klos63 Posted March 13 Posted March 13 55 minutes ago, Simon said: There were about a half dozen times through the second half of the season that I wanted to start a thread about the possibility of extending him, but I'm still having a hard time overcoming my own biases. If the Bills are comfortable with how they can work him into the cap without excessively limiting their ability in other areas, I think they should go for it. One thing that possibly gives them pause is I think he probably has some gangster in him, which might make them hesitant to make that kind of commitment. I also think the same thing of Benford. If they don't do it, they are essentially creating a hole that is going to have to be filled with another 2nd rnd pick. I like Ray Davis, but he is never going to be James Cook. What do you mean by gangster? 2 Quote
DrDawkinstein Posted March 13 Posted March 13 11 minutes ago, Logic said: Indeed. But Cook's lack of workhorse size, build and pass blocking ability -- the likely reasons he didn't approach the level of touches those guys got -- is another reason I believe he's not worth top dollar. If I'm giving a running back a second contract and paying him like one of the five or ten best backs in the league, I want him to be able to handle a Henry/Robinson level workload if called upon to do so. Maybe. But he showed big growth and was able to make a number of plays not only running through initial contact, but powering guys over into the end zone last year. I think a lot of it has to do with McD's "rotation" philosophy and fresh legs. It's not like he came out only on 3rd downs. It was usually for entire series or even quarters at a time. That tells me the coach likes the stable of guys we have, and wants it like this, not that Cook cant do it. 1 Quote
SoonerBillsFan Posted March 13 Posted March 13 9 hours ago, Doc Brown said: That's the argument against Cook as he's not an every down back so he's not going to get as many carries as a bell cow RB. Jerry Ostriski said the same on his YouTube cast Quote
UKBillFan Posted March 13 Posted March 13 43 minutes ago, Magox said: Not the same at all. James Cook's networth is probably 2% of what Josh Allen's is and Josh Allen has a guaranteed contract of $250 M more that will be coming in and has significantly more corporate endorsement deals. The shelf life of a QB if successful is around 15 years, the shelf life of a successful RB is about half of that. This is arguably the last big contract that he will ever have and then it dries up. I don't begrudge him for trying to make enough money to leave a legacy behind. Could he have handled it differently? Sure, but honestly I don't care too much about that, it's not as if he is bad mouthing the organization or its players. Is there much of a difference to a RB whether a deal is at $12m or $15m? Of course, this is assuming the Bills have offered as much as 12 - or anything at all. 10 and below I can understand the hold out. Above? Not so sure. Part of this might be to do with the Bills publicly acknowledging how important he is to the team. 15 would be an outward sign of that; a lot less, not so much. Quote
DrDawkinstein Posted March 13 Posted March 13 2 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said: Jerry Ostriski said the same on his YouTube cast And I'm not sure I buy that. Singletary never got more than 200 attempts in his time with the Bills. He was always splitting reps. As a matter of fact, Cook is the first and ONLY RB to get more than 200 attempts in a season under McD. I think it's more a coaching philosophy than a player deficiency. 1 Quote
SoonerBillsFan Posted March 13 Posted March 13 Just now, DrDawkinstein said: And I'm not sure I buy that. Singletary never got more than 200 attempts in his time with the Bills. He was always splitting reps. As a matter of fact, Cook is the first and ONLY RB to get more than 200 attempts in a season under McD. I think it's more a coaching philosophy than a player deficiency. While I get that, Beane needs to tell him you don't pay that kind of money to a non every down back. Esp. One that doesn't pass block well. Quote
DrDawkinstein Posted March 13 Posted March 13 (edited) 6 minutes ago, UKBillFan said: Is there much of a difference to a RB whether a deal is at $12m or $15m? Of course, this is assuming the Bills have offered as much as 12 - or anything at all. 10 and below I can understand the hold out. Above? Not so sure. Part of this might be to do with the Bills publicly acknowledging how important he is to the team. 15 would be an outward sign of that; a lot less, not so much. Yes, assuming a 3 yr deal, there is a big difference in what is likely your ONE TIME to make money between $36M and $45M. That difference of $9-10M is huge. If we're talking 4 years, that's $48M vs $60M. Huge difference. 2 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said: While I get that, Beane needs to tell him you don't pay that kind of money to a non every down back. Esp. One that doesn't pass block well. And Cook is totally valid in saying "Ok, but YOU chose to make me a not every down back, and YOU chose to not pay that. Thanks for the chance I'll go find someone who will" And someone will. And our 2nd best offensive weapon behind the league MVP will walk out the door over $2-3M year while we pay guys like Deonta Harty $5M/yr for nothing, and Curtis Samuel $8M/yr... Edited March 13 by DrDawkinstein 1 2 Quote
SoonerBillsFan Posted March 13 Posted March 13 2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Yes, assuming a 3 yr deal, there is a big difference in what is likely your ONE TIME to make money between $36M and $45M. That difference of $9-10M is huge. If we're talking 4 years, that's $48M vs $60M. Huge difference. And Cook is totally valid in saying "Ok, but YOU chose to make me a not every down back, and YOU chose to not pay that. Thanks for the chance I'll go find someone who will" And someone will. And let him Quote
DrDawkinstein Posted March 13 Posted March 13 (edited) 2 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said: And let him I'd rather cut the Curtis Samuel types and keep our 2nd best weapon. Edited March 13 by DrDawkinstein 5 Quote
Logic Posted March 13 Posted March 13 11 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: That tells me the coach likes the stable of guys we have, and wants it like this, not that Cook cant do it. Fair enough. But whatever the reasons for Cook not ever having shown workhorse ability, the fact remains that we don't know if he can do it, because he never HAS done it. That may very well be the fault of coaching, but still. The entire sample size of his playing career, from his Bills days back through his days at Georgia, show that he's never been a three-down, workhorse running back. Now that CAN be fine IF you're an excellent pass-catching 3rd down back. But Cook isn't the Bills 3rd down back, either, which likely owes largely to his inadequacies in pass blocking. So to me, if you haven't demonstrated workhouse ability, haven't demonstrated major pass catching or pass blocking ability, and aren't the 3rd down back on your team, why am I giving you a big second contract? Just my opinion. I realize I'm in the minority here. 3 Quote
Simon Posted March 13 Posted March 13 57 minutes ago, klos63 said: What do you mean by gangster? Maybe I spelled it wrong 1 1 Quote
klos63 Posted March 13 Posted March 13 21 minutes ago, Simon said: Maybe I spelled it wrong Depends on what your were trying to spell. 58 minutes ago, Logic said: Fair enough. But whatever the reasons for Cook not ever having shown workhorse ability, the fact remains that we don't know if he can do it, because he never HAS done it. That may very well be the fault of coaching, but still. The entire sample size of his playing career, from his Bills days back through his days at Georgia, show that he's never been a three-down, workhorse running back. Now that CAN be fine IF you're an excellent pass-catching 3rd down back. But Cook isn't the Bills 3rd down back, either, which likely owes largely to his inadequacies in pass blocking. So to me, if you haven't demonstrated workhouse ability, haven't demonstrated major pass catching or pass blocking ability, and aren't the 3rd down back on your team, why am I giving you a big second contract? Just my opinion. I realize I'm in the minority here. Regarding pass catching- 97 receptions in 3 seasons, 9 yards average. Not too bad for a 2 down player. He's had some great plays as a receiver. I think a td on 4th down against the dolphins this season, huge play to start the game. Quote
ColoradoBills Posted March 13 Posted March 13 16 hours ago, Simon said: Wow, that is weird. I can't even access it to work with it. You are a unique sonofabitch! I knew I'm "special". No one will believe me. Quote
Einstein's Dog Posted March 13 Posted March 13 2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said: You mean the one COMMENT he made deep on someone else's post that had less then 3 full words of "15 mill year"? So what? Who cares? Put on your big boy pants, put your phone down, build a bridge and get over it. Diggs was having huge blowouts with the Head Coach, in front of everyone, on the first day of OTAs. THAT is what got him out the door. The Cook situation is nothing like that. Get a grip. I think you need to get a grip. There were a variety of problems leading up to Diggs departure but there were clues on social media. J Cook's social media post indicates to many of us that negotiations with Cook are going to be a problem. Unlike you and Cook, most people do not feel he is worth $15M. 1 Quote
Simon Posted March 13 Posted March 13 50 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: I knew I'm "special". No one will believe me. They believe you. Just not to your face. 1 Quote
DrDawkinstein Posted March 13 Posted March 13 50 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said: I think you need to get a grip. There were a variety of problems leading up to Diggs departure but there were clues on social media. J Cook's social media post indicates to many of us that negotiations with Cook are going to be a problem. Unlike you and Cook, most people do not feel he is worth $15M. Log out of social media. And show me where I've ever argued he's worth $15M. You're taking and making this all too personally. Whether assuming things about Cook, or assuming things about me and my stance. Quote
first_and_ten Posted March 13 Posted March 13 13 hours ago, Thrivefourfive said: Im going yfour/$forty. You? I like that offer, but I might go as high as 4 years, 11 per year, 30/35 guaranteed 1 Quote
klos63 Posted March 13 Posted March 13 3 minutes ago, wppete said: Is Cook still yapping on social media about a contract? I'm not on social media... how many posts has he made about his contract? 1 Quote
wppete Posted March 13 Posted March 13 5 minutes ago, klos63 said: I'm not on social media... how many posts has he made about his contract? Good question. Im mot sure either. Quote
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