Jonathan Martin and Incognito Bullygate back in the news

[Chas56]

5 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

That voicemail is real.  And at the same time, Cog was Martin's best friend on the team.  

Have you ever seen Bill Burr do his bit about "No doesn't mean no." Seeing the words typed out doesn't equate to understanding the situation, the relationship that lead to those words. All the nuance is lost, and we just have the words. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

1 hour ago, DapperCam said:

Wait, what was the lie? There was hard evidence that was shared with the Dolphins. Martin is just trying to reframe things all these years later because it made him look like a wuss.

 

1 hour ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Did you even read the story?  What was the lie?

 

52 minutes ago, appoo said:

He didn’t lie 

In the same article Martin said what incognito did was wrong.

 

 

Incognito was suspended for Bullying Martin. I am truly not understanding what technicality you guys are trying to run on, if Martin wasn't "bullied" there would have been no investigation, with no investigation then Incognito does not get suspended. I mean this sincerely, am I missing how this investigation started, was there an event that actually started that I have forgotten about? Martin being mentally ill does make him a better person in my eyes just as Incognito mental illness does make him more redeeming. 

[appoo]

36 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

 

 

Incognito was suspended for Bullying Martin. I am truly not understanding what technicality you guys are trying to run on, if Martin wasn't "bullied" there would have been no investigation, with no investigation then Incognito does not get suspended. I mean this sincerely, am I missing how this investigation started, was there an event that actually started that I have forgotten about? Martin being mentally ill does make him a better person in my eyes just as Incognito mental illness does make him more redeeming. 

Incognito was suspended for doing the actions unveiled in the internal report which were the exact actions he was accused of doing by Martin. Whether you want to call it bullying or not is up to you - it’s a judgmental phrase. 
 

His factual actions are not up for debate 

 

EDIT

 

This started with Martin checking himself into a hospital for mental health reasons, and then turning over material to dolphins which included voice mails and text messages of things that included racist (Martin is half black and Incognito routinely called him the N-Word) and misogynistic stuff that included his mother.  That is what got Incognito suspended, not the word bullying.

 

We need to stop sane washing Incognitos actions here because in Martins personal opinion it wasn’t bullying 

Edited Monday at 09:17 PM by appoo

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

Do you not remember the whole situation? Martin lied about Incognito in order to set up a lawsuit. He literally just admitted he lied to set up the lawsuit.

 

What did he lie about.  Did you read that article?

3 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

The report’s conclusion was that it was bullying. Martin said it was normal locker room stuff 

 

no he didn't

[Orlando Buffalo]

6 minutes ago, appoo said:

Incognito was suspended for doing the actions unveiled in the internal report which were the exact actions he was accused of doing by Martin. Whether you want to call it bullying or not is up to you - it’s a judgmental phrase. 
 

His factual actions are not up for debate 

 

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

What did he lie about.  Did you read that article?

I am going off my memory and a quick search of articles from them. Both articles I read then stated Martin got the investigation started by claiming he was being bullied. If there was another reason the investigation started I will accept it but everything stems from the initial complaint of bullying according to the articles from 2013. 

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

 

I am going off my memory and a quick search of articles from them. Both articles I read then stated Martin got the investigation started by claiming he was being bullied. If there was another reason the investigation started I will accept it but everything stems from the initial complaint of bullying according to the articles from 2013. 

 

 

show us were "he literally just lied to set up a lawsuit".  you can use the article the OP posted.

Edited Monday at 09:24 PM by Mr. WEO

[appoo]

6 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

 

I am going off my memory and a quick search of articles from them. Both articles I read then stated Martin got the investigation started by claiming he was being bullied. If there was another reason the investigation started I will accept it but everything stems from the initial complaint of bullying according to the articles from 2013. 

Martin did not use the word bullying. His mother did.

 

The incident started when Martin checked himself into a hospital, the dolphins asked why, and Martin turned over what he considered to be absuive text messages and voice mails, which were damning enough that the dolphins decided to suspect Incognito while the NFL launched an independent investigation through Ted Wells.

