Revisiting 2024 draft

[Cray51]

16 minutes ago, Pete said:

Red Pill or Blue Pill?  Many dislike NFL.com Bills 30th draft rating.  Do you want a participation trophy?  Someone please try and convince me that the 2024 draft is above a D?  Please look at other teams drafts, and get back to me.  I don’t need 3 years to figure out Bowers, Nabors, or Brian Thomas will be great draft picks 

Yea I don't disagree that the Bills didnt get much from their rookies.  Bishop did have 10 tackles in the AFC Championship game, but injuries really derailed these guys.

 

It's funny about your last comment, you list 3 guys that were all picked before we went....  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

8 minutes ago, wppete said:

Keon body language in the playoffs was awful. Going half speed some plays and looked like he was done. Not happy with that pick….. Davis and Grable i think will be solid players for this team. The rest i don’t really have many expectations for. 

He's getting quite the pass from some fans on here for the wrist injury - and I know Beane said he was disappointed - but weeks after that injury which was a wrist, not his legs - they tried going to him a lot in that Week 17 game, and backup QB or not, he could not get any separation whatsoever from any Patriots cornerback and Gonzalez left that game early on. 

 

2 catches, 10 targets - he was blanketed. 

 

Towards the end of the year the throws attempted to him where low percentage fade balls where Allen had to put it high and away so it wouldn't get picked off. He had 19 deep passes and what the stat - 4 completions? 

[wppete]

3 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

He's getting quite the pass from some fans on here for the wrist injury - and I know Beane said he was disappointed - but weeks after that injury which was a wrist, not his legs - they tried going to him a lot in that Week 17 game, and backup QB or not, he could not get any separation whatsoever from any Patriots cornerback and Gonzalez left that game early on. 

 

2 catches, 10 targets - he was blanketed. 

 

Towards the end of the year the throws attempted to him where low percentage fade balls where Allen had to put it high and away so it wouldn't get picked off. He had 19 deep passes and what the stat - 4 completions? 

Yea completely agree… in the playoffs he just seemed frustrated he couldn’t get separation and was sulking. Really bad look. It seemed like he wasn’t going full speed on many plays. He needs to grow up and mature or he wont last long. 

[The Jokeman]

6 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

He's getting quite the pass from some fans on here for the wrist injury - and I know Beane said he was disappointed - but weeks after that injury which was a wrist, not his legs - they tried going to him a lot in that Week 17 game, and backup QB or not, he could not get any separation whatsoever from any Patriots cornerback and Gonzalez left that game early on. 

 

2 catches, 10 targets - he was blanketed. 

 

Towards the end of the year the throws attempted to him where low percentage fade balls where Allen had to put it high and away so it wouldn't get picked off. He had 19 deep passes and what the stat - 4 completions? 

Part of that is on Keon no doubt but also everyone knows longer passes have a lesser success rate in most cases. Keon did show he can outrun defenders and can be a playmaker when the ball is in his hands. Hopefully in 2025 our offense can evolve and allow Keon more chances to get the ball in space with more slants and curls, flats and digs.  

Edited Wednesday at 02:35 PM by The Jokeman

[Straight Hucklebuck]

34 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Part of that is on Keon no doubt but also everyone knows longer passes have a lesser success rate in most cases. Keon did show he can outrun defenders and can be a playmaker when the ball is in his hands. Hopefully in 2025 our offense can evolve and allow Keon more chances to get the ball in space with more slants and curls, flats and digs.  

I think he has to work on his speed first and foremast. 

 

Donald Driver talked about this that speed can be improved, explosion can be improved. 

 

Christian McCaffrey has talked about this as the basis for his training (not that it has helped his injuries). 

 

LaDainian Tomlinson talked about how a back to basics hard weights program gave him a year of juice back with the Jets. 

 

Then I'd guess he can work with a route coach on how to reduce the stuttering extra steps and open chests for better releases.

