Buffalo_Stampede Posted 11 hours ago Posted 11 hours ago 48 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: Exactly… some of these guys here would boo Santa Claus .. Never liked Santa Claus. He would break in homes and steal cookies. I mean what type of role model is that? 2 2 Quote
Brand J Posted 11 hours ago Posted 11 hours ago 12 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said: IMO He isn't worth 15 mill per year, period. That is the end of this discussion with you on this subject. Relative to his RB peers I would agree, I think his value slots around $12M/yr. But relative to his impact on the team I think he’s easily worth $15M/yr. People have argued that a great RB isn’t the driving force to SB appearances. Well, a great WR is even less of a driving force, yet an upper echelon receiver makes 2-3x more than an upper echelon RB despite touching the ball 2-3x less and without the added responsibility of blocking for the QB. There’s a great inequity between those two positions. With the way defenses defend nowadays, a Saquon Barkley is arguably just as valuable to his QB, if not more so, than a Jamarr Chase or J Jefferson. And we just saw Barkley reap offseason awards to prove that point. Quote
Buffalo_Stampede Posted 11 hours ago Posted 11 hours ago So Beane and McDermott are playing good cop, bad cop. Quote
harmonkillebrew Posted 11 hours ago Posted 11 hours ago 43 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said: I don't have an issue with extending cook - i have an issue with 15M AAV. As should anyone. Cap is going up, but that would be the 2nd highest in the NFL, above barkley, jacobs, and everyone but CMC. Let Bijan and Gibbs set the market, don't do it with Cook. If he's publicly saying $15/, we could probably get him for $13/. I think that would be reasonable given his value to us, the market and his upward trajectory. He'll be in the top 10 for the next few years after other get their due too. NFL is trending back toward valuing RBs. I mean I like Shakir but that contract seemed a little unnecessary. He's yet to have a 1,000 yd season and he's now top 25 in contracts. It's more in line with the type of contract you get on the free market as a WR going to a needy team like Jacksonville (see Gabe Davis, Christian Kirk). Not much of a home town discount for a guy with one year left on his rookie deal. 1 Quote
Logic Posted 11 hours ago Posted 11 hours ago If anyone -- even one single person -- dislikes this move, they'd probably also complain about a free lunch. Locked up a productive homegrown receiver through his prime for under market value. What's not to like? 2 4 1 1 Quote
EasternOHBillsFan Posted 11 hours ago Posted 11 hours ago 3 minutes ago, Logic said: If anyone -- even one single person -- dislikes this move, they'd probably also complain about a free lunch. Locked up a productive homegrown receiver through his prime for under market value. What's not to like? My wife doesn't understand the value of a receiver with the highest percentage catch rate in the entire league and why he deserved this deal... he's like Andre Reed without a James Lofton right now. Now to find the Lofton... 1 1 Quote
Low Positive Posted 11 hours ago Posted 11 hours ago 4 minutes ago, Logic said: If anyone -- even one single person -- dislikes this move, they'd probably also complain about a free lunch. Locked up a productive homegrown receiver through his prime for under market value. What's not to like? There is very little to dislike here. That's why this quickly became a proxy James Cook thread. 1 3 Quote
Einstein's Dog Posted 11 hours ago Posted 11 hours ago 14 minutes ago, harmonkillebrew said: If he's publicly saying $15/, we could probably get him for $13/. I think that would be reasonable given his value to us, the market and his upward trajectory. He'll be in the top 10 for the next few years after other get their due too. NFL is trending back toward valuing RBs. I mean I like Shakir but that contract seemed a little unnecessary. He's yet to have a 1,000 yd season and he's now top 25 in contracts. It's more in line with the type of contract you get on the free market as a WR going to a needy team like Jacksonville (see Gabe Davis, Christian Kirk). Not much of a home town discount for a guy with one year left on his rookie deal. Wow, to me you're all over the place. You don't like the Shakir deal which I love - yes, Shakir is getting G Davis money but Shakir has incredible hands and was a huge part of this offense. Secondly, you think Cook at $13 per is some sort of deal. Cook should be signing up for D Henry/J Mixon money - $8-9M. Instead Cook took to social media with a $15M claim. 1 Quote
BuffaloBillyG Posted 11 hours ago Posted 11 hours ago 1 hour ago, Fan boy '92 said: For who? For the Bills. Quote
TheWeatherMan Posted 11 hours ago Posted 11 hours ago Cook and Shakir are the only skill players on this team that show up every week. 3 1 Quote
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted 11 hours ago Posted 11 hours ago 3 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said: This is the problem with conventional thinking about any sport. The Bills score 30-31 points a game. That equates to about 4 TDs and a FG. To produce those points, the Bills need to average about 370 yards per game or about 6300 yards per season. Why do I care where the yards come from as long as I get the yardage? Why would I pay 15 mill for a 900 yard WR if I can get a 1400 yard RB for the same price who is effective in both the running game, protecting the QB and the passing game? There was 27 WRs last season costing their teams $15 mill or more in cap. Only one of the 27 produced 1400+ yards and only 3 produced 1250 yards. Only 4 of the 27 produced double digits in TDs. That doesn't seem like a good allocation of limited cap space. Add to that, having Cook back there or Johnson or Davis makes the passing game more effective too. When you have a top level great QB, the need to a #1 WR drops way off. Add a top level WR, the offense may generate a few hundred more yards but if the new guy gets 1400 yards, it means someone else(s) is getting around 1000 yards less. Quote
3rdand12 Posted 10 hours ago Posted 10 hours ago 24 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: Add to that, having Cook back there or Johnson or Davis makes the passing game more effective too. When you have a top level great QB, the need to a #1 WR drops way off. Add a top level WR, the offense may generate a few hundred more yards but if the new guy gets 1400 yards, it means someone else(s) is getting around 1000 yards less. We just want touchdowns. More of them. Lots more. Yards per player be damned ! Go Bills Go Shakir ! 1 Quote
harmonkillebrew Posted 10 hours ago Posted 10 hours ago 55 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said: Wow, to me you're all over the place. You don't like the Shakir deal which I love - yes, Shakir is getting G Davis money but Shakir has incredible hands and was a huge part of this offense. Secondly, you think Cook at $13 per is some sort of deal. Cook should be signing up for D Henry/J Mixon money - $8-9M. Instead Cook took to social media with a $15M claim. Hah. I love Shakir and agreed on an extension. It just seemed a bit high for a guy with one year left on his rookie deal. But I'm ok with it. Cook to me is essential for our new brand of offense nd I think he's more top 10 RB than Shakir is top 10 WR. The market is set by CMC's deal so Cook will probably get close to it. 1 Quote
SCBills Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago 1 hour ago, Brand J said: Relative to his RB peers I would agree, I think his value slots around $12M/yr. But relative to his impact on the team I think he’s easily worth $15M/yr. People have argued that a great RB isn’t the driving force to SB appearances. Well, a great WR is even less of a driving force, yet an upper echelon receiver makes 2-3x more than an upper echelon RB despite touching the ball 2-3x less and without the added responsibility of blocking for the QB. There’s a great inequity between those two positions. With the way defenses defend nowadays, a Saquon Barkley is arguably just as valuable to his QB, if not more so, than a Jamarr Chase or J Jefferson. And we just saw Barkley reap offseason awards to prove that point. Ok, but we don’t have Saquon Barkley. The reason a Khalil Shakir makes 15M and people think it’s a team friendly deal is because it’s not easy to find Khalil Shakir’s. WR is more plug and play than ever, but you still have a ton of swing and misses at the position.. even with premium picks. RB, not as difficult to find outside the truly elite.. of which James Cook is not… and you mention pass pro, which Cook isn’t good at anyway. Quote
NewEra Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago 4 hours ago, MikePJ76 said: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6159126/2025/02/25/bills-khalil-shakir-contract-extension/ What stands out most about Shakir’s on-field ability was his consistency, dependability when targeted and underrated run-after-catch ability. While Shakir primarily lined up as the slot receiver, he also did much more than just work the middle areas of the field. He was a critical target on wide receiver screens to try and spread out a defense. When plays broke down, and Allen needed to improvise, Shakir showed a terrific knack for finding open space and, even at times, getting behind the defense for a big play. On top of all that, his contact balance to fight through tackle attempts is one of the best in the league. While he isn’t the flashy receiver with gaudy stats, his consistency reflects the perfect embodiment of the type of glue guy the Bills have tried to keep since head coach Sean McDermott and general manager Brandon Beane arrived in 2017. A quintessential chain mover. Maximizes every opportunity. 1 Quote
