Tush Push Ban

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Chaos said:

why is that not earning it?

Because the guys up front should be charged with making a block that creates an opening for the runner, not just have a guy be shoved from behind to overwhelm the D linemen.  If I wanted to watch rugby, I’d watch rugby.

[Mr. WEO]

It's a QB sneak.  Why ban it?  What would be the logic that it has to go?

[Simon]

23 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

It's a QB sneak.  Why ban it?  What would be the logic that it has to go?

 

I'd guess people see it as boring and predictable and the league doesn't want that. Although that would sort of conflict with their ongoing mission of helping offenses in any way they can think of.

They're not going to ban any formations or play calls, but they could rescind the rule change from twenty years ago in which it became legal to push a runner while still being illegal to pull him or "grasp" him. Just make aiding the runner a penalty again with no caveats re: pushing, pulling , etc.

Hell, they don't enforce that anyways; we've seen Dawkins and Brown grabbing guys by the shoulder pads and pulling them forward multiple times. 🤷‍♂️

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I'd guess people see it as boring and predictable and the league doesn't want that. Although that would sort of conflict with their ongoing mission of helping offenses in any way they can think of.

They're not going to ban any formations or play calls, but they could rescind the rule change from twenty years ago in which it became legal to push a runner while still being illegal to pull him or "grasp" him. Just make aiding the runner a penalty again, with no caveats re: pushing, pulling , etc.

Hell, they don't enforce that anyways; we've seen Dawkins and Brown grabbing guys by the shoulder pads and pulling them forward multiple times. 🤷‍♂️

 

yeah, it's such an insignificant portion of the game, all in all.  But it's a legit play--the proof is that not every team can consistently pull it off.  It's certainly defensible.  

 

pure old football.  line v. line. "the trenches"

 

 

[Simon]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

pure old football.  line v. line. "the trenches"

 

It is mostly that, but the DL is at a definite disadvantage when the O is allowed to add extra mass with another layer of blockers behind the ballcarrier.

I agree with the insignificant observation, as I can't seem to get myself to care much about it either way.

[T master]

I've often thought or i should say hoped that Josh or any other player for that matter wouldn't get a injury because of that play . I dig that teams can impose their will on another team even though they know it's coming but the force of those 300+ lb men pushing on each other has to be immense ! 

 

So with the NFL trying to stop injury to players due to certain plays i feel that alls it will take is 1 huge money making player like a Josh, Mahomes, or Hurts to get a injury from the play that they use more than any others and the consideration of implementing a new rule to stop it could happen quicker then but until then Tush Push into the future !! 

[Warriorspikes51]

The play should be banned due to how annoying the name of it is 

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

It is mostly that, but the DL is at a definite disadvantage when the O is allowed to add extra mass with another layer of blockers behind the ballcarrier.

I agree with the insignificant observation, as I can't seem to get myself to care much about it either way.

 

It's a play where the D absolutely knows it's coming--they just don't know the snap count.  The Eagles success at it has dropped every season since 2022. 

 

Leaguewide, it's down to 74%, whereas, for example, all 3rd down conversions of 1 yard to go or less are at 70% for run plays. As a short yardage/conversion run play, it's not an outlier in it's success.

[Simon]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

It's a play where the D absolutely knows it's coming

 

At the risk of misappropriating Denzel, it's not what you know, it's what you can prove.

The mass disadvantage is only cancelled out by fully committing your entire front 7+ directly to the LOS, which leaves you intolerably vulnerable everywhere else.

I'm doubtful the league actually does anything, partly because they want to give offenses every advantage and partly because it's success rate is becoming negligible as you've pointed out.

The only thing I find remotely interesting about it is that it can tend to point up which teams are willingly to be innovative in how they execute and defend it.

[Gugny]

13 hours ago, Utah John said:

More and more the past two years, I've seen ball carriers getting assists 10 yards downfield, when they're pretty much stopped and then some lineman comes barreling into the pile.  I don't like that.  

I agree with this. 
 

It’s not good football. 
 

This … is good football …

 

 

[Fleezoid]

13 hours ago, Utah John said:

More and more the past two years, I've seen ball carriers getting assists 10 yards downfield, when they're pretty much stopped and then some lineman comes barreling into the pile.  I don't like that.  

 

If I remember correctly, there was a rule many years ago, you couldn't assist the ball carrier in any way. So that would have been illegal back then. Or my memory may be deceiving me. 

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Fleezoid

[That's No Moon]

16 hours ago, ngbills said:

Any guess which NFL is calling for the tush push ban? My money is on KC...

 

No reason to ban it, but I am all for finding a new name and not allowing it to be called tush push.

Pushing a ball carrier like that was made illegal a VERY long time ago because people were getting seriously injured and killed playing football. It's a good rule with valid underpinning and that play, and all aiding of the runner that way should be illegal again as it was for decades.

[Just in Atlanta]

I'm not sure what's going on here, or why McD is rallying against it for "player safety". The facts don't back that up:
 

Injury rates are about 2.5% on this play, depending on your source. That is exponentially smaller than the average injury rate rate per play NFL wide.

 

What is McD's angle here? Especially since Josh, sans the KC playoff game, has historically run that play to perfection?

[SoMAn]

16 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I actually think it ought to be banned. It’s just not a skill play.

 

It is.
Their big boys against ours. A reverse tug-of-war. 
I kind of agree that it’s not really in the spirit of traditionally accepted football skills, but fans like it, so it probably stays. 
Clocking the ball to swap a down for a time out isn’t in the spirit of the game, but it’s become part of time management in desperate situations. 
I won’t be surprised if the NFL revises or enforces the runners be aided by a group of their Offensive teammates. 
They’re not supposed to be pulled forward, but I’ve seen it done numerous times and haven’t seen it flagged. 

[Big Turk]

17 hours ago, ngbills said:

Any guess which NFL is calling for the tush push ban? My money is on KC...

 

No reason to ban it, but I am all for finding a new name and not allowing it to be called tush push.

 

I mean their QB can't even do a basic sneak without dislocating a kneecap.

[mannc]

17 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I actually think it ought to be banned. It’s just not a skill play.

 

It absolutely should be banned.  For 100 years it was illegal for the offense to “aid the runner”, and now all of a sudden it’s ok?  It’s a rugby play, not a football play.  It does not belong in the game.

[Sestak4ever]

In the past, wasn’t there a ruling that a runner could not be assisted by pushing or pulling? I think that used to be the case.

[colin]

we don't even run a tush push, we just do a qb sneak to the left.  we really should develop that play to have misdirection, alternatives, and an actual push.

[Simon]

28 minutes ago, Sestak4ever said:

In the past, wasn’t there a ruling that a runner could not be assisted by pushing or pulling? I think that used to be the case.

 

Yeah, they amended it about 20 yrs ago to only disallow pulling and grasping, with no mention of pushing.

28 minutes ago, colin said:

we don't even run a tush push, we just do a qb sneak to the left.  we really should develop that play to have misdirection, alternatives, and an actual push.

 

What, you don't like our scrawny TE with a torn PCL pushing Allen on one leg?

[JP51]

They dont really even need to ban it... they just need to say on a run from the line of scrimmage snap the player cannot be pushed from behind... that will limit it significantly.