Jim Monos w/ critical comments on Bills front office, coaching, roster moves

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Your point is well taken but how much worse was that OL compared to 2022?

 

Saffold at LG, Bates at RG etc.

 

2014 vs 2015 is a tough debate. I think 2015 offense was significantly better. Richie was a huge addition to an IOL that really sucked. Weapons were better too.

 

Problem is that the 2015 defense fell off a cliff. Mario went from All-Pro to mutineer and washed before our eyes and he was our elite edge.

 

For me, I’d rather have the elite DL and bank on Josh making a little more magic on O, than Josh with a better offensive supporting cast but a defense that didn’t have difference makers. 
 

We’ve seen that already ha

 

Oh the 2014 line was worse. We couldn't run it at all and it couldn't really pass protect.

[hondo in seattle]

I think Beane is a good GM.

 

But I'm afraid that 20 years from now, I'll look back on the 2020s and reminisce that the primary reason we didn't win a Lombardi is because Beane was a good GM, but not quite good enough.    

[FireChans]

10 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

I think Beane is a good GM.

 

But I'm afraid that 20 years from now, I'll look back on the 2020s and reminisce that the primary reason we didn't win a Lombardi is because Beane was a good GM, but not quite good enough.    

Yup.

 

i point to Ryan Grigson as a comparison.

 

Landed the generational QB. Wonderful.

 

Didn’t do enough to help that QB. Less than wonderful.

 

Now I don’t think that Beane is as much of a disaster that Grigson was. But eventually that “found the QB” shine wears off. And unless the Bills see some more success, history won’t be as charitable.

[SoTier]

11 minutes ago, T.E. said:

Off the top of my head...2002, 2004, 2014, 2015. The 07 and 08 squads would've both made playoff runs with Allen.

 

I'm probably missing a few.

 

• The 2002 Bills had a QB who had started in the Super Bowl, Drew Bledsoe.  He made the Pro Bowl that season because he threw for more than 4300 yards and 24 TDs despite being sacked 54 times.   Unfortunately, the Bills didn't have a defense.  It ranked 27th despite having Nate Clemens, London Fletcher, Pat Williams, and Antoine Winfield SR on the roster.   Bledsoe threw for nearly 3000 yards and 20 TDs.  With Willis McGahey at RB, the Bills offense ranked #7.
• The 2004 Bills again had no defense --  they ranked 25th-- despite having  Sam Adams, Nate Clemens, London Fletcher, Takeo Spikes, and Pat Williams.   In the final game of the year, the Bills blew their chance at the playoffs by losing to the Steelers' backups, 29-24, and it wasn't really that close.  They allowed UDFA rookie Willie Parker to run for 102 yards on 19 carries.
• Josh Allen would have been a bust if he had been on any of the teams fielded by the Bills during Jauron's stint as HC.  He would have been benched for Captain Check Down, Trent Edwards, because Allen would have tried too hard to win games.  Jauron's aim was always to not lose by too much.

[T.E.]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Oh the 2014 line was worse. We couldn't run it at all and it couldn't really pass protect.

9-7 with EJ Manuel and Kyle Orton at QB.

 

That translates to 43-0 with Allen under center.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, T.E. said:

9-7 with EJ Manuel and Kyle Orton at QB.

 

That translates to 43-0 with Allen under center.

 

Oh the 2014 Bills definitely win more games and make the playoffs with Josh. For sure. I think McDermott makes less impact on 2014 than he does on 2015 too because for all his faults Marrone provided pretty stable coaching in 2014. He coached a pretty good season (aided by Schwartz in particular). 2015 the coaching was a clown show.

[T.E.]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

• Josh Allen would have been a bust if he had been on any of the teams fielded by the Bills during Jauron's stint as HC.  He would have been benched for Captain Check Down, Trent Edwards, because Allen would have tried too hard to win games.  Jauron's aim was always to not lose by too much.

LMAO

 

Josh Allen got drafted by a team where his top two WRs were Zay Jones and Kelvin Benjamin. A team coached by a staff that determined that Nathan Peterman beat him in a preseason QB competition.

 

You don't get a worse situation to start in than that, and he still became the best player in football.

 

To say that he wouldn't have been kicking major ass with players like Eric Moulds, Peerless Price, Terrell Owens, Lee Evans, Marshawn Lynch, Fred Jackson, etc. is absolutely insane.

[Beck Water]

On 2/14/2025 at 12:18 PM, beebe said:

Monos was director of personnel for the Bills 2013-2017. Pretty good listen for those interested (this podcast is non paywall): https://www.golongtd.com/p/pod-state-of-the-buffalo-bills-with

 

-Monos criticizes Beane/McDermott for the 1st and 2nd round selections they've made. Says they've done much better in the mid-rounds but says the 1st and 2nd rounds are the GM and the coach picking, and they simply haven't been good enough there. He thinks Beane needs to defer to someone else if need be to make those picks if he must and says self reflection needed.

 

-Monos: "Brandon Beane was never a scout, he was a salary cap operations type. He knows how to organize. I'm not saying they shouldn't have their jobs...the goal is for sustained success...and that's what the Bills have...I think the Bills need to understand, who is the trusted talent evaluator in that building? Who is making these calls in the first and second round? Where are the big physical freaks?"

 

-Monos on Buffalo's potential interest in a Myles Garrett trade: "You should want Myles Garrett. Go get him. It might help you win the Super Bowl. But that's lazy GM'ing. That's a lazy GM in my opinion. That's an easy one. The hard GM's are finding those first round." There was a discussion about NFL teams likely trying to replicate Philly's defensive approach after the Super Bowl by loading up on DL. But he says it's not like teams don't already try to do that. Buffalo has tried. They've drafted D-Line, and they took a big swing via free agency for Von Miller hoping it'd put them over the top and it backfired. 

 

-Monos criticizes Beane/McDermott for bringing up the refs/officials before the Chiefs game and again afterward. He says it's loser talk. Dunne questions why they would even plant the seed of doubt in players' minds ahead of the game. Why let your players play the victim role? (Monos agreed.) 

 

-Monos criticizes the Bills' poor safeties, calling Bishop "a linebacker."

 

-Monos doesn't seem high on the Coleman pick and returned to his talking point about Buffalo not getting enough true difference makers at the top of the draft. "Guys that run 4.2's, they don't exist later in the draft. Coleman types exist later in the draft. You can get big jumpball wideouts that can't run. That's what the fourth round is for." 

 

-Dunne noted that McDermott is entering his 9th year and only three coaches ever - Tom Landry, Hank Stram, Bill Cowher - have ever won Super Bowls that deep into their tenure with an organization. "Even Andy Reid had to leave Philly and draft Mahomes before he got his first ring." 

 

-Monos wonders if McDermott wrestles control of defensive play calling in playoff games. "I'd like to ask somebody on that staff if Sean does call any defenses in playoff games? I have a feeling there might be some...which is fine, that's your right to do whatever you want." 

 

-Dunne: "I think the GM understands everything should revolve around Josh Allen. I don't know if I can say the same about McDermott....he says complimentary things about him. When it comes to managing the game, what kind of game it's going to be, how the roster should be constructed, I'm not sure he sees it the same way as the GM. Gut feeling."

 

-Monos says he wouldn't pay Cook what he wants. 

 

Monos and Dunne are buddies and Dunne got his "Go Long" start by dredging up Monos and Doug Whaley for "dirt" on the Bills organization and critique about how they would do it differently.  Well buddies, you had your chance and right now Beane and his crew are exceeding anything you ever did, so a lot of what Monos says kind of looks like sour grapes and "armchair QBing".  My opinion.

