Jim Monos w/ critical comments on Bills front office, coaching, roster moves

[transplantbillsfan]

Well he sounds bitter for just missing out on team success.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Well he sounds bitter for just missing out on team success.

Pick a year? Always bitter. These 2 write this article every year. 😂

Edited February 15 by Buffalo_Stampede

[MikePJ76]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And the 2024 class just got ranked 30/32 on NFL.com

I bet the same people who did that ranking picked the bills  to miss the playoffs and Allen and the offense to take a step back this year.  
 

draft classes take a minimum of 3 years to properly evaluate.

[The 9 Isles]

This 💯

 

”Monos doesn't seem high on the Coleman pick and returned to his talking point about Buffalo not getting enough true difference makers at the top of the draft. "Guys that run 4.2's, they don't exist later in the draft. Coleman types exist later in the draft. You can get big jumpball wideouts that can't run. That's what the fourth round is for."

[MikePJ76]

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

No he was on the inactive list quite a bit. After first coming off IR they gave him like 2 games but he was terrible so the rest of the year he was mostly inactive including against KC if I'm remembering correctly.

 

But I won't jump to conclusions about this draft class yet. The 2022 draft class that looks so good now looked terrible after year one. Elam lost his job to a 6th rounder in Benford who looked decent but nothing special back then, Cook was stuck as RB2, Bernard barely saw the field and when he did he looked terrible, Shakir couldn't carve out a role.

 

2023 is not looking good, admittedly it was known to be a poor class but still. A 1st and a 4th used on Kincaid looks like very poor value right now, Torrence has been decent but iffy, Williams has been decent but iffy, none of the later round picks did anything.

 

Beane's recent draft legacy will depend on how last year's draft picks develop. It is just alarming how he's drafted exactly ZERO difference makers except for the very first pick he ever made. Spencer Brown is as close as he's gotten to finding an elite player with an original draft pick. Way too many singles or strike outs.

After his surgery he was activated and then was allowed to work back in.

 

off the top of my head he played against the lions, rams, pats, jets to finish the year.

 

He was not a healthy scratch in the playoffs because as I stated many times in this thread he was a rookie 3 tech who had wrist surgery.  He returned and seemingly gave it his best shot and he just wasn’t right.   They had enough depth there to not force him on the field.

 

next year I am going to remember all the people in this thread twisting his season to fit some narrative.   
 

players take time to develop.  I mean as a fan of the bills alone, Bernard, brown, cook, shakir etc took some time to become the players they are.   Bailing on Carter after his rookie season in which he had to have a wrist surgery is bizarre to me.

 

i feel the exact way about Coleman.  They are both going to be important parts of this team going forward.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, The 9 Isles said:

This 💯

 

”Monos doesn't seem high on the Coleman pick and returned to his talking point about Buffalo not getting enough true difference makers at the top of the draft. "Guys that run 4.2's, they don't exist later in the draft. Coleman types exist later in the draft. You can get big jumpball wideouts that can't run. That's what the fourth round is for."

Which guys went last year in the fourth round and on who were/are  better players than 21 year old Keon Coleman?  
 

just looking for a name to go with this repeated cliche.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I have a question. If they fire MCdermott and the Bills don’t advance past the AFC Championship game, what happens next?

 

Does the next coach get as long as McDermott or are we talking about having to win now or get fired?

Just wait until Allen is 35 and then we won’t have regrets that we let Sean go too early. 

[Old Coot]

6 hours ago, FireChans said:

QB’s matter more than coaches. They always have.

My point, which I could have made clearer, is that Brady might have become better for having had a coach like Belichick. The Belichick-enhanced Brady then goes to Tampa Bay and wins another SB; meanwhile, Belichick cannot instaneously produce another Brady.

 

It may be that QBs matter more than coaches but it may also be that a good coach can make a QB more successful. That's all I'm saying.

 

It is notoriously difficult to predict which college QBs will be successful in the pros. Look at how many 1st round QBs turn out to be busts.

[Old Coot]

6 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

Given he had Bernie Kosar and Drew Bledsoe, two players with much more raw talent, I would yes. 

A bit uncertain what you mean here. I agree that Kosar & Bledsoe had more raw talent than Brady but it takes more than raw talent to succeed in the NFL as a QB. It requires a rare combination of talent, vision, spatial recognition, quick information processing and the drive to study for hours the cutups supplied to the QB.

