James Cook on IG Live - "15 mill year" EDIT: Scrubbed his IG and Doubled Down on Twitter

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, Warriorspikes51 said:

Crazy trade idea:    Cook for J.Waddle

take a seat …Im going to make you giddy … Cook, Elam and AJE for Chase …

[Warriorspikes51]

Just now, Aussie Joe said:

take a seat …Im going to make you giddy … Cook, Elam and AJE for Chase …

Naw my idea is actually somewhat fair.

 

Bengals would be complete idiots to trade Chase for anything less than multiple high picks

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Naw my idea is actually somewhat fair.

 

Bengals would be complete idiots to trade Chase for anything less than multiple high picks

Is it ? It’s not going to happen though …just like my idea 

 

Edited February 14 by Aussie Joe

[BillsFanForever19]

21 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Is it ? It’s not going to happen though …just like my idea 

 

Exactly.

 

There's been no buzz about Miami being open to moving Waddle. Even if there were - they wouldn't want to move him in the Division and we wouldn't want to move Cook within the Division.

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Exactly.

 

There's been no buzz about Miami being open to moving Waddle. Even if there were - they wouldn't want to move him in the Division and we wouldn't want to move Cook within the Division.

Neither team would consider moving talented skill player to hated division rival ..

[BADOLBILZ]

40 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Are you trying to use volume stats to downplay Cook’s value? If so, add TDs. He will always be a part of a committee. He was in college too. Henry, Gibbs, Barkley and Irving were the only starting RBs with higher YPC. Cook did so while seeing the 3rd fewest reps against 2 deep defenses. If you want to talk about how valuable he is, don’t try to give rushing yards or carries as your argument. His efficiency is what matters. McDermott and Beane believe in a RB by committee and that goes back to the Carolina days with Williams & Stewart. 

 

When it comes to contracts.......production matters.  

 

Not efficiency created in part out of planned absence because of that player's limitations.

 

Would you pay a rotational DE anywhere near the same as Myles Garret when that rotational DE has a higher pressure % but half the production of tackles/sacks/TFL/QB hits?

 

Of course not.

 

So why is paying Cook like a star to produce like a very good 2 down RB even a discussion?

 

He's a 1,000 yard back in a league where there are guys pushing 2,000 and earning less than what he wants.

 

And no the TD stat means very little.   Raheem Mostert, released today after a terrible season, had as many TD's in 2023(18) as Derrick Henry and Saquon Barkley had combined.   It's a low volume stat that is too often entirely unreflective of either work done OR dynamicism.   Was journeyman Kareem Hunt in 2023 anywhere near as valuable as James Cook when Hunt ran for 9 TD on just 135 carries versus Cook getting just 2 TD on 237 carries?  Of course not.     

 

[BillsFanForever19]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

When it comes to contracts.......production matters.  

 

Not efficiency created in part out of planned absence because of that player's limitations.

 

Would you pay a rotational DE anywhere near the same as Myles Garret when that rotational DE has a higher pressure % but half the production of tackles/sacks/TFL/QB hits?

 

Of course not.

 

So why is paying Cook like a star to produce like a very good 2 down RB even a discussion?

 

He's a 1,000 yard back in a league where there are guys pushing 2,000 and earning less than what he wants.

 

And no the TD stat means very little.   Raheem Mostert, released today after a terrible season, had as many TD's in 2023(18) as Derrick Henry and Saquon Barkley had combined.   It's a low volume stat that is too often entirely unreflective of either work done OR dynamicism.   Was journeyman Kareem Hunt in 2023 anywhere near as valuable as James Cook when Hunt ran for 9 TD on just 135 carries versus Cook getting just 2 TD on 237 carries?  Of course not.     

 

 

You're not wrong that production matters. But what matters just as much if not more is age, an ascending ceiling (Cook has gotten better every year), and wear and tear. As you said, he's used sparingly with us. Which results in less wear and tear. And when it comes to a player looking for a contract, they price themselves at their production per usage. He's not going to price himself lower bc the team he plays for utilizes him less.

 

Using Barkley and Henry as examples - Barkley is 3 years older and Henry is 6 years older. Barkley has had ACL reconstruction and Henry has had recurring foot issues. Cook has none of those.

 

And with each year generally comes a rise in the salary cap, which results in a rise in salary. That's why every year, there's a new top contract being handed out for a new position. And a new contract where people laugh and think they're overpaid.

 

All that said, i'm not saying *we* should pay him 15. But him asking for 15 isn't as insane as you'd think. If he hit the market, there's probably a team who would pay him that or close to it.

[Warriorspikes51]

37 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Neither team would consider moving talented skill player to hated division rival ..

Miami is a bum team and franchise that we can defeat 2x per season even after they have Cook
 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

26 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

You're not wrong that production matters. But what matters just as much if not more is age, an ascending ceiling (Cook has gotten better every year), and wear and tear.

 

 

Age is not on Cooks side. 

 

RB's generally peak at age 26.....and this season is Cook's age 26 season.......which he is under contract for.

 

After that there tends to be a sudden decline for most.   Which is not directly correlated to usage or "wear and tear".    This is why teams typically want to draft a RB and use them up.

 

https://www.fantasypros.com/2021/07/at-what-age-do-running-backs-decline-2021-fantasy-football/

 

I thought it was particularly telling when the author said these guys are due for decline...........then listed Derrick Henry and then a half dozen guys......who would then subsequently fall off.  

 

Henry was very high use compared to most on the list.  

 

The odds are AGAINST Cook bucking this trend.  

 

If he does?  Good for him and the team he is with but that's not a risk I would take when RB's are so easy to replace and my team is perennially cap-strapped.

[Bferra13]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Age is not on Cooks side. 

 

RB's generally peak at age 26.....and this season is Cook's age 26 season.......which he is under contract for.

 

After that there tends to be a sudden decline for most.   Which is not directly correlated to usage or "wear and tear".    This is why teams typically want to draft a RB and use them up.

 

https://www.fantasypros.com/2021/07/at-what-age-do-running-backs-decline-2021-fantasy-football/

 

I thought it was particularly telling when the author said these guys are due for decline...........then listed Derrick Henry and then a half dozen guys......who would then subsequently fall off.  

 

Henry was very high use compared to most on the list.  

 

The odds are AGAINST Cook bucking this trend.  

 

If he does?  Good for him and the team he is with but that's not a risk I would take when RB's are so easy to replace and my team is perennially cap-strapped.

It's not the age typically, it's the amount of carries. I'm told 2000 college and NFL carries is the magic number. He was used sparingly in college and only has 533 NFL carries. Dont get me wrong though, id be the first one to package him away for Garrett or Crosby. He's great, but replaceable.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

When it comes to contracts.......production matters.  

 

Not efficiency created in part out of planned absence because of that player's limitations.

 

Would you pay a rotational DE anywhere near the same as Myles Garret when that rotational DE has a higher pressure % but half the production of tackles/sacks/TFL/QB hits?

 

Of course not.

 

So why is paying Cook like a star to produce like a very good 2 down RB even a discussion?

 

He's a 1,000 yard back in a league where there are guys pushing 2,000 and earning less than what he wants.

 

And no the TD stat means very little.   Raheem Mostert, released today after a terrible season, had as many TD's in 2023(18) as Derrick Henry and Saquon Barkley had combined.   It's a low volume stat that is too often entirely unreflective of either work done OR dynamicism.   Was journeyman Kareem Hunt in 2023 anywhere near as valuable as James Cook when Hunt ran for 9 TD on just 135 carries versus Cook getting just 2 TD on 237 carries?  Of course not.     

 

He has 70 less scrimmage touches from college to now than Ray Davis. He’s ascending and fresh. The Bills already have the complementary guy in Davis and likely will bring back the 3rd piece in  Ty Johnson.

 

Effiency matters more than gross stats as you illustrated with the Mostert example. I was saying, “if you’re trying to mislead people with gross stats why are you conveniently leaving out that he had the most rushing TDs in the league despite being 20th in carries?” Cook was 5th amongst starters in YPC, and scored at an alarming rate (on a team with a QB that ran for a dozen more). He also never fumbles. He was a top 5ish RB last year that peaked in the playoffs. He’s absolutely the best skill player on the Bills. 

 

I’m also not a fan of the 2 down back argument. The Bills don’t want/need him to play as a pass blocker. They didn’t use Shady in those situations either. Cook stays fresh by not taking a beating picking up blitzing linebackers. That’s not a negative. Johnson is perfect in that role and as a receiving back. Now should they have had him out there on the final drive? Of course, he’s their best skill player (not including JA obviously). 
 

Cook is an ascending back, that’s arguably a top 5 guy and certainly top 10. The Bills don’t have any other skill players that are close to top 5 or 10. RBs are cheap too. They’re paying their second TE $10M a year. They can afford to allocate the $ to Cook because they have $17,761,391 in cap hits allocated to WR. For comparison, the Seahawks have over $62.5M in cap hits dedicated to 2 WRs (obviously they’ll try to lower that but you get the point). The Bills can afford a bigger investment in Cook because they don’t have big money tied up with the other skill guys. 

Edited February 15 by Kirby Jackson

[BillsFanForever19]

[TheFunPolice]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Derrick Henry and Saquon Barkley are paid less.  Barkley doubled his rushing yards last year and Henry almost did.  Did this message board suddenly go back to the 90's with running back evaluations?

 

I'm just looking at a key offensive player who puts up TDs, moves the chains, and is consistently making plays for us.

 

To me that's worth 14 mil a year for a short term deal. 

[BillsFanForever19]

26 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

If he does?  Good for him and the team he is with but that's not a risk I would take when RB's are so easy to replace and my team is perennially cap-strapped.

 

That's where i'm at, for the most part. We're too perennially strapped and have too many pressing needs to be paying tippy top dollar for a RB. If he plays hardball and refuses to come down - i'd have to reluctantly say goodbye.

 

I do disagree though that he'll be "so easy to replace". James Cook isn't just another RB. We've spent the entire Beane regime Drafting RB's on Day 2, signing Free Agents, trading for Hines, etc. No one has come close to the kind of weapon James Cook is. Ray Davis and Ty Johnson aren't giving you that kind of vision, speed, elusiveness, and shiftiness in between tackles. He's not just a guy running behind a good Offensive Line. And you'd be hard pressed to get the same kind of Running Back he's become by just Drafting another guy. Far more likely you'd just be Drafting another Devin Singletary than you would a James Cook.

Edited February 15 by BillsFanForever19

[mikemac2001]

12 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Ya don’t attack him dude is trying to get paid he probably has this one big chance why wouldn’t he go for it 

 

 

[ghostwriter]

15 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

I'm just looking at a key offensive player who puts up TDs, moves the chains, and is consistently making plays for us.

 

To me that's worth 14 mil a year for a short term deal. 

If the Bills were really committed to winning they would extend Cook and Shakir and then sign Tee Higgins in Free Agency.

[BADOLBILZ]

32 minutes ago, Bferra13 said:

It's not the age typically, it's the amount of carries. I'm told 2000 college and NFL carries is the magic number. He was used sparingly in college and only has 533 NFL carries. Dont get me wrong though, id be the first one to package him away for Garrett or Crosby. He's great, but replaceable.

 

 

No, it's graphed as age related decline as well.   It's proven to be a bad gamble betting on RB's over age 26, regardless of mileage.   The wall for some of the best might be 30 but for most the decline is significant at 27.

 

I tend to use mileage more with regard to entering the league.   Like I remember telling all the Breece Hall enthusiasts that the dude had already burned a lot of his miles in college.   Cook isn't the physical presence that Hall was at his size though.   When Cook loses a tick of speed/quickness......that could be catastrophic.   He has average contact balance,  is not a smart player, is not physical enough to block the blitz effectively if he WERE smart enough to be relied upon.....and he has surprisingly sketchy receiving skills.

 

 

Edited February 15 by BADOLBILZ

[BADOLBILZ]

32 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He has 70 less scrimmage touches from college to now than Ray Davis. He’s ascending and fresh. The Bills already have the complementary guy in Davis and likely will bring back the 3rd piece in  Ty Johnson.

 

Effiency matters more than gross stats as you illustrated with the Mostert example. I was saying, “if you’re trying to mislead people with gross stats why are you conveniently leaving out that he had the most rushing TDs in the league despite being 20th in carries?” Cook was 5th amongst starters in YPC, and scored at an alarming rate (on a team with a QB that ran for a dozen more). He also never fumbles. He was a top 5ish RB last year that peaked in the playoffs. He’s absolutely the best skill player on the Bills. 

 

I’m also not a fan of the 2 down back argument. The Bills don’t want/need him to play as a pass blocker. They didn’t use Shady in those situations either. Cook stays fresh by not taking a beating picking up blitzing linebackers. That’s not a negative. Johnson is perfect in that role and as a receiving back. Now should they have had him out there on the final drive? Of course, he’s their best skill player (not including JA obviously). 
 

Cook is an ascending back, that’s arguably a top 5 guy and certainly top 10. The Bills don’t have any other skill players that are close to top 5 or 10. RBs are cheap too. They’re paying their second TE $10M a year. They can afford to allocate the $ to Cook because they have $17,761,391 in cap hits allocated to WR. For comparison, the Seahawks have over $62.5M in cap hits dedicated to 2 WRs (obviously they’ll try to lower that but you get the point). The Bills can afford a bigger investment in Cook because they don’t have big money tied up with the other skill guys. 

 

 

Efficiency does not matter more than production.   C'mon now, don't be ridiculous.   

 

You can't be more efficient than Mike Gillislee in 2016.   He literally lead the NFL in yards per carry AND(despite the contradictory nature of the 2 stats) 3rd down conversions of 2 or less in 2016.    AND he scored 9 TD's on 110 touches versus Cook's lesser % of 18 on 239.    MG also had 5.7 yards per touch that season versus 5.3 for Cook last year.

 

And he and Karlos had been just as efficient the year before.   Karlos had 9 TD's on like 104 touches and he averaged 5.6 versus MG's also absurd 5.7 in 2015.  

 

2 years in a row MG did that 5.7.   He was ascending too, right?

 

Didn't mean he or Karlos were worth top RB pay.   

 

I mean, what do you think Ty Johnson is worth if Cook is worth $15M?  

 

Ty Johnson averaged almost 16 yards per catch and 8.4 yards per touch and 5.2 yards per carry.   Those numbers are astronomical AND he rushes for 4.6 yards per carry for his career and can actually pass block.   And for his career he's almost 6 yards per touch.  More than Jim Brown averaged.  He's a human highlight reel on his 390 touches.  

 

If efficiency means more than production than I guess give him $15M too.

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, mikemac2001 said:

Ya don’t attack him dude is trying to get paid he probably has this one big chance why wouldn’t he go for it 

 

 

I get why agents have their clients use social media to negotiate but it just seems like a terrible idea.

 

It gets headlines. Puts some media pressure on the team. Typically all the players could do is hold out but that’s too late. I just feel like it turns fans against the players.
 

Fans always react poorly to this stuff. I don’t understand why. There is never anything personal about it. 

Like I said before, fans are quick to cut a player underperforming but if a player wants to get more money and uses the only power they have, we get mad.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I get why agents have their clients use social media to negotiate but it just seems like a terrible idea.

 

It gets headlines. Puts some media pressure on the team. Typically all the players could do is hold out but that’s too late. I just feel like it turns fans against the players.
 

Fans always react poorly to this stuff. I don’t understand why. There is never anything personal about it. 

Like I said before, fans are quick to cut a player underperforming but if a player wants to get more money and uses the only power they have, we get mad.

 It’s no different than the Jason Peters debacle in 2009.