 

It isn't in question that Beane and the Bills have gotten poor ROI for their 1st and 2nd round picks.  Beane has had 13 1st round picks. Out of that, he's had 1 Superstar (Allen), 2 pro-bowlers (Tremaine Edmunds and Cook), 4 decent to good football players (Oliver, Epenesa, Rousseau, and Torrence), 4 duds (Ford, Basham, Elam), and 3 guys who have shown flashes, but the jury is still out on whether they'll make it (Kincaid, Bishop, Coleman).  

When we throw in that in two of those cases, the Bills traded a 4th round pick to move up a few slots in the 1st, thus giving them fewer shots on goal in the draft, the ROI looks worse.
 

I'll be somewhat contrarian and say, that isn't the real problem with the Bills Rd 1-3 draft picks.  The real problem has been that even with the players who eventually become good players or pro-bowlers, it seems to take them 3 years to really contribute.  It's kind of canonical that teams should expect immediate production from their Day 1 and Day 2 picks, and many teams get this, but this has been relatively rare for the Bills.  AJ Epenesa took 3 years to really start looking like he could play football.  Rousseau and Cook took 2.  Beane does have a pattern of going for high ceiling/low floor guys who are gonna take longer to develop and who have a higher probability of just busting.

That begs the question: what is the hit rate and how quickly do players develop for other GMs around the league?  If you go look at the Eagles over the same time period, what do you see?  They moved on from their 2019 1st round tackle Andre Dillard after 3 years.  Jalen Reagor after 2.   So that's at least 2 duds.  Cam Jurgens is playing now but took 3 years to come on.  Nolan Smith and Jalen Carter are playing now but took 2 years to come on.  It kind of looks like a better hit rate, but there's also the fact that 3 of those years, the Eagles were drafting considerably higher at 10, 13, and 9, so it could just be the price of consistent success for the Bills.  But drafting at pick 22 last season, the Eagles did bring in 2 players who were starters and strong contributors on their defense.

 

So yeah, overall, if the Bills are to take a step, Beane has to do better in the draft.

 

 

[Low Positive]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

Monos and Dunne are buddies and Dunne got his "Go Long" start by dredging up Monos and Doug Whaley for "dirt" on the Bills organization and critique about how they would do it differently.  Well buddies, you had your chance and right now Beane and his crew are exceeding anything you ever did, so a lot of what Monos says kind of looks like sour grapes and "armchair QBing".  My opinion.

 

It isn't in question that Beane and the Bills have gotten poor ROI for their 1st and 2nd round picks.  Beane has had 13 1st round picks. Out of that, he's had 1 Superstar (Allen), 2 pro-bowlers (Tremaine Edmunds and Cook), 4 decent to good football players (Oliver, Epenesa, Rousseau, and Torrence), 4 duds (Ford, Basham, Elam), and 3 guys who have shown flashes, but the jury is still out on whether they'll make it (Kincaid, Bishop, Coleman).  

When we throw in that in two of those cases, the Bills traded a 4th round pick to move up a few slots in the 1st, thus giving them fewer shots on goal in the draft, the ROI looks worse.
 

I'll be somewhat contrarian and say, that isn't the real problem with the Bills Rd 1-3 draft picks.  The real problem has been that even with the players who eventually become good players or pro-bowlers, it seems to take them 3 years to really contribute.  It's kind of canonical that teams should expect immediate production from their Day 1 and Day 2 picks, and many teams get this, but this has been relatively rare for the Bills.  AJ Epenesa took 3 years to really start looking like he could play football.  Rousseau and Cook took 2.  Beane does have a pattern of going for high ceiling/low floor guys who are gonna take longer to develop and who have a higher probability of just busting.

That begs the question: what is the hit rate and how quickly do players develop for other GMs around the league?  If you go look at the Eagles over the same time period, what do you see?  They moved on from their 2019 1st round tackle Andre Dillard after 3 years.  Jalen Reagor after 2.   So that's at least 2 duds.  Cam Jurgens is playing now but took 3 years to come on.  Nolan Smith and Jalen Carter are playing now but took 2 years to come on.  It kind of looks like a better hit rate, but there's also the fact that 3 of those years, the Eagles were drafting considerably higher at 10, 13, and 9, so it could just be the price of consistent success for the Bills.  But drafting at pick 22 last season, the Eagles did bring in 2 players who were starters and strong contributors on their defense.

 

So yeah, overall, if the Bills are to take a step, Beane has to do better in the draft.

 

 

Your point about drafting high-ceiling guys that take time to develop is my biggest criticism of Beane. We waste their rookie contracts just getting them up to speed and then have to decide whether or not to pay them right as they figure it out. To be fair, you could say the same thing about Josh Allen. He didn't become himself until year three, when you have guys like Daniels and Stroud lighting the league on fire as rookies. Joe Burrow and Ja'marr Chase went to the SB right away because Cincinnati drafts finished products from big programs. At this point, I want Beane to draft guys who are ready to start now. We don't have time to wait for them to develop. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Saw this today.

Bills 13th. 

 

[Jrb1979]

58 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Saw this today.

Bills 13th. 

 

As some in the comments said, there isn't much correlation between top picks and wins. 

1 hour ago, Low Positive said:

Your point about drafting high-ceiling guys that take time to develop is my biggest criticism of Beane. We waste their rookie contracts just getting them up to speed and then have to decide whether or not to pay them right as they figure it out. To be fair, you could say the same thing about Josh Allen. He didn't become himself until year three, when you have guys like Daniels and Stroud lighting the league on fire as rookies. Joe Burrow and Ja'marr Chase went to the SB right away because Cincinnati drafts finished products from big programs. At this point, I want Beane to draft guys who are ready to start now. We don't have time to wait for them to develop. 

Not just start right a way but also make an impact.  Less focus on team fit and culture. Take BPA. 

Edited Sunday at 09:15 PM by Jrb1979

[Low Positive]

3 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

As some in the comments said, there isn't much correlation between top picks and wins. 

Not just start right a way but also make an impact.  Less focus on team fit and culture. Take BPA. 

I agree with this up to a point. Jermaine Burton was such a distraction for the Bengals this year all due his immaturity.  He missed team meetings even though his apartment was 20 steps from the stadium. He was seen out on Saturday nights drinking before home games. He got the cops called on him for domestic violence and got evicted for not paying his rent. He was also uncoachable, refusing to listen to anyone. This led him to not playing in the team's most important game of the year. They didn't even fly him to Pittsburgh. So, I agree that the Bills shouldn't put character as high as they do on their lists of necessary traits but there is a line.  

[Coach Tuesday]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Monos and Dunne are buddies and Dunne got his "Go Long" start by dredging up Monos and Doug Whaley for "dirt" on the Bills organization and critique about how they would do it differently.  Well buddies, you had your chance and right now Beane and his crew are exceeding anything you ever did, so a lot of what Monos says kind of looks like sour grapes and "armchair QBing".  My opinion.

 

It isn't in question that Beane and the Bills have gotten poor ROI for their 1st and 2nd round picks.  Beane has had 13 1st round picks. Out of that, he's had 1 Superstar (Allen), 2 pro-bowlers (Tremaine Edmunds and Cook), 4 decent to good football players (Oliver, Epenesa, Rousseau, and Torrence), 4 duds (Ford, Basham, Elam), and 3 guys who have shown flashes, but the jury is still out on whether they'll make it (Kincaid, Bishop, Coleman).  

When we throw in that in two of those cases, the Bills traded a 4th round pick to move up a few slots in the 1st, thus giving them fewer shots on goal in the draft, the ROI looks worse.
 

I'll be somewhat contrarian and say, that isn't the real problem with the Bills Rd 1-3 draft picks.  The real problem has been that even with the players who eventually become good players or pro-bowlers, it seems to take them 3 years to really contribute.  It's kind of canonical that teams should expect immediate production from their Day 1 and Day 2 picks, and many teams get this, but this has been relatively rare for the Bills.  AJ Epenesa took 3 years to really start looking like he could play football.  Rousseau and Cook took 2.  Beane does have a pattern of going for high ceiling/low floor guys who are gonna take longer to develop and who have a higher probability of just busting.

That begs the question: what is the hit rate and how quickly do players develop for other GMs around the league?  If you go look at the Eagles over the same time period, what do you see?  They moved on from their 2019 1st round tackle Andre Dillard after 3 years.  Jalen Reagor after 2.   So that's at least 2 duds.  Cam Jurgens is playing now but took 3 years to come on.  Nolan Smith and Jalen Carter are playing now but took 2 years to come on.  It kind of looks like a better hit rate, but there's also the fact that 3 of those years, the Eagles were drafting considerably higher at 10, 13, and 9, so it could just be the price of consistent success for the Bills.  But drafting at pick 22 last season, the Eagles did bring in 2 players who were starters and strong contributors on their defense.

 

So yeah, overall, if the Bills are to take a step, Beane has to do better in the draft.

 

 

Yes you are perhaps describing a player development issue moreso than a talent acquisition/scouting issue.  And you could say the same thing about Beane’s free agent signings - many of them have been slow to acclimate on the field.  Player development and scouting/pro personnel are related but not the same.  Perhaps they’re doing some self-scouting in that regard by firing Ciano or perhaps that is totally unrelated - but on-field player development has lagged behind much of the rest of the McBeane sectors.

[bobobonators]

It’s too early to criticize Coleman. He was showing some flashes before the injury. 
 

Elam was an abomination of a pick. For McD being a defensive coach and doing such a great job with other players in the secondary, this far of a miss is a head scratcher. 
 

Kincaid has one more year, in my opinion, before we can get really down on him. 
 

The Elam debacle and the inability to hit on an edge rusher after all these years have been the biggest misses that have kept us from winning a Super Bowl in my opinion. 

Edited Sunday at 11:11 PM by bobobonators

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Yes you are perhaps describing a player development issue moreso than a talent acquisition/scouting issue.  And you could say the same thing about Beane’s free agent signings - many of them have been slow to acclimate on the field.  Player development and scouting/pro personnel are related but not the same.  Perhaps they’re doing some self-scouting in that regard by firing Ciano or perhaps that is totally unrelated - but on-field player development has lagged behind much of the rest of the McBeane sectors.

Do we compare this to the league though? I think we’re too critical.

 

 

 

[Jrb1979]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Do we compare this to the league though? I think we’re too critical.

 

 

 

There is two sides to it. The king is great at developing early round picks and is probably better then most teams do. They tend to become good players. Which is great in keeping the team competitive year and year out. 

 

What they haven't been good at is finding that high end talent in the first rounds that other teams do. You need those playmakers to win a Super Bowl. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

23 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

There is two sides to it. The king is great at developing early round picks and is probably better then most teams do. They tend to become good players. Which is great in keeping the team competitive year and year out. 

 

What they haven't been good at is finding that high end talent in the first rounds that other teams do. You need those playmakers to win a Super Bowl. 

I wonder where Kincaid and Elam are today if they started day 1. Elam has regressed sitting on the bench. Kincaid’s best play came when Dawson Knox was injured.

[Bob in STL]

Jim Monos had basically no NFL career after the Bills.  So there is that. 

[Jrb1979]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I wonder where Kincaid and Elam are today if they started day 1. Elam has regressed sitting on the bench. Kincaid’s best play came when Dawson Knox was injured.

They may have played better. I don't see either one being that game breaker that La Porta or Sauce Gardiner has shown to be. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

They may have played better. I don't see either one being that game breaker that La Porta or Sauce Gardiner has shown to be. 

Kincaid had one of best rookie TE seasons ever.

 

I think if Kincaid was the clear TE1 last year he would’ve had monster numbers. His 2nd year he battled injuries and split time all season.

 

Sauce is a top 5 pick.

Edited Monday at 02:41 AM by Buffalo_Stampede