Revisiting 2024 draft

[Alphadawg7]

I think Keon, Bishop, SVPG, and Davis obviously have the best chance to be good players for us.  I still like Solomon's potential too. But as many have pointed out, its way too early to tell anything about any of these guys.  Obviously, Keon and Davis showed the most as rookies, but Keon wasn't the same after he got back from injury and Davis chances were limited with Cook here and Ty emerging as well.  So still a lot to prove, but with Keon specficially, I think adding a downfield threat to the WR room is going to really help him as well.

[Rigotz]

What draft grade did you have on Terrel Bernard after his rookie year?

[BuffaloBillyG]

Way way way too soon to think about how this class ends up.

 

But I will say I absolutely hate Beane's philosophy of drafting guys at the top of the draft that "may" be elite players in 2-3 years with the high RAS scores as opposed to guys that ARE impactful right off the bus. By the time a guy starts working out as a plus pick, it's time to re-sign him and then they "have earned the right to test free agency"

[GASabresIUFan]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

Rather than re-litigate the "Coleman over Worthy" thing, which has been discussed to death...

I will instead point out that for all of Beane's talk about drafting BPA and not being a prisoner to need, his track record shows that he ABSOLUTELY drafts for need in the first and second round most years, and 2024 was no exception. I think every draftnik and their brother had Cooper DeJean rated ahead of Keon Coleman, but WR was the bigger need, so Coleman was the pick. 

In retrospect, Cooper DeJean and Xavier Worthy likely would both have been superior picks. Each of them scored a touchdown in the Super Bowl for their team as rookies, while Keon Coleman (who, yes, may still wind up being a productive role player or even a WR2/3) was near the bottom of the league in separation created.

The book on this draft won't be written for a couple more years, but early returns are not promising.

Brandon Beane needs to put his money where his mouth is and stop drafting for need, because he has left some great talent on the table by not truly drafting BPA.

 

While I agree that it's too soon to tell, it's tough to hear and agree with "it's harder to make an instant impact on a good team" when Cooper DeJean and Xavier Worthy scored three touchdowns between them in the Super Bowl a couple Sundays ago.

Lol.  Cooper Dejean.  Holy hindsight Batman.  If Cooper was such as sure fire pick, why did he drop to 40?  That means every team passed on him at least once.  The Bills, with Benford and Douglas locked in as starters and 1st rd pick Elam as depth, were never ever going to use their top pick on a CB.  DeJean was never going to be an option. 
 

The 2024 draft was also heavy on good WRs and Safeties the two areas on biggest need.  Given the Bills retooling last season and limited cap space, need was always going to play apart in the draft.  We can argue about which safety or which WR, but Beane didn’t “reach” for either player as both were where they were drafted. Personally I would have taken McConkey and tried to move up to get Bullard, but was fine with Bishop after I read what Kincaid and other said about.  This year will be a biggest test for both players assuming they stay healthy.  

[EmotionallyUnstable]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

The Bills, with Benford and Douglas locked in as starters and 1st rd pick Elam as depth, were never ever going to use their top pick on a CB.  DeJean was never going to be an option. 

Respectfully disagree. Revisionist history indeed, yet this is the problem:

You cannot allow your current roster status to steer you into making or not making selections of players who are thought to be elite, especially at premier positions. 
 

Looking at a roster, you might think “what do I need this player for” is keeping you from bringing in high quality talent at cost controlled prices. You think it’s silly to imagine why would they have done this, but why wouldn’t they have done this? 
 

Look how it all shook out: Injury concerns at safety, Benford knocked out of AFCCG, Douglas in a contract year, Elam a known bust, and it would have been an excellent chess piece to harness.

 

We’d be sitting here today with one less question mark at a position. Yes instead we have people thinking we need WR, DB and DL help…which is ironically the exact same top three picks that were made positionally last year. 
 

DeJean in the fold would have at least given us one answer. 
 

My major concession here is as you stated , he went #40!!! Beane is not the only GM victim to error and woulda coulda shouldas 

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Do you think that the Eagles are saying, “don’t judge our 2024 class for 3 years?” What about the Commanders?

 

Certainly not.  That refrain is often a fans' perspective when this subject arises during the off-season.  

[Logic]

19 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Lol.  Cooper Dejean.  Holy hindsight Batman.  If Cooper was such as sure fire pick, why did he drop to 40?  That means every team passed on him at least once.  