 

Otherwise he'll get a steady diet of press man and he'll flounder until the team moves him into the slot, which displaces Shakir. 

 

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

45 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Part of that is on Keon no doubt but also everyone knows longer passes have a lesser success rate in most cases. Keon did show he can outrun defenders and can be a playmaker when the ball is in his hands. Hopefully in 2025 our offense can evolve and allow Keon more chances to get the ball in space with more slants and curls, flats and digs.  

 

That should have have been a surprise though. That is who he was in college.

[SCBills]

I have to remind myself that I started thinking Keon had Tee Higgins potential before the injury..  He truly was showing promise.

 

Post-injury, just like Carter, he was downright awful.  

 

One thing is for sure, he needs to work on route running and we need to diversify his route tree.  Having him run go routes with the corner having zero concern of him going anywhere else but down the sideline isn't going to lead too much of anything worthwhile.

[uticaclub]

19 hours ago, Dat said:

Keon just had twice as many yards as a former Bills 1st round pick (24th) did in each of his first two years and the word “bust” was used. In year three Moulds went off for 1368 yards and multiple 1000 yd seasons. Way too soon to write these draft picks off. Not saying they will be hits but they might.

 

It’s easy to play captain hindsight shoulda woulda and a lot is just plain luck. Go back and look at 10 years of 1-2 round picks of all teams and see how many were hits vs misses. Heck the bills prior regime had Shaw Lawson, Reggie Ragland, none, Ronald Darby, 2 for Watkins, Cyrus “naked in a field” Kuandjio, EJ Manuel, Robert Woods.

Robert Woods & Ronald Darby are better than anyone we drafted the last 3 years

[uticaclub]

3 hours ago, DCofNC said:

Says you.  They could have made a trade, others managed it.  They did not.  Beane wasted a third round pick on a mid season trade last year bc he failed to address the depth properly in the offseason at a key position and then couldn’t live without getting his pick back, which he promptly wasted on a rotational DT who plays the same position as a guy he just handed a 70M contract to.   Beane does a lot of things well, drafting is absolutely not one of them.  Had he not hit the jackpot on Allen, he’s working under Whaley in the XFL or whatever Sir Doug is up to these days.

What does he do well if its not drafting, cap management or free agent talent acquisition?

[MikePJ76]

40 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

What does he do well if its not drafting, cap management or free agent talent acquisition?

Are you saying the Bills are not a talented good team?  

 

I simply do not understand the mindset of most fans.

1 hour ago, wppete said:

Yea completely agree… in the playoffs he just seemed frustrated he couldn’t get separation and was sulking. Really bad look. It seemed like he wasn’t going full speed on many plays. He needs to grow up and mature or he wont last long. 

Which moments was he sulking?  Josh just missed him on what would have been a big play td vs denver, he ran a great route and was wide open.  Then he drew a huge PI flag.

 

When was he sulking and not playing hard?

 

If he gets hit in stride here and fights off the corner and scores its a great play.  kind of similar to plays he had started to make earlier in the season before the injury.

 

https://www.veed.io/view/5cba3bf0-d127-46d8-b14c-4d56d2346ea6?panel=share

Edited Wednesday at 04:21 PM by MikePJ76

[GunnerBill]

36 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Robert Woods & Ronald Darby are better than anyone we drafted the last 3 years

 

The last two years I would give you. I don't think they are better than Benford or Cook. 

[uticaclub]

27 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

Are you saying the Bills are not a talented good team?  

 

I simply do not understand the mindset of most fans.

 

No, I don’t think we are a talented team, I think this team is picking in the Top 5 without Josh Allen. Who on the Bills would start for another playoff team?

[MikePJ76]

5 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

No, I don’t think we are a talented team, I think this team is picking in the Top 5 without Josh Allen. Who on the Bills would start for another playoff team?

Ok.

 

Have a nice day.