 

I cannot say for sure that Belichick made Brady better but given that most agree that Belichick is an excellent coach and that Brady was not an outstanding collegiate QB, it seems likely that Belichick's coaching made Brady a better QB.  Not many QBs become better in the pros than they were in college (Brady & Josh Allen and maybe one or two others excepted.)

[Richard Noggin]

22 minutes ago, Old Coot said:

My point, which I could have made clearer, is that Brady might have become better for having had a coach like Belichick. The Belichick-enhanced Brady then goes to Tampa Bay and wins another SB; meanwhile, Belichick cannot instaneously produce another Brady.

 

It may be that QBs matter more than coaches but it may also be that a good coach can make a QB more successful. That's all I'm saying.

 

It is notoriously difficult to predict which college QBs will be successful in the pros. Look at how many 1st round QBs turn out to be busts.

 

Obviously Andy Reid in his absolute prime, with a stable of excellent assistant coaches, helped to maximize Mahomes' growth. Especially with a mostly redshirt year behind an established pro like Alex Smith (who'd been highly drafted but needed mucho development). Footwork, mechanics, and pocket presence/tendencies all needed work for Mahomes to become elite. One might even argue we've seen some regression on those fundamentals lately from Mahomes. 

 

Shame McD and Co choked away 2021 (13 seconds) because NFL offenses were still ahead of defenses if you had a mobile, howitzer-armed QB and WRs who could get deep. Things began to tighten up the next year. Mahomes and Allen both benefitted from a high water mark for passing offenses, historically. Mahomes just had MUCH, much better coaching (and weapons overall, for sure). 

[folz]

8 hours ago, folz said:

 

It would be interesting to see a selection of teams who have drafted in a similar range to ours to see if they had any better luck consistently with high-impact players in that range.

 

 

 

I'm circling back around to my own query:

 

Only three teams have made the playoffs in each of the last five seasons (KC, Buffalo, and Tampa). So, I thought that I would take a look at the top of their last four drafts to see if they fared any better (picking late in each round like Buffalo). [Yes, I understand it's still hard to judge the 2024 draft for any of the teams.]

 

Buffalo (2021-2024 drafts, rounds 1-3)

12 picks overall (3 firsts, 5 seconds, and 4 thirds). Average draft pick: 59

Players: Greg Rousseau, Boogie Basham, Spencer Brown, Kaiir Elam, James Cook, Terrell Bernard, Dalton Kincaid, O'Cyrus Torrence, Dorian Williams, Keon Coleman, Cole Bishop, DeWayne Carter.

Summary: 6-7 starters, 3-4 backups, 2 Busts

 

Tampa (2021-2024 drafts, rounds 1-3)

13 picks overall (3 firsts, 5 seconds, and 5 thirds). Average draft pick: 60

Players: Joe Tryon-Shoyinka, Kyle Trask, Robert Hainsey, Logan Hall, Luke Goedeke, Rachaad White, Calijah Kasey, Cody Mauch, YaYa Diaby, Graham Barton, Chris Braswell, Tykee Smith, Jalen McMillan

Summary: 7-8 starters, 4-5 backups, 1 Bust (at this point)

 

Kansas City (2021-2024 drafts, rounds 1-3)

11 picks overall (4 firsts, 6 seconds, and 1 third). Average draft pick: 51

Players: Nick Bolton, Creed Humphrey, Trent McDuffie, George Karlaftis, Skyy Moore, Bryan Cook, Felix Anudike-Uzomah, Rashee Rice, Wanya Morris, Xavier Worthy, Kingsley Suamataia

Summary: 7 starters, 3 backups, 1 Bust

 

I'd say overall, all three teams did about the same as far as filling roles on their team. As far as impact players, K.C. probably has the edge. But, they also had one more first round pick and one more second round pick than the Bills or Bucs over that span, and KC's average pick was 8-9 spots ahead of Buffalo and Tampa.

 

So, I don't know, what do you guys think?

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

12 hours ago, bills6969 said:

Wait - was this guy head of player personnel when we drafted EJ manual in the first round? If so, no credibility 

lol they couldn’t draft impact players picking in the early first and he’s gonna criticize the gm picking late first perennially 🤣. It’s honestly pretty hilarious 

 

the hit late for a late first rounder isn’t much different than rounds 2-5 honestly.  Idk why people get so hung up on it.  If beane wasn’t hitting on anything then that’s obviously a huge issue.  But if we hit in rounds 1-2 and missed a few of the home run mid round picks instead it probably FEELS better but is functionally the same as what we’ve been doing 

 

 

Edited February 15 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[LABILLBACKER]

12 hours ago, WNYFAN1 said:

Honestly, this all sounds just about right to me.