 

He was PFF's 8th ranked prospect.
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2024-nfl-draft-board-big-board

He was Scouts Inc's 19th ranked prospect.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/story/_/id/39854410/2024-nfl-draft-rankings-top-prospects-scouts-inc

He was Joel Klatt's (of Fox Sports) 24th ranked prospect.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/story/_/id/39854410/2024-nfl-draft-rankings-top-prospects-scouts-inc

He was Daniel Jeremiah's 25th ranked prospect.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/story/_/id/39854410/2024-nfl-draft-rankings-top-prospects-scouts-inc


It's not a "hindsight 20/20" situation. DeJean was touted by nearly everyone of consequence as solidly a mid to late 1st round pick.

Furthermore, as I pointed out in my thread, the fact that DeJean WASN'T considered a realistic draft candidate for Buffalo because they were "set at cornerback" is EXACTLY the problem. 

Drafting BPA over need would dictate that DeJean WOULD have been a viable candidate there. You draft good players over "need" players, and before long, you look pretty smart. Case in point: Benford got hurt and Kaiir Elam flopped and floundered in the biggest game of the year, repeatedly being picked on by Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs offense. If only the Bills had had a more talented corner waiting in the wings!

And wouldn't you know it? Fast forward to this year, and the Bills are likely going to be in the market for a viable starting corner. But instead of having one waiting in the wings, they'll have corner among their obvious NEED positions, and may end up having to draft one when he isn't the BPA solely because the need is so crying. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Edited 3 hours ago by Logic

[GASabresIUFan]

1 minute ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

My major concession here is as you stated , he went #40!!! Beane is not the only GM victim to error and woulda coulda shouldas 

This fact kills all other arguments.  Dejean was never going to be our top pick (or apparently anyone else’s) and he was gone by the time our next pick came around.  

[EmotionallyUnstable]

12 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

This fact kills all other arguments.  Dejean was never going to be our top pick (or apparently anyone else’s) and he was gone by the time our next pick came around.  

If you want to dismiss DeJean as an example that’s your own business but the larger point is that need is driving those choices. 
 

Again look at 2023 when the Bills took Kincaid as it clear we needed WR help. Immediately before our pick a WR run of JSN, Q Johnston, Flowers, Addison led Beane to picking the next best thing which was Kincaid as a pass catcher who as you’ve heard Beane try to do, pass him off as a semi-WR with his 11.5 personnel suggestion. 
 

I won’t even sit and say “he should have instead taken…” as that’s an unfair revisionist perspective. What you can state however is that he forced the issue likely overdrafting a player who he tried to peg into a need that didn’t fit. We see this again with Coleman in 2024 IMO as well. 

Edited 3 hours ago by EmotionallyUnstable

[GASabresIUFan]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

He was PFF's 8th ranked prospect.
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2024-nfl-draft-board-big-board

He was Scouts Inc's 19th ranked prospect.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/story/_/id/39854410/2024-nfl-draft-rankings-top-prospects-scouts-inc

He was Joel Klatt's (of Fox Sports) 24th ranked prospect.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/story/_/id/39854410/2024-nfl-draft-rankings-top-prospects-scouts-inc

He was Daniel Jeremiah's 25th ranked prospect.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/story/_/id/39854410/2024-nfl-draft-rankings-top-prospects-scouts-inc


It's not a "hindsight 20/20" situation. DeJean was touted by nearly everyone of consequence as solidly a mid to late 1st round pick.

Furthermore, as I pointed out in my thread, the fact that DeJean WASN'T considered a realistic draft candidate for Buffalo because they were "set at cornerback" is EXACTLY the problem. 

Drafting BPA over need would dictate that DeJean WOULD have been a viable candidate there. You draft good players over "need" players, and before long, you look pretty smart. Case in point: Benford got hurt and Kaiir Elam flopped and floundered in the biggest game of the year, repeatedly being picked on by Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs offense. If only the Bills had had a more talented corner waiting in the wings!

And wouldn't you know it? Fast forward to this year, and the Bills are likely going to be in the need for a viable starting corner. But instead of having one waiting in the wings, they'll have corner among their obvious NEED positions, and may end up having to draft one when he isn't the BPA solely because the need is so crying. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Ok you take DeJean, who plays boundary WR, who is your depth at S?  Remember you had no cap space to go buy big $ FAs.  
 

BPA is a fantasy early in the NFL draft.  Also Philly took 2 CBs in the 1st 2 rounds of the draft because they lacked depth at CB last season which was a primary reason the Eagles 2024 stank.  

4 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

If you want to dismiss DeJean as an example that’s your own business but the larger point is that need is driving those choices. 
 

Again look at 2023 when the Bills took Kincaid as it clear we needed WR help. Immediately before our pick a WR run of JSN, Q Johnston, Flowers, Addison led Beane to picking the next best thing which was Kincaid as a pass catcher who as you’ve heard Beane try to do, pass him off as a semi-WR with his 11.5 personnel suggestion. 
 

I won’t even sit and say “he should have instead taken…” as that’s an unfair revisionist perspective. What you can state however is that he forced the issue likely overdrafting a player who he tried to peg into a need that didn’t fit. We see this again with Coleman in 2024 IMO as well. 

So in your world if Beane drafts for need like last season at WR and S he’s wrong, but if he goes BPA in 2023 and grabs Kincaid in 2023 he’s also wrong? 
 

To me these last 2 drafts prove that Beane is flexible in his approach.  2024 was a need draft because of the re-tooling and 2023 was more BPA because he didn’t have obvious needs.  WR wasn’t a need as Diggs and Davis were under contract and Shakir was developing nicely.  

[EmotionallyUnstable]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

but if he goes BPA in 2023 and grabs Kincaid

No I didn’t say that. I said I think he took who he perceived to be the best remaining pass catcher, because the whole world knew we needed help at WR. Now you’re stuck with a TE who despite being praised as being a great pass catcher, isn’t a boundary WR player. He tried to fit a square peg into a round hole. 
 

What he should have done, is not allow the need for pass catcher to overshadow the fact that there could have been better talent available at other positions, instead of feeling pressured to address it. 

[Logic]

14 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Ok you take DeJean, who plays boundary WR, who is your depth at S?  Remember you had no cap space to go buy big $ FAs.  
 

BPA is a fantasy early in the NFL draft.  Also Philly took 2 CBs in the 1st 2 rounds of the draft because they lacked depth at CB last season which was a primary reason the Eagles 2024 stank.  

 

To answer your question directly, lets look at the last game of our season against the Chiefs for the right to go to the Super Bowl:

Keon Coleman had 1 catch for 12 yards.
Cole Bishop did nothing of consequence.

You're telling me their respective production couldn't have been achieved by others?

As to the wide receiver question: in his second through sixth games after being cut by Buffalo, Marquez Valdes-Scantling posted the following stat lines:

3 catches for 109 yards and 2 TDs

2 catches for 87 yards and 1 TD

2 catches for 36 yards and 1 TD

4 catches for 51 yards 

2 catches for 64 yards

As to the safety question, the Bills had veterans Kareem Jackson and Micah Hyde on the practice squad for the KC game. They also had recent 1st rounder Lewis Cine. 

 

There's more than one way to skin a cat. 

I maintain that drafting BPA instead of leaving yourself with crying needs at certain positions and being forced to draft those positions is the better draft strategy.

 

[GASabresIUFan]

2 minutes ago, Logic said:

To answer your question directly, lets look at the last game of our season against the Chiefs for the right to go to the Super Bowl:

Keon Coleman had 1 catch for 12 yards.
Cole Bishop did nothing of consequence.

You're telling me their respective production couldn't have been achieved by others?

As to the wide receiver question: in his second through sixth games after being cut by Buffalo, Marquez Valdes-Scantling posted the following stat lines:

3 catches for 109 yards and 2 TDs

2 catches for 87 yards and 1 TD

2 catches for 36 yards and 1 TD

4 catches for 51 yards 

2 catches for 64 yards

As to the safety question, the Bills had veterans Kareem Jackson and Micah Hyde on the practice squad for the KC game. They also had recent 1st rounder Lewis Cine. 

 

There's more than one way to skin a cat. 

I maintain that drafting BPA instead of leaving yourself with crying needs at certain positions and being forced to draft those positions is the better draft strategy.

 

lol.  They lost Cine to Philly.  
 

Had Jackson or Hyde been good enough they would have played. 
 

 

[Logic]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

lol.  They lost Cine to Philly.  
 

Had Jackson or Hyde been good enough they would have played. 
 

 

I would argue that the Bills played Bishop because he was a high draft pick so they felt compelled to do so. And that it's genuinely hard for me to believe that they would've gotten worse production from Kareem Jackson.

Meanwhile, we KNOW the kind of production they got from Kaiir Elam at CB2 in the biggest game of the season.

 

It comes down to this: You're advocating for and defending strictly drafting for need rather than entertaining the idea of drafting the best player available. That's fine. I disagree. I think it's a bad strategy and one that has cost the Bills dearly in recent drafts.

Good day.

[HOUSE]

I don't review a teams draft for at least 3 years.

Some of these players are still finding the fastest way to the stadium 

If you can't find the stadium quickly after 3 years than waive 

 

.

Edited 2 hours ago by HOUSE

[corta765]

4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

1 year in, it looks like a bad draft class. Rookies are contributing all over the league these days. The Super Bowl Champs are a great example. 

 

Probably the saving grace for the Bills is the emergence of young guys like Bernard Benford Cook & Shakir because if that didn't happen this drafts class lack of impact would be even more pronounced.

 

Like you said its year 1 and you cannot panic, but given the amount of picks and potential FA space to reshape the roster for the next few years Beane better hit a lot better than he did this past year.

[KOKBILLS]

41 minutes ago, Logic said:

To answer your question directly, lets look at the last game of our season against the Chiefs for the right to go to the Super Bowl:

Keon Coleman had 1 catch for 12 yards.
Cole Bishop did nothing of consequence.

You're telling me their respective production couldn't have been achieved by others?

As to the wide receiver question: in his second through sixth games after being cut by Buffalo, Marquez Valdes-Scantling posted the following stat lines:

3 catches for 109 yards and 2 TDs

2 catches for 87 yards and 1 TD

2 catches for 36 yards and 1 TD

4 catches for 51 yards 

2 catches for 64 yards

As to the safety question, the Bills had veterans Kareem Jackson and Micah Hyde on the practice squad for the KC game. They also had recent 1st rounder Lewis Cine. 

 

There's more than one way to skin a cat. 

I maintain that drafting BPA instead of leaving yourself with crying needs at certain positions and being forced to draft those positions is the better draft strategy.

 

100%

[GASabresIUFan]

2 hours ago, Rigotz said:

What draft grade did you have on Terrel Bernard after his rookie year?

or Cook or Shakir or Brown or ..........

[KOKBILLS]

42 minutes ago, Logic said:

I would argue that the Bills played Bishop because he was a high draft pick so they felt compelled to do so. And that it's genuinely hard for me to believe that they would've gotten worse production from Kareem Jackson.

Meanwhile, we KNOW the kind of production they got from Kaiir Elam at CB2 in the biggest game of the season.

 

It comes down to this: You're advocating for and defending strictly drafting for need rather than entertaining the idea of drafting the best player available. That's fine. I disagree. I think it's a bad strategy and one that has cost the Bills dearly in recent drafts.

Good day.

 

The crazy thing for me is the way they handled Bishop based on what at least I saw of him as an actual on-the-field prospect. It seemed like the square peg in the round hole kind of thing. While Bishop has the physical traits of a centerfield-type of FS that can move all over, he just does not shine in that role, and his College analytics really backed that up. If you're looking for more of a traditional SS-type...in the box... that's where Bishop really played well in College. So every time I saw him dropping deep and someone running by him I felt like...well...could have seen that coming. Like I remember distinctly hearing Draft guys saying... if you Draft Cole Bishop to be a FS, or to play mostly in a 2-deep zone you are going to be disappointed. 

 

That's not to say he won't improve and grow into the role. He was just a rookie. He seems smart and he does have a lot of God-given ability. But I feel like based on what they asked him to do in 2024... He was set up for failure from the get-go... 

Edited 2 hours ago by KOKBILLS

[Mat68]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

He was PFF's 8th ranked prospect.
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2024-nfl-draft-board-big-board

He was Scouts Inc's 19th ranked prospect.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/story/_/id/39854410/2024-nfl-draft-rankings-top-prospects-scouts-inc

He was Joel Klatt's (of Fox Sports) 24th ranked prospect.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/story/_/id/39854410/2024-nfl-draft-rankings-top-prospects-scouts-inc

He was Daniel Jeremiah's 25th ranked prospect.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/story/_/id/39854410/2024-nfl-draft-rankings-top-prospects-scouts-inc


It's not a "hindsight 20/20" situation. DeJean was touted by nearly everyone of consequence as solidly a mid to late 1st round pick.

Furthermore, as I pointed out in my thread, the fact that DeJean WASN'T considered a realistic draft candidate for Buffalo because they were "set at cornerback" is EXACTLY the problem. 

Drafting BPA over need would dictate that DeJean WOULD have been a viable candidate there. You draft good players over "need" players, and before long, you look pretty smart. Case in point: Benford got hurt and Kaiir Elam flopped and floundered in the biggest game of the year, repeatedly being picked on by Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs offense. If only the Bills had had a more talented corner waiting in the wings!

And wouldn't you know it? Fast forward to this year, and the Bills are likely going to be in the market for a viable starting corner. But instead of having one waiting in the wings, they'll have corner among their obvious NEED positions, and may end up having to draft one when he isn't the BPA solely because the need is so crying. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Where is Cooper playing in Buffalo? Safety?