 

Martin now says he wishes he didn’t stay silent when his mother used the word bullying and for cooperating with the Wells investigation- likely because he hates that he’s first associated with being a victim rather than someone who fought off his attacker. 

 

This very much runs parallel to the world of sexual assault. Many women regret speaking up against their assaulters because they hate having their identity become that of someone who’s been assaulted - a victim.  
 

It’s why abuse is traumatic. The abuse doesn’t stop with the incident - instead the trauma last a life time and it evolves. 

Edited Monday at 09:26 PM by appoo

[Orlando Buffalo]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

show us were "he literally just lied to set up a lawsuit"

Ok I will bite, why did they start the investigation if he did not claim he was being bullied? 

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

Ok I will bite, why did they start the investigation if he did not claim he was being bullied? 

 

This has already been clearly answered in direct responses to you. Twice.

 

5 minutes ago, appoo said:

The incident started when Martin checked himself into a hospital, the dolphins asked why, and Martin turned over what he considered to be absuive text messages and voice mails, which were damning enough that the dolphins decided to suspect Incognito while the NFL launched an independent investigation through Ted Wells.

 

21 minutes ago, appoo said:

This started with Martin checking himself into a hospital for mental health reasons, and then turning over material to dolphins which included voice mails and text messages of things that included racist (Martin is half black and Incognito routinely called him the N-Word) and misogynistic stuff that included his mother.  That is what got Incognito suspended, not the word bullying.

 

[Orlando Buffalo]

3 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

This has already been clearly answered in direct responses to you. Twice.

 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, appoo said:

Martin did not use the word bullying. His mother did.

 

The incident started when Martin checked himself into a hospital, the dolphins asked why, and Martin turned over what he considered to be absuive text messages and voice mails, which were damning enough that the dolphins decided to suspect Incognito while the NFL launched an independent investigation through Ted Wells.

 

Martin now says he wishes he didn’t stay silent when his mother used the word bullying and for cooperating with the Wells investigation- likely because he hates that he’s first associated with being a victim rather than someone who fought off his attacker. 

 

This very much runs parallel to the world of sexual assault. Many women regret speaking up against their assaulters because they hate having their identity become that of someone who’s been assaulted - a victim.  
 

It’s why abuse is traumatic. The abuse doesn’t stop with the incident - instead the trauma last a life time and it evolves. 

If he checked himself into a facility due to what Incognito did then he was clearly being bullied. I don't have actual sympathy for Incognito, which it might be coming off that way, but as I said in my first comment neither person here is a good guy, but Incognito is worse. 

[Mr. WEO]

21 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

Ok I will bite, why did they start the investigation if he did not claim he was being bullied? 

because he was being bullied 

 

read the article.  It will prevent you from making this mistake a 4th time

[Doc Brown]

Did the NFL try and pin it on Incognito so they didn't have to address a broader problem in the league?  Probably and that's pathetic.  Still not a fan of Incognito the person though.

[HomeskillitMoorman]

I like Eric Wood but what a mountain of a leap here. You're still left with quite a bit of ugly baggage of Incognito even if you took away this whole incident. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

because he was being bullied 

 

read the article.  It will prevent you from making this mistake a 4th time

Which is the opposite of what Martin is currently saying. My first comment is that both dudes look bad and I was told Martin was blameless, either Martin lied them or is not telling the truth now. Either he checked himself in to the hospital because his work situation was so toxic, which is bullying or he is lying now. 

[appoo]

10 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Did the NFL try and pin it on Incognito so they didn't have to address a broader problem in the league?  Probably and that's pathetic.  Still not a fan of Incognito the person though.

I do think it started a larger conversation around hazing in sports, which in turn led to more attention on hazing in general in places such as fraternities.  
 

The rare W for the record everything and post it online world we live in is that it’s really hard to get away with the hazing that kids and organizations used to ritualize just 10-15 years ago

4 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

Which is the opposite of what Martin is currently saying. My first comment is that both dudes look bad and I was told Martin was blameless, either Martin lied them or is not telling the truth now. Either he checked himself in to the hospital because his work situation was so toxic, which is bullying or he is lying now. 

He’s rationalizing being a victim. 
 

Have you ever talked to a sexual assault survivor? They switch among a lot of emotional states - often including self hatred 

Edited Monday at 10:12 PM by appoo

[Orlando Buffalo]

21 minutes ago, appoo said:

I do think it started a larger conversation around hazing in sports, which in turn led to more attention on hazing in general in places such as fraternities.  
 

The rare W for the record everything and post it online world we live in is that it’s really hard to get away with the hazing that kids and organizations used to ritualize just 10-15 years ago

He’s rationalizing being a victim. 
 

Have you ever talked to a sexual assault survivor? They switch among a lot of emotional states - often including self hatred 

I have in the past dealt with suicidal and abused teens, not in their adult state that often, and often they jump around in their beliefs but usually over a couple years in my experience the past becomes the truth. I will state that what in all likelihood happened is bullying, and Martin is the victim, but he is not coming out well right now because he is pretending what happened, and he stated happened, is not the truth. 

[Mr. WEO]

43 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

Which is the opposite of what Martin is currently saying. My first comment is that both dudes look bad and I was told Martin was blameless, either Martin lied them or is not telling the truth now. Either he checked himself in to the hospital because his work situation was so toxic, which is bullying or he is lying now. 

I’m out

[julian]

2 hours ago, appoo said:

Martin did not use the word bullying. His mother did.

 

The incident started when Martin checked himself into a hospital, the dolphins asked why, and Martin turned over what he considered to be absuive text messages and voice mails, which were damning enough that the dolphins decided to suspect Incognito while the NFL launched an independent investigation through Ted Wells.

 

Martin now says he wishes he didn’t stay silent when his mother used the word bullying and for cooperating with the Wells investigation- likely because he hates that he’s first associated with being a victim rather than someone who fought off his attacker. 

 

This very much runs parallel to the world of sexual assault. Many women regret speaking up against their assaulters because they hate having their identity become that of someone who’s been assaulted - a victim.  
 

It’s why abuse is traumatic. The abuse doesn’t stop with the incident - instead the trauma last a life time and it evolves. 

“Hates that he’s being first associated with being a victim”… this doesn’t seem the most obvious explanation for his turnabout.

 

 Why not just believe him and take him at his word ? He never felt it was bullying then and certainly not today as he looks to free his conscience.

 

He wasn’t strong enough then to end any unwanted banter/hazing/abuse or whatever you want to call it, he wasn’t even strong even to tell his mother he wasn’t being bullied, it seems he reached a point in his life that he can stand on his own and speak for himself finally and good for him I’m glad he has.

 

Incognito said things in a pro locker room that most people find horrible and that’s certainly true, Martin mishandled the situation in a fashion in which he now regrets and is now wanting to be truthful and honest, not because he doesn’t want to be seen as a victim but because he’s reached a point in his life that he can speak for himself as a full grown functioning man.

[Simon]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

I’m out

 

Who are you and what have you done with our friend?

[GaryPinC]

2 hours ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

I have in the past dealt with suicidal and abused teens, not in their adult state that often, and often they jump around in their beliefs but usually over a couple years in my experience the past becomes the truth. I will state that what in all likelihood happened is bullying, and Martin is the victim, but he is not coming out well right now because he is pretending what happened, and he stated happened, is not the truth. 

After reading the article, this is essentially how I feel about Martin.  I think he's trying to whitewash this past a bit to try and propel himself into the future with the self perception of being a stronger man and having grown.

I hope it works for him.

 

I have trouble buying it.  The entire article is an overwritten fluff piece on all these bold things he's attempted (and failed) and how Richie and Pouncey have already peaked while Martin's just getting started.  A "look at me" article.

 

On one hand he blames his own mother,  Wells, and finally himself for not handling the situation differently.   On the other hand in present day, he refuses to reach out to Richie to discuss this situation he feels he allowed to get out of hand.  I know if I felt guilty like that the honorable thing to do would be reach out and at least try to be accountable. 

 

Martin's an emotionally fragile personality.   He showed it back then and I see it in this article.  I hope this article works therapeutically, he finds some peace and confidence from it, and can finally move on.