 

How much of the success of Beane/McDermott is just getting lucky with Allen?

If McB hadn't drafted 17, they both would've been fired 4 years ago.  I didn't know Beane had never been a scout?  That's terrifying...I guess guys like Elam, Epenesa & Basham make sense now. As far as McD, you guys are on your own. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

50 minutes ago, folz said:

 

I'm circling back around to my own query:

 

Only three teams have made the playoffs in each of the last five seasons (KC, Buffalo, and Tampa). So, I thought that I would take a look at the top of their last four drafts to see if they fared any better (picking late in each round like Buffalo). [Yes, I understand it's still hard to judge the 2024 draft for any of the teams.]

 

Buffalo (2021-2024 drafts, rounds 1-3)

12 picks overall (3 firsts, 5 seconds, and 4 thirds). Average draft pick: 59

Players: Greg Rousseau, Boogie Basham, Spencer Brown, Kaiir Elam, James Cook, Terrell Bernard, Dalton Kincaid, O'Cyrus Torrence, Dorian Williams, Keon Coleman, Cole Bishop, DeWayne Carter.

Summary: 6-7 starters, 3-4 backups, 2 Busts

 

Tampa (2021-2024 drafts, rounds 1-3)

13 picks overall (3 firsts, 5 seconds, and 5 thirds). Average draft pick: 60

Players: Joe Tryon-Shoyinka, Kyle Trask, Robert Hainsey, Logan Hall, Luke Goedeke, Rachaad White, Calijah Kasey, Cody Mauch, YaYa Diaby, Graham Barton, Chris Braswell, Tykee Smith, Jalen McMillan

Summary: 7-8 starters, 4-5 backups, 1 Bust (at this point)

 

Kansas City (2021-2024 drafts, rounds 1-3)

11 picks overall (4 firsts, 6 seconds, and 1 third). Average draft pick: 51

Players: Nick Bolton, Creed Humphrey, Trent McDuffie, George Karlaftis, Skyy Moore, Bryan Cook, Felix Anudike-Uzomah, Rashee Rice, Wanya Morris, Xavier Worthy, Kingsley Suamataia

Summary: 7 starters, 3 backups, 1 Bust

 

I'd say overall, all three teams did about the same as far as filling roles on their team. As far as impact players, K.C. probably has the edge. But, they also had one more first round pick and one more second round pick than the Bills or Bucs over that span, and KC's average pick was 8-9 spots ahead of Buffalo and Tampa.

 

So, I don't know, what do you guys think?

 

 

Kc wins so nobody questions them but they’ve been about the same as us draft success wise the last few years imo 

 

Chris jones makes pretty much all their defensive picks look better than they are it feels like to me. Guys like Karlaftis would be nobodies on the bills because they’re not playing alongside an elite dlineman which makes everybody’s lives easier 
 

Id be interested to see what happens to some of our recent defensive picks if we could pull off the Myles Garrett trade.  Guys like Rousseau would probably look elite, dbs would not have to cover nearly as long, linebackers responsibilities would be a bit different without having to supplement the pass rush as much, and so on 

Edited February 15 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Thurman#1]

12 hours ago, WNYFAN1 said:

Honestly, this all sounds just about right to me.

 

How much of the success of Beane/McDermott is just getting lucky with Allen?

 

 

"Getting lucky" is simply your way of spinning a terrific decision.

 

What they did ... they got it right. No particular reason to think that it wasn't just simply good decision-making coming from a good process.

[Thurman#1]

2 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

If McB hadn't drafted 17, they both would've been fired 4 years ago.  I didn't know Beane had never been a scout?  That's terrifying...I guess guys like Elam, Epenesa & Basham make sense now. As far as McD, you guys are on your own. 

 

 

That's certainly one guess, that he would've been fired. No particular validity to it. We'll never know either way, because, you know, if different things had happened, results would have changed and nearly every decision after would have been made differently. 

 

Thing is ... they did draft 17. They didn't have to. And while now that looks like an easy decision, at the time it was really really unpopular. Most people would have made a different decision. Beane didn't. He nailed it, and apparently they like Allen from very very early in the process. 

 

So your argument here ... if they had not had a good process and not made that incredibly good decision ... yeah, thing is, they did. They've made decision after decision that have put them in contention every single year. Not every team with a great QB can say that or anything like it.

 

And yeah, Beane's never been a scout in terms of going on the road and covering an area. He's been doing player evaluation for most of his career.

 

Same with Howie Roseman. Same with plenty of GMs around the league.

[LABILLBACKER]

12 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I do think people (me included) are a little unfair to Beane. He has hit on a lot of great draft picks, including early round ones. We just tend to dwell on the not-so-good picks.

 

Allen, Tre, Edmunds, Dion, Oliver, Rousseau, AJE. All first and second round picks who I think panned out very well. 

Edmunds and Rousseau are both mediocre 1st round picks who will not be worthy of a 2nd contract with the Bills.  Tremaine poached tackles his whole career and after 4 seasons, Groot averages 6.2 sacks.  Is that a game wrecker?...elite?....worth 20M/ yr?  

 

Can we just admit that defensively Beane's failed in the first 3 rounds.  So much so that we resorted to desperation signing a 33 yr old pass rusher. And I guarantee you Donald made Von, not visa versa.  If by some act of God we can trade for Maxx/ Myles....at least they're still in their 20's.....

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

11 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Edmunds and Rousseau are both mediocre 1st round picks who will not be worthy of a 2nd contract with the Bills.  Tremaine poached tackles his whole career and after 4 seasons, Groot averages 6.2 sacks.  Is that a game wrecker?...elite?....worth 20M/ yr?  

 

Can we just admit that defensively Beane's failed in the first 3 rounds.  So much so that we resorted to desperation signing a 33 yr old pass rusher. And I guarantee you Donald made Von, not visa versa.  If by some act of God we can trade for Maxx/ Myles....at least they're still in their 20's.....

I’ll never understand the ‘Rousseau is mediocre’ talk tbh. He is multiple tiers above Edmunds at his respective position to the point where it’s jarring seeing them mentioned in the same sentence like that 😂

 

also von was really good pre knee injury, if anything beane is probably kicking himself for not trading for Von the season before.  It’s very likely we win the Super Bowl that year if we outbid LA for him.  Idk how Donald could’ve made Von when he only played with him like half a year haha and he was exactly the same guy before he got hurt for the bills.  5 sacks in 8 games for LA, 8 sacks in just under 10.5 games for the bills.  It’s weird how quick people forget, felt like a season altering injury when Von went down that year.  He was playing great 

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

40 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

That's certainly one guess, that he would've been fired. No particular validity to it. We'll never know either way, because, you know, if different things had happened, results would have changed and nearly every decision after would have been made differently. 

 

Thing is ... they did draft 17. They didn't have to. And while now that looks like an easy decision, at the time it was really really unpopular. Most people would have made a different decision. Beane didn't. He nailed it, and apparently they like Allen from very very early in the process. 

 

So your argument here ... if they had not had a good process and not made that incredibly good decision ... yeah, thing is, they did. They've made decision after decision that have put them in contention every single year. Not every team with a great QB can say that or anything like it.

 

And yeah, Beane's never been a scout in terms of going on the road and covering an area. He's been doing player evaluation for most of his career.

 

Same with Howie Roseman. Same with plenty of GMs around the league.

Well he did some stellar player evaluation on Elam, AJE and Basham.  Listen I get it. Because they dug us out of the drought and had the incredible insight to land Josh, they get some kind of "lifetime job security award".  And that's fine too.  In fact I'll go on record as saying Terry is very satisfied with the teams current situation. I don't know if the goal is the SB anymore? I see how aggressive the Eagle organization is with drafting and void years, maybe Terry doesn't have the cash or the motivation to commit to the same strategy?  Everything is a guess and speculation.   But my gut says if Josh wasn't on this team, getting to double digit wins might be a little dicey.....ya think?

Edited February 15 by LABILLBACKER

[BobbyC81]

13 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

I think they liked Coleman because of his basketball roots which mirrored those of Kincaid who’s body control and hands looked elite his rookie year. I can’t believe how Jaggy they both looked late in the year.  

 
Wasn’t it Beane who made the comment about Kincaid needing to get stronger to better compete?  Maybe that had something to do with the trainer being let go.

[LABILLBACKER]

2 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

I have a guess! You’re not very well educated on a lot of these topics 😂

Oh those insufferable McB supporters.  Check back with me in a few years when our current situation is the same.  We'll have a good laugh then on who's educated.