Brand J Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago 4 minutes ago, SCBills said: Ok, but we don’t have Saquon Barkley. The reason a Khalil Shakir makes 15M and people think it’s a team friendly deal is because it’s not easy to find Khalil Shakir’s. WR is more plug and play than ever, but you still have a ton of swing and misses at the position.. even with premium picks. RB, not as difficult to find outside the truly elite.. of which James Cook is not… and you mention pass pro, which Cook isn’t good at anyway. There has never been a point in the NFL where WR has been more bountiful as it is now. It’s the inverse of RB, where the league used to be filled with good backs and the emphasis was on the running game. The best athletes used to play RB, now receivers get the money. You can find a Shakir in the 5th round relatively easy now. I mean, Amon Ra went in the 4th. Nacua, Adams, Hill, Diggs, all in the 5th, etc. WRs are even easier to find than RBs. I’m happy with the re-sign, but Shakir is not some elite, hard to find player. A deal got done because it’s a good contract for all parties, perhaps even a bit of an underpay for Shakir. My whole argument is that there’s an inequity between WR and RB contracts, but that may begin to change with the amount of receivers coming in and immediately contributing and the defense’s goal to defend the pass. 1 Quote
DCofNC Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago 6 hours ago, Magox said: It's a negotiating ploy, he's trying to maximize and I don't begrudge the man for doing so. This is most likely going to be the last time in his life to have a shot at making legacy defining sort of money. The way I saw it was that by him throwing that $15M a year number around, that was his beginning asking amount. I think they will get a deal in for less than that. What is also going to effect his FA value is that this is a potentially historic year for RB's coming out in the draft this year. Many think this could be one of the best RB drafts ever, so his value will be impacted by that. I think they get the deal done at around $12M AAV To be clear, he has minimal trade value because of the draft class and team’s unwillingness to pay RBs, BUT you suggest we should make him one of the highest paid back in the league, while we also need a 3rd down back bc he can’t block and his hands are suspect at best. I just can’t see how anyone could argue. Quote
billsfan89 Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago A very very good resigning. 15 million a year for a high end slot WR (if not one of the best slot WR's in the league) is a more than fair price esp since he's going to still be on his rookie deal this season and that is going to make the contract a much smaller percentage of the cap in 2026 as the cap continues to climb. I also like the idea of rewarding a play whose worked hard and developed. Reminds me of the Brown resigning early last season. I think by the end of 2025 we are going to be looking at this contract as a tremendous value. 1 Quote
DCofNC Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago Just now, billsfan89 said: A very very good resigning. 15 million a year for a high end slot WR (if not one of the best slot WR's in the league) is a more than fair price esp since he's going to still be on his rookie deal this season and that is going to make the contract a much smaller percentage of the cap in 2026 as the cap continues to climb. I also like the idea of rewarding a play whose worked hard and developed. Reminds me of the Brown resigning early last season. I think by the end of 2025 we are going to be looking at this contract as a tremendous value. from a production standpoint, it may not be a super value, but his value to the team is unquestioned. Quote
SCBills Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago (edited) 14 minutes ago, Brand J said: There has never been a point in the NFL where WR has been more bountiful as it is now. It’s the inverse of RB, where the league used to be filled with good backs and the emphasis was on the running game. The best athletes used to play RB, now receivers get the money. You can find a Shakir in the 5th round relatively easy now. I mean, Amon Ra went in the 4th. Nacua, Adams, Hill, Diggs, all in the 5th, etc. WRs are even easier to find than RBs. I’m happy with the re-sign, but Shakir is not some elite, hard to find player. A deal got done because it’s a good contract for all parties, perhaps even a bit of an underpay for Shakir. My whole argument is that there’s an inequity between WR and RB contracts, but that may begin to change with the amount of receivers coming in and immediately contributing and the defense’s goal to defend the pass. I didn’t say Shakir is elite. James Cook is a tier 2 RB and Shakir may or may not be that at Slot WR. You named some outliers but it doesn’t change the fact that, even now, it’s much tougher to find WR’s than RB’s. In Shakir’s draft class, guys like Treylon Burks, Jahan Dotson, John Metchie, Danny Gray, Jalen Tolbert and Skyy Moore were taken early and often. There are a ton of swing/misses at WR every year. We also have an elite QB and elite OL.. for a team like us, paying 10-15M for a RB makes even less sense. Paying 15M for a class act, reliably good slot WR who has insane chemistry with Josh Allen does make sense. Approaching 20M for Shakir.. no.. but this one came in at a solid number. Edited 9 hours ago by SCBills Quote
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