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That should have have been a surprise though. That is who he was in college.

and he was a pretty good WR in college. I've said it before and will say it again Keon reminds me of Muhsin Mohammed in that he's lengthy and does have some RAC abilities, will he ever be a great top 5 #1 WR? No but he can still be an above average WR in this league. 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

No, I don’t think we are a talented team, I think this team is picking in the Top 5 without Josh Allen. Who on the Bills would start for another playoff team?

 

Off the top of my head:

 

Dion Dawkins (would start for every other playoff team except Detroit, Philly, Minnesota and Tampa)

Spencer Brown (would start on every playoff team except Detroit, Philly and the Chargers)

James Cook (I reckon he'd start on 7/13 other playoff teams)

Ed Oliver (I reckon he'd start on 6/13 other playoff teams)

Christian Benford (I reckon he'd start on all but the Eagles and possibly the Texans)

 

 

[The Jokeman]

11 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

No, I don’t think we are a talented team, I think this team is picking in the Top 5 without Josh Allen. Who on the Bills would start for another playoff team?

Most of the offensive line could start on playoff teams, James Cook could. Shakir likely start in the slot for some not all playoff teams. Gregg Rousseau likely start with most playoff caliber teams, Ed Oliver and Matt Milano. Terrell Bernard might be 50/50 guy. Now are all of them best of the best talent? No, but you can't have all pros at every position in today's NFL. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

and he was a pretty good WR in college. I've said it before and will say it again Keon reminds me of Muhsin Mohammed in that he's lengthy and does have some RAC abilities, will he ever be a great top 5 #1 WR? No but he can still be an above average WR in this league. 

 

But that isn't going to be as a downfield outside receiver. It will be as a big slot or a flanker who runs lots of short catch and run stuff. He will never be a good separator. So you gotta use him close to the line and manufacture touches for him.

[The Jokeman]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

But that isn't going to be as a downfield outside receiver. It will be as a big slot or a flanker who runs lots of short catch and run stuff. He will never be a good separator. So you gotta use him close to the line and manufacture touches for him.

and guess what, that's how Worthy and McConkey were used by LAC and KC yet because the rest of their receiving corps funneled passes to one guy where we didn't with Coleman. Why? because we scheme guys open to allow Josh to almost always have a guy to throw too. Again to me the difference between Keon and guys like Worthy and McConkey is volume of targets. You give Keon the same amount of targets am sure Keon right with them in regards to receptions and yards and TDS maybe even better since Keon was almost twice YPC than either one of them or maybe just about the same because of a lesser catch percentage. 

[uticaclub]

12 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Most of the offensive line could start on playoff teams, James Cook could. Shakir likely start in the slot for some not all playoff teams. Gregg Rousseau likely start with most playoff caliber teams, Ed Oliver and Matt Milano. Terrell Bernard might be 50/50 guy. Now are all of them best of the best talent? No, but you can't have all pros at every position in today's NFL. 

Oliver & Groot would be rotational guys not starters. Cook doesn't even get 50% of the snaps here. Milano is great when healthy, he's over 30 and his body is starting to break down.

Edited Wednesday at 04:50 PM by uticaclub

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

and guess what, that's how Worthy and McConkey were used by LAC and KC yet because the rest of their receiving corps funneled passes to one guy where we didn't with Coleman. Why? because we scheme guys open to allow Josh to almost always have a guy to throw too. Again to me the difference between Keon and guys like Worthy and McConkey is volume of targets. You give Keon the same amount of targets am sure Keon right with them in regards to receptions and yards and TDS maybe even better since Keon was almost twice YPC than either one of them or maybe just about the same because of a lesser catch percentage. 

 

Not exactly. I don't think Keon is gonna become Worthy or McConkey just through more targets. Worthy and McConkey were used quite differently to each other. McConkey was used largely from the slot as a matchup piece vs linebackers and was used in the intermediate game. Worthy was mainly outside and generally caught either gimmicky bubble screens at the line or deeper balls with not much in between.