S Jevon Holland FA Speculation

[FireChans]

41 minutes ago, BananaB said:

He started like 4 games. Throw him to the curb, he’s a piece of *****. Wasted 2nd rounder

 

Others teams put their rookies in week 1, no mention of them all year on this board until they see them in a playoff game and then all the talk is about how we should have drafted them.  🤷🏼‍♂️

He sucked in almost all of them.

 

Are you still a “play Elam more” guy or can we admit that sometimes guys really don’t deserve to play more?

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, FireChans said:

He sucked in almost all of them.

 

Are you still a “play Elam more” guy or can we admit that sometimes guys really don’t deserve to play more?

 

Yep. Guys have to earn their place on the field. That's the NFL. The Bills have never been to scared to play rookies who deserve to play. Tre White started week 1, Zay Jones started week 1, Dion Dawkins and Matt Milano started by the middle of their rookie seasons. Tremaine Edmunds started week 1, Josh started week 2. Ed Oliver started week 2. Devin Singletary started week 1. Dawson Knox started by week 4 his rookie year.  Gregory Rousseau started week 1, Spencer Brown started by week 4. Christian Benford (as a 6th round pick) started week 1. Dalton Kincaid and O'Cyrus Torrence started week 1.  

 

Guys who didn't start as rookies and then came on to become starters later it is Cook, Bernard, Shakir from that 2022 class and then Gabe Davis and AJ Epenesa. Of those only Epenesa was not the starter by the middle of year 2. He only really became a starter this past year in year 5. Maybe Bishop will come on in 2025 and end up on this list. It is still possible, it is my hope. But it is equally possible he joins Cody Ford, Boogie Basham, Kaiir Elam and Zack Moss as early picks that never earn a starting spot. 

Edited February 12 by GunnerBill

[finn]

13 hours ago, Success said:

I thought Bishop looked really good at times.  I think we can go w/ him & Rapp heading into the season.

 

There are other areas that need more attention and money.

 

I agree about Bishop, but we do need a quality veteran next to him. When they had Poyer and Hyde back there, they led the league in defensive EPA by a wide margin. If the Bills want to continue rushing only four, they need a quality secondary to pair with a potent rush. If Beane had found the resources to sign Justin Simmons last year, I think that would have put them over the top.

 

But it won't be easy. They need a WR1, a top pass rusher, a starting corner, AND a quality safety. You could argue they're all equally important, but, after this Super Bowl (which echoed the Tampa Bay demolition of Fey Patrick), I fear Beane will once again sell the farm for an aging pass rusher who will flash then get hurt, setting the team back for another three years. 

 

I'm rooting for you, Beane, but I have to say my faith in you is dwindling as your meh drafts pile up. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

14 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Feels like putting a 2nd Round Pick into a Safety last season and then signing the most expensive Safety on the market this season is a lot of resources put into that position group.

 

But if they feel Cole Bishop needs another year after missing Training Camp last season (and looking overwhelmed as a Rookie) and the plan is to move on from Taylor Rapp after this year and have Cole Bishop replace him then - it could make some sense.

 

We do need a replacement and upgrade from Damar Hamlin. Though Holland would be a lot of money and I'd definitely be prioritizing the starting replacements at WR and CB and upgrades at DE and 1T DT first.

This. Too many resources for a position of least importance on defense. I’d rather invest in a CB if they are going the secondary route. 

17 minutes ago, finn said:

I agree about Bishop, but we do need a quality veteran next to him. When they had Poyer and Hyde back there, they led the league in defensive EPA by a wide margin. If the Bills want to continue rushing only four, they need a quality secondary to pair with a potent rush. If Beane had found the resources to sign Justin Simmons last year, I think that would have put them over the top.

 

But it won't be easy. They need a WR1, a top pass rusher, a starting corner, AND a quality safety. You could argue they're all equally important, but, after this Super Bowl (which echoed the Tampa Bay demolition of Fey Patrick), I fear Beane will once again sell the farm for an aging pass rusher who will flash then get hurt, setting the team back for another three years. 

 

I'm rooting for you, Beane, but I have to say my faith in you is dwindling as your meh drafts pile up. 

I’m in the minority, but I think people are giving up on Cooper wayyyy too soon. Buffalo invested a high draft to get him and it is common knowledge that he was injured. I want to see with a full TC.

[MrEpsYtown]

8 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

This. Too many resources for a position of least importance on defense. I’d rather invest in a CB if they are going the secondary route. 

I’m in the minority, but I think people are giving up on Cooper wayyyy too soