Mango Posted February 12 Posted February 12 I think Cooks value is/was in the $8-10M range. But Barkley/Henry sort of reset the RB market and I think that will push his value to about $12M. $15M seems steep for a player I am already stretching to $12M for. Quote
JROC INTEL Posted February 12 Posted February 12 Id ask for 15 too as a good negotiating starting point. Id only pay 12-13 2 Quote
Straight Hucklebuck Posted February 12 Posted February 12 2 minutes ago, Mister Defense said: Yikes, as if the last few years never happened in the NFL. Same kind of shocking ignorance that had posters railing against Marshawn Lynch and thinking his trade to the Seahawks was a good move. Good, great, elite running backs are NOT a dime a dozen. Please watch the last season again... and with open eyes. He won't get 20 million but likely 15 on average. And nope, he will cost more than a dime. Sorry. It is just like the McDermott haters, and often the same group. You cannot change their views, no matter the clear trend in the NFL the last few years, and the immense value of a high level running back to creating a championship contender. They just close their eyes and repeat the cliches about running backs and the running game not being that relevant, that so many ignorant people have been saying for years. They believe that repeating others' ignorant thoughts makes theirs legitimate, sharp. That’s not what’s happening here. 1. Cook is already going to be compensated for his performance as he is eligible for $5.6M in 2025 because of escalators being achieved. So he’s out of that usual $1.5M - $2.0M range. 2. Who doesn’t like James Cook? He’s one of the few players in the 2nd Round that Beane has hit on. Imagine that, you take a player with NFL pedigree from a champion D1 SEC school who is actually athletic and not just a Ryan Denney lunchpail guy and it works. 3. I think the Bills will extend him. That’s been Beane’s entire model. Draft, develop and retain. 4. Restructure your existing contracts - and extend Cook, Bernard, Benford, Shakir, Rousseau - is there money available for any of these difference making DE? The Bills are -$11M now (29th) and can open up reasonable room with a series of restructures. Mike Ginnitti of Spotrac has said it will be difficult for the Bills to pull off the Garrett trade and that he expects other teams with more resources to blow the Bills out of the water for Garrett and Crosby. 5. Building on point 4, sounds like a healthy percentage of fans are happy to just run it back with the same offense and effectively defense. I’d just point out the Bills were +24 in turnover margin, +28 including Playoffs. In addition to the others mentioned above, bring back Hollins, Ty Johnson, Reggie Gilliam. Ray Davis showed everyone enough. So the backfield stays the same for the foreseeable future. I kind of like taking one of these athletic RBs - Hampton, Judkins, Henderson, Johnson, Hampton, having Cook play out his $5.6M and reevaluating in 2026. 6. The Franchise Tag exists 7. James Cook is going to sit out his age 25-26 year old season ala Le’Veon Bell? 8. We’re just reacting and throwing out ideas man, relax. Obviously in a Brady offense the running backs touch the ball a lot and the staff worked hard to find the perfect balance of touches for all three. I don’t need to open my eyes, I watched all the games and I saw Cook, I saw his speed. We all saw what it looked like with Frank Gore, Devin Singletary and Zack Moss. We see the speed makes a difference. 2 3 Quote
ChronicAndKnuckles Posted February 12 Posted February 12 12 hours ago, Process said: His brother tweeted "$20M" about 1000x during the season. James must owe him money or something. I fully expect a hold out this summer. His brother? Please, not another Diggs situation 🤦♂️ I love Cook, but am more than happy w/ Ray Davis & Ty Johnson 1-2 punch if that’s what it comes down to. Winning teams don’t pay RBs unless they are generational pure runners like Saquon Barkley or All-Purpose McCaffrey types. The Bills under Beane have never forked over big money for that position. I have no sympathy for players that can’t honor their current contracts. Dude doesn’t have leverage like that to hold out. 3 Quote
Magox Posted February 12 Posted February 12 2 minutes ago, DapperCam said: The Eagles, Ravens and Texans all had very similar seasons to the prior season. Only the Eagles really improved, but last season was a weird one (they went from SB, to looking like an elite team and then going on a late season slide, then back to the SB). It isn’t clear to me at all that paying a play making RB is a good investment. This Ravens offense was better than any other they've ever had, I never had fear of stopping the Ravens offense than like this year. The Eagles offense was most certainly better than last year, that running game made teams try to load up and stop the run making their passing game more efficient, same with the Ravens. Houston fell apart this year in their passing game, it's a fact that Mixon carried that offense during the middle of the season. But that's not the best way of looking at it, look at the teams that those players left. The Raiders, - Josh Jacobs was their focal point in 2023 and they were 8-9, he leaves and then their running game disappears and they go 4-13 The Titans, - Derrick Henry had a down year but was still their focal point and they went 6-11 to going to 3-14 The Giants - Saquon was their entire offense and they went from 6-11 to 3-14 Cincinnati - is the only team that ended up with the same record. That's as clear as it gets, the loss of those running backs aside from Mixon were detrimental to those teams, all because their GM's wanted to be moron bean counters who operate in the old way of thinking. And for what? $2M difference a year of what they were willing to pay. That's a symptom of what was wrong with those GM's which is why they are either no longer there or they are on the hot seat. Quote
Einstein's Dog Posted February 12 Posted February 12 6 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: 3. I think the Bills will extend him. That’s been Beane’s entire model. Draft, develop and retain. Mike Ginnitti of Spotrac has said it will be difficult for the Bills to pull off the Garrett trade and that he expects other teams with more resources to blow the Bills out of the water for Garrett and Crosby. 5. Building on point 4, sounds like a healthy percentage of fans are happy to just run it back with the same offense and effectively defense. Beane's model has not been to pay RBs - quite the opposite. Not only has Beane not paid RBs, Beane also doesn't like malcontents in the locker room. There haven't been many public negotiations of salaries. While it may be difficult to trade for a Garrett/Crosby it is Beane's job. It's not the amount of resources teams have available, it's what the teams will spend. And how many teams have an RB of the level of J Cook that they are putting into the trade? Not many, I'd imagine. I think most fans want a change/upgrade on Defense. An elite Defensive lineman is much more desirable than a J Cook extension. Quote
Straight Hucklebuck Posted February 12 Posted February 12 1 minute ago, Einstein's Dog said: Beane's model has not been to pay RBs - quite the opposite. Not only has Beane not paid RBs, Beane also doesn't like malcontents in the locker room. There haven't been many public negotiations of salaries. While it may be difficult to trade for a Garrett/Crosby it is Beane's job. It's not the amount of resources teams have available, it's what the teams will spend. And how many teams have an RB of the level of J Cook that they are putting into the trade? Not many, I'd imagine. I think most fans want a change/upgrade on Defense. An elite Defensive lineman is much more desirable than a J Cook extension. Yeah that’s technically true - but what has there been to work with? 2018 30-year old LeSean McCoy, Taiwan Jones, Chris Ivory 2019 Gore, Singletary, Yeldon 2020 Singletary, Moss, Jones 2021 Singletary, Moss, Jones, Breida 2022 Singletary, Cook, Hines 2023 Cook, Harris, Johnson, Murray, Fournette 2024 Cook, Johnson, Davis I think it’s clear Cook is the best RB the Beane Bills have had. You’re right though - up until now the model has not been extend the running back - only one logical before Cook would have been Singletary. Moss stunk right away. Quote
Magox Posted February 12 Posted February 12 36 minutes ago, Mister Defense said: Yikes, as if the last few years never happened in the NFL. Same kind of shocking ignorance that had posters railing against Marshawn Lynch and thinking his trade to the Seahawks was a good move. Good, great, elite running backs are NOT a dime a dozen. Please watch the last season again... and with open eyes. He won't get 20 million but likely 15 on average. And nope, he will cost more than a dime. Sorry. It is just like the McDermott haters, and often the same group. You cannot change their views, no matter the clear trend in the NFL the last few years, and the immense value of a high level running back to creating a championship contender. They just close their eyes and repeat the cliches about running backs and the running game not being that relevant, that so many ignorant people have been saying for years. They believe that repeating others' ignorant thoughts makes theirs legitimate, sharp. Old habits die hard. When you get used to thinking a certain way which has been validated by many GM's in this league then it gets hard to outgrow outdated habits. The league was very pass heavy and that trend is beginning to become more ground centric. 2020 NFL teams ran the ball on average of 41.9% of the time, last year in 2023 it was 43.8%. This year, 47.9% Why? Because teams like the Bills were built to try to stop the pass, going into more Nickle base schemes. How did teams react? By going with personnel to take advantage of lighter boxes. Who had the best scoring offenses in the NFL this year? The Lions, Ravens and the Bills. Philadelphia ran the ball 56.29% of the time Ravens ran the ball 53.55% The Bills ran the ball 49.26% The Lions ran the ball 46.96% What do they have in common? Philadelphia has Saquon, Ravens have Henry, The Bills have Cook and Lions have Jamyr Gibbs. And they all won their divisions this year. Success leaves clues. Yeah, paying $13M a year for Cook is a no brainer. 1 Quote
Madmax09 Posted February 12 Posted February 12 Prediction. They trade him to the Chiefs for a 3rd rd draft pick . 1 Quote
Magox Posted February 12 Posted February 12 5 minutes ago, Madmax09 said: Prediction. They trade him to the Chiefs for a 3rd rd draft pick . I would consider slitting my wrist if that happened. 4 Quote
DapperCam Posted February 12 Posted February 12 20 minutes ago, Magox said: This Ravens offense was better than any other they've ever had, I never had fear of stopping the Ravens offense than like this year. The Eagles offense was most certainly better than last year, that running game made teams try to load up and stop the run making their passing game more efficient, same with the Ravens. Houston fell apart this year in their passing game, it's a fact that Mixon carried that offense during the middle of the season. But that's not the best way of looking at it, look at the teams that those players left. The Raiders, - Josh Jacobs was their focal point in 2023 and they were 8-9, he leaves and then their running game disappears and they go 4-13 The Titans, - Derrick Henry had a down year but was still their focal point and they went 6-11 to going to 3-14 The Giants - Saquon was their entire offense and they went from 6-11 to 3-14 Cincinnati - is the only team that ended up with the same record. That's as clear as it gets, the loss of those running backs aside from Mixon were detrimental to those teams, all because their GM's wanted to be moron bean counters who operate in the old way of thinking. And for what? $2M difference a year of what they were willing to pay. That's a symptom of what was wrong with those GM's which is why they are either no longer there or they are on the hot seat. Sorry, that is not as clear as it gets. I will rebut each point. - Raiders: The difference between these seasons was in 2022 the Raiders got the fired coach bump. They went 3-1 their last 4 games. Jacobs didn’t even play in those games. - Giants: They got very similar RB production this season as last season. I would actually say 2024 Tracy Jr outperformed 2023 Barkley. They lost more games because they were intentionally tanking and released the best QB on their roster to go through a carousel of backups. - Titans: This team just epically collapsed, and I don’t it would have been any different with Henry there. Rudolph got a lot of starts, Levis regressed majorly, and they had a new HC. Do you really think a top 5 RB adds 3-4 expected wins to a team? I doubt the Vegas line even moves when a RB is ruled out. Maybe a half a point. I hope you don’t gamble for your own sake. 1 1 Quote
Billz4ever Posted February 12 Posted February 12 (edited) I like Cook a lot but to ask for top of the league RB pay for a guy that just squeaked over the 1K mark in the last game of the season is crazy. 16th in the NFL in rushing and averaging 63 yards a game does not warrant being paid like you're in the top 3. Edited February 12 by Billz4ever Quote
Don Otreply Posted February 12 Posted February 12 It’s just posturing on Cook’s behalf, I suspect he knows that he isn’t going to be paid that, 1 1 Quote
Don Otreply Posted February 12 Posted February 12 37 minutes ago, Magox said: Old habits die hard. When you get used to thinking a certain way which has been validated by many GM's in this league then it gets hard to outgrow outdated habits. The league was very pass heavy and that trend is beginning to become more ground centric. 2020 NFL teams ran the ball on average of 41.9% of the time, last year in 2023 it was 43.8%. This year, 47.9% Why? Because teams like the Bills were built to try to stop the pass, going into more Nickle base schemes. How did teams react? By going with personnel to take advantage of lighter boxes. Who had the best scoring offenses in the NFL this year? The Lions, Ravens and the Bills. Philadelphia ran the ball 56.29% of the time Ravens ran the ball 53.55% The Bills ran the ball 49.26% The Lions ran the ball 46.96% What do they have in common? Philadelphia has Saquon, Ravens have Henry, The Bills have Cook and Lions have Jamyr Gibbs. And they all won their divisions this year. Success leaves clues. Yeah, paying $13M a year for Cook is a no brainer. Agree, can’t make holes in your offense for what would be penny wise, pound foolish reasoning, gotta keep the band together…, 1 Quote
DrDawkinstein Posted February 12 Posted February 12 To be fair, he said "$15 Mill year" NOT "$15 Mill a year" Maybe he meant this past season was so good for him, it was worth $15M and he's ready to sign a 3yr/$15M extension. 🤷♂️ Hey, a guy can dream. 1 Quote
SCBills Posted February 12 Posted February 12 (edited) 1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: 3. I think the Bills will extend him. That’s been Beane’s entire model. Draft, develop and retain. 4. Restructure your existing contracts - and extend Cook, Bernard, Benford, Shakir, Rousseau - is there money available for any of these difference making DE? Yes, that's the model. The problem is none of these players, except maybe Cook, are game changers. And Cook immediately torpedoes his value to us by wanting to get paid 15M per. And we pay guys like Knox, Milano and Oliver as game changers and none of them are. Is Bernard a game changer? No, he's a good player. Is Benford a game changer? No, he's a good player. Is Shakir a game changer? No, he's a good player. Is Rousseau a game changer? No, he's a good player. And part of the reason we can't get over the hump is due to tying up so much money and draft assets in good, not great, players. Edited February 12 by SCBills Quote
Alphadawg7 Posted February 12 Posted February 12 Not a chance Cook and his agent try for $15M...at least seriously enough to hold out. No one on planet Earth can possibly believe he would or should be paid that. BUT...it does make me concerned he is gonna want a bigger contract than we should invest in a RB. Now if we don't have any big contracts at WR, paying a RB higher money isn't much of an issue...until the time comes you need to pay a WR. For example, if we draft a rookie this year as our outside WR solution, he will be on a rookie deal, Keon is on a rookie deal, Shakir is on a rookie deal (although might get an extension this offseason), and Hollins is affordable. But if we try and sign Higgins, trade for DK, or find some other vet trade where there is more money at WR, then the RB contract is a problem. For me...I don't want to lock us out of WR money, so I would only extend cook if it was less than $10M personally. I like him, I do hope he stays, but the contract has to make sense. Davis is a promising RB himself, and this draft is loaded with enough RB talent to find a 1-2 punch to pair with Davis. And when you have this OL and Josh Allen at QB, you don't need a Saquan level RB to succeed here. In fact, I am quite skeptical Cook would live up to his deal on a lot of other teams if he got a deal north of $10M. Go spend the bigger money on Crosby or Garret. 1 Quote
BillytheKid Posted February 12 Posted February 12 Trade him with a couple of first rounders for Myles Garrett. Then draft a RB and we still have Ray Davis. Sign Ty Johnson back. 1 Quote
Aussie Joe Posted February 12 Posted February 12 (edited) 1 hour ago, Madmax09 said: Prediction. They trade him to the Chiefs for a 3rd rd draft pick . Get r done Beane …. Chiefs running game looked terrible in the SB… I’m actually leaning Cook gets an extension around $10m a year … Edited February 12 by Aussie Joe Quote
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