see statistics for injuries from onside attempts. It seems like a bad excuse to make the game more “exciting”. I don’t recall onside attempts being exceptionally dangerous. 

[frostbitmic]

 Copying a league that'll be gone in a couple more years is not a great business strategy, especially when what you're copying sucks.

 

To my eyes, I don't see where the new Kickoff play is any safer than the old one. It looks to me like more chaos and bigger piles of humanity and whatever they do in those piles. Either return to traditional Kickoffs or just place the ball at the 20 and get on with it... Then figure out what a catch is.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

65 yard FG attempt to keep the ball. Miss and the opposition gets it from the snap spot.

Edited February 26 by Buffalo_Stampede

[BigDingus]

12 hours ago, ControllerOfPlanetX said:

Not sure why they are intent on giving teams getting beat the whole game chances to win when they really don’t deserve it.

 

How does an onside kick mean a team is "getting beat the whole game?"

 

The exact opposite could happen, and the team going for the onside kick could've been in the lead most of the game, only for the other team to go on a tear at the end. Or it could be a back & forth game, only for a team to commit a turnover & get another score behind. Maybe it's just a team wanting to surprise someone with their pants down & kick an onside kick to start the 3rd quarter. Unfortunately, you can't do that anymore under the current rules.

 

Onside kicks have been part of the game for ages, only now they've been neutered to the point that they're practically useless.

[YattaOkasan]

16 hours ago, Saint Doug said:

A 4th and 15 from the 30 is an almost guaranteed throw up for a defense PI call. I don’t think officials would be able to help themselves. 
 

Edit: on 2nd thought, I think I would prefer a Hail Mary situation. Of course, this would mean the Bills lose another game a season. But these are more exciting than on-side kicks which usually don’t convert. 

Im sure there will be some DPI's that arent great that get called but I dont think itll be too bad.  It should be the same as many late game situation the refs currently have to handle with some regularity. 

 

Whats the diff between a Hail Mary and a 4th and 15 that is proposed?  Hail Mary's are mostly cause time is limited (as in last play of the game).  Trying to retain the ball post score does not necessarily have to be the last play of the game and so you can run a "normal" play (obviously its likely limited to a slower developing play because of down and distance).  

[Captain Hindsight]

I recovered an onside kick once in HS. I was shocked the ball came to me that I froze after I caught it. My teammate tackled me so I wouldn’t get blown up 

[Cash]

22 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Until now, teams had the option of the traditional onside kick & scrum, or converting a 15 yard 1st down (in one play.) The UFL will now only allow onside-by-conversion, but shorten the line of gain from 15 yards to 12, from your own 28 yard line.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/ufl-ditches-onside-kicks-for-fourth-and-12-from-the-28

 

Yikes. I don't watch the UFL, but at the NFL level at least, even 4th and 15 is terrible, and 4th and 12 would be outright untenable IMO.  The pendulum is already too far swung towards offense.  And while it seems to be swinging back just a tad, a rule change like this would push it even farther towards offense.

 

I dunno, maybe I'm old and out of touch, but I LIKE special teams and I don't think minimizing/eliminating them makes the on-field product better or more entertaining.

Edited February 27 by Cash
Double

[sullim4]

17 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

This proposal is way, way too much power in the hands of a ref. 

 

It's like letting a ref throw a flag to allow a team to automatically convert an onside kick. 

 

I think they need to treat the 4th and 15 (or whatever) sort of like a PAT in that the offense must convert it, because I agree with you that this proposal is begging for phantom holds and DPIs.  If there's a penalty... you retry the conversion after the penalty is marked off.  For instance, if the ball is at the 35 on 4th and 15, and a defensive hold is assessed, there is no automatic first down and the 4th and 15 conversion is now attempted at the 40 - 5 yards down the field.

[Brand J]

17 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

65 yard FG attempt to keep the ball. Miss and the opposition gets it from the snap spot.

I proposed a 64 yarder earlier but it wouldn’t be fair to the kickers who don’t have the leg. 
 

I actually love the punting idea I proposed, where a punter stands alone at the 50, only him on the field. He has to kick the ball inside the 5 yard line either out of bounds or it has to come to a stop there. Inside the 5, the offense gets the ball again. Extremely difficult scenario with an element of fun, although if the punters get good at it and conversions start happening at a 15% clip, I could see the opposition being pissed that they weren’t on the field to have a say in it.

[Orlando Buffalo]

I definitely prefer the 4th and 15 to the current version of onside, because the likelihood of injury is too high on the onside kicks, ala Benford. I really don't like the idea of the officials being flag happy but they already can't spot a ball that clearly made the line so is this really that big a deal 

[YattaOkasan]

42 minutes ago, Cash said:

 

Yikes. I don't watch the UFL, but at the NFL level at least, even 4th and 15 is terrible, and 4th and 12 would be outright untenable IMO.  The pendulum is already too far swung towards offense.  And while it seems to be swinging back just a tad, a rule change like this would push it even farther towards offense.

 

I dunno, maybe I'm old and out of touch, but I LIKE special teams and I don't think minimizing/eliminating them makes the on-field product better or more entertaining.

 

Yikes. I don't watch the UFL, but at the NFL level at least, even 4th and 15 is terrible, and 4th and 12 would be outright untenable IMO.  The pendulum is already too far swung towards offense.  And while it seems to be swinging back just a tad, a rule change like this would push it even farther towards offense.

 

I dunno, maybe I'm old and out of touch, but I LIKE special teams and I don't think minimizing/eliminating them makes the on-field product better or more entertaining.

its ~13% for 4th and 15.  I dont thinks thats terrible.  Yes some bad calls will be made but refs deal with these end of game long shot calls all the time and they get the majority correct.  We just remember the wrong ones cause they all happen to the Chiefs benefit (lol).  

[Cash]

1 hour ago, YattaOkasan said:

its ~13% for 4th and 15.  I dont thinks thats terrible.  Yes some bad calls will be made but refs deal with these end of game long shot calls all the time and they get the majority correct.  We just remember the wrong ones cause they all happen to the Chiefs benefit (lol).  

I see your point, but it doesn’t move the needle for me personally. 2 things:

 

1. We’ve all seen games where, down the stretch, one team’s defense is completely unable to stop the opposing offense. In those games, I think you’d see a conversion rate more like 40-50%, which I want no part of. 
 

2. Again, I like watching special teams, and I think the game is more fun when special teams matter. I know some people disagree. But for me, even if doing 4th and long gets you to a good outcome from a game design perspective, it still makes the game less fun to watch for me. 

[PromoTheRobot]

7 hours ago, Cash said:

 

Yikes. I don't watch the UFL, but at the NFL level at least, even 4th and 15 is terrible, and 4th and 12 would be outright untenable IMO.  The pendulum is already too far swung towards offense.  And while it seems to be swinging back just a tad, a rule change like this would push it even farther towards offense.

 

I dunno, maybe I'm old and out of touch, but I LIKE special teams and I don't think minimizing/eliminating them makes the on-field product better or more entertaining.

I think the UFL is there to test these rules in real play. Not a bad thing.

[Sgt. Ski]

On 2/26/2025 at 1:16 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

Until now, teams had the option of the traditional onside kick & scrum, or converting a 15 yard 1st down (in one play.) The UFL will now only allow onside-by-conversion, but shorten the line of gain from 15 yards to 12, from your own 28 yard line.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/ufl-ditches-onside-kicks-for-fourth-and-12-from-the-28

kind of like pulling your goalie with 2 min to go.

[TBBills Fan]

On 2/27/2025 at 10:05 AM, Captain Hindsight said:

I recovered an onside kick once in HS. I was shocked the ball came to me that I froze after I caught it. My teammate tackled me so I wouldn’t get blown up 

I don't believe you. 

[Charles Romes]

The onside kick is an historical part of the game. It was originally conceived of as a play from scrimmage where you would punt the ball down field and it was a live ball when it hit the ground. It was designed to open the game because a lot of people were literally getting killed just running into the line every play. It was introduced in 1906 with another new idea to open up the game - the forward pass.  Though back then if the forward pass was not completed the defense took possession. 

[PromoTheRobot]

9 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

The onside kick is an historical part of the game. It was originally conceived of as a play from scrimmage where you would punt the ball down field and it was a live ball when it hit the ground. It was designed to open the game because a lot of people were literally getting killed just running into the line every play. It was introduced in 1906 with another new idea to open up the game - the forward pass.  Though back then if the forward pass was not completed the defense took possession. 

 

How did it get the name "onside?" I have a guess.

[BullBuchanan]

On 2/26/2025 at 2:08 PM, YattaOkasan said:

Officiating is by far the biggest hurdle but i think 4th and 15 from the 30 is way more exciting than super unlikely onside kick.  I would rather see the best players with opportunities to make the biggest plays.  Onside kick is so niche, but a 4th and 15 is a executing a tough offensive play which should be very exciting.  Additionally, punts seem like better return opportunities than place kicks if you dont onside.

Except an onside kick actually makes sense in the context of the game,a s every kickoff features a live ball. A 4th and 15 onside kick makes the NFL look like some arena league.