Plane crash Toronto Airport

[dpberr]

I fly these CRJs with Delta's Endeavor Air often - I consider them well built, solid aircraft with good parts. They are the Subaru of airplanes to me as a customer.  

 

[RkFast]

59 minutes ago, dpberr said:

I fly these CRJs with Delta's Endeavor Air often - I consider them well built, solid aircraft with good parts. They are the Subaru of airplanes to me as a customer.  

 

 

I hate how cramped the CRJs are and the fact that the carriers are pushing them on longer flights, but they are defintely fleet workhorses. 

[Just Jack]

Another interior video

 

 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 03:17 AM by Just Jack

[dpberr]

5 hours ago, RkFast said:

 

I hate how cramped the CRJs are and the fact that the carriers are pushing them on longer flights, but they are defintely fleet workhorses. 

 

The pro is that we no longer have to fly slow, noisy props like the Beechcraft 1900s.  Hated the prop planes.

[boyst]

12 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

Capitalism is finally catching up to the aviation industry.  All these companies associated with aviation have been printing cash for years now.  There are way too many flights now days all to maximize the bottom line.  There is too much pressure to fly in inclement weather, too many pilots that are being rushed through trainings in order to not have a severe pilot shortage based on how many flights are being flown now, inspections are being overlooked, and overall, this has been years in the making.  It's really not a surprise.  The industry needs an entire overhaul.  They may sound rude or cruel but flying needs to go back to being a privilege.  The number of flights in a day need to be cut in half.  Train inspectors on new standards, inspect every plane, pull out the old planes, increase the pilot standards/flight hours, need to revisit when planes should be grounded, etc.  The speed at which aviation has grown has been a cause for concern for old time aviation experts for over a decade now, and it has all been tied to a bottom like.  The industry went from a luxury industry to a low-cost leader.  Push as many flights as possible out, at the cheapest cost.  Scary when you're dealing with life and death.

There are a ton, absolute ton, of checks these planes go through. NDT is quite common, as is using ultrasound and other things. They go to independent company's for this and has to be so often or after criteria are met (hard landings, etc).

 

Greensboro is the home of Honda jet and soon Boom Supersonic. The service industry is huge here with Haeco, etc. taking care of these planes. Many friends work for these groups and the tests, etc are no joke 

 

If you're going to put blame on someone or somewhere it is not there, it could be the facilities of the airports and support staff. Most pilots are great, few are unqualified and didn't actually earn it.

[Wacka]

First I said it was at the ravine at the end of the runway. Seeing more video today, it was the tarmac with no snow on it and it was sitting near the terminal. I watched a video by "Captain Steevee". today He made a video analyzing  the crash right after he had come back from London (filmed it in the airport). He said that the rightwing touched the ground and the torque on it tore it off the aircraft and then the left wing was still "flying" and caused the plane to flip.

[Just Jack]

I'm going with three scenarios...

 

1) mechanical issue with the right wing landing gear

2) Sudden burst of wind that forced the plane down/over

3) Pilot error

 

 

[RiotAct]

“Mentour Pilot” on Youtube is going to be REALLY busy the rest of this year…

[Back2Buff]

13 hours ago, boyst said:

There are a ton, absolute ton, of checks these planes go through. NDT is quite common, as is using ultrasound and other things. They go to independent company's for this and has to be so often or after criteria are met (hard landings, etc).

 

Greensboro is the home of Honda jet and soon Boom Supersonic. The service industry is huge here with Haeco, etc. taking care of these planes. Many friends work for these groups and the tests, etc are no joke 

 

If you're going to put blame on someone or somewhere it is not there, it could be the facilities of the airports and support staff. Most pilots are great, few are unqualified and didn't actually earn it.

 

I'm going off what happened in the Buffalo crash where it was exposed how little experience these regional airline pilots have.

 

Also going off all the issues with Boeing.

 

There are major problems in the aviation industry that are not widely reported. 

 

Just going on what you personally know doesn't take into account the entry industry.

Edited Wednesday at 02:40 PM by Back2Buff

[RkFast]

1 hour ago, RiotAct said:

“Mentour Pilot” on Youtube is going to be REALLY busy the rest of this year…

 

I like Mentour but when it comes to incidents/accidents, Juan Brown is tops. 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

 

 

Also going off all the issues with Boeing.

 

 

 

But this plane wasnt manufactured by Boeing.

Edited Wednesday at 02:48 PM by RkFast

[Back2Buff]

2 minutes ago, RkFast said:

 

Juan Brown makes Mentour look like an amateur (and I like Mentour). 

 

 

 

But this plane wasnt manufactured by Boeing.

 

I understand that.  My post was about the aviation industry.  Its in a really bad spot.  I'm not going to rehash what I wrote in the original post, but things are not being held up to standards they should be.

Edited Wednesday at 02:49 PM by Back2Buff

[Mr. WEO]

On 2/18/2025 at 7:34 AM, Back2Buff said:

Capitalism is finally catching up to the aviation industry.  All these companies associated with aviation have been printing cash for years now.  There are way too many flights now days all to maximize the bottom line.  There is too much pressure to fly in inclement weather, too many pilots that are being rushed through trainings in order to not have a severe pilot shortage based on how many flights are being flown now, inspections are being overlooked, and overall, this has been years in the making.  It's really not a surprise.  The industry needs an entire overhaul.  They may sound rude or cruel but flying needs to go back to being a privilege.  The number of flights in a day need to be cut in half.  Train inspectors on new standards, inspect every plane, pull out the old planes, increase the pilot standards/flight hours, need to revisit when planes should be grounded, etc.  The speed at which aviation has grown has been a cause for concern for old time aviation experts for over a decade now, and it has all been tied to a bottom like.  The industry went from a luxury industry to a low-cost leader.  Push as many flights as possible out, at the cheapest cost.  Scary when you're dealing with life and death.

 

 

All incorrect.

 

When commercial aviation was "a luxury", total fatalities began a steep climb.  1200 in 1961, 1800 in '72, 1700 in '96.  After Congress INCREASED the minimum required flight hours for commercial pilots to be licensed as such to 1500.  Since this law in 2012, fatalities have plummeted.  With the huge shortage of pilots looming, the airline industry recently tried to cut the requirement in half.  The FAA refused.  There is no "rushing through training--it is longer now than it had been for decades (when flying was "a luxury").

 

From 11/03 to 11/04, less than 1% of flights listed as weather delays and 1.71% cancelled.  From 11/23 to 11/24, 1% weather delays, 1.26% cancelled.  Nothing has changed. 

 

Boeing certainly has it's quality issues.  But planes in service have incredibly complex and rigorous certifications and scheduled maintenance  that are ongoing.  Also, the air traffic control system needs more staff and major equipment upgrades to handle this volume.

 

"Cutting flights in half" would not have allowed this plane to land safely. 

 

 

On 2/19/2025 at 7:21 AM, Just Jack said:

I'm going with three scenarios...

 

1) mechanical issue with the right wing landing gear

2) Sudden burst of wind that forced the plane down/over

3) Pilot error

 

 

 

Hard landing with crosswind correction.

[sherpa]

Side loaded right main landing gear coincident with unacceptable sink rate.

It looked like a carrier landing.

There was no flare to diminish the sink rate just prior to touchdown, which is always part of the landing.

Stiff right crosswind leading to the mains not aligned with the runway at touchdown caused a side load which overstressed the gear and caused separation.

These are basic techniques.

[ExiledInIllinois]

On 2/18/2025 at 11:35 AM, dpberr said:

I fly these CRJs with Delta's Endeavor Air often - I consider them well built, solid aircraft with good parts. They are the Subaru of airplanes to me as a customer.  

 

Subarus have been known to leak oil, especially the boxter motors... Nasty little problem that nobody likes to talk about.

 

Just saying... Like a Bombardier flipping on landing? 😉😜 

 

The wings busted off, how else could it turtle?

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

Side loaded right main landing gear coincident with unacceptable sink rate.

It looked like a carrier landing.

There was no flare to diminish the sink rate just prior to touchdown, which is always part of the landing.

Stiff right crosswind leading to the mains not aligned with the runway at touchdown caused a side load which overstressed the gear and caused separation.

These are basic techniques.

 

just missing the cable arrest

[sherpa]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

just missing the cable arrest

 

Ya.

The thing that will tell is the FDR record of sink rate and G at touchdown.

 

I got a feeling it was "firm."

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

 

Ya.

The thing that will tell is the FDR record of sink rate and G at touchdown.

 

I got a feeling it was "firm."

 

It looked pretty hard---like he was doing a slight crosswind correction--then all 3 gear hitting the runway nearly simultaneously without flare.   was wondering if there was a microburst a few feet above the ground. 

[sherpa]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

It looked pretty hard---like he was doing a slight crosswind correction--then all 3 gear hitting the runway nearly simultaneously without flare.   was wondering if there was a microburst a few feet above the ground. 

 

It's a god observation, but microbursts are convection related, ie., up and down air, which you don't get in the winter.

She didn't flare and didn't align the longitudinal axis or the airplane with the runway.

The main landing gear couldn't handle the side load.

[Mr. WEO]

23 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

It's a god observation, but microbursts are convection related, ie., up and down air, which you don't get in the winter.

She didn't flare and didn't align the longitudinal axis or the airplane with the runway.

The main landing gear couldn't handle the side load.

 

true, good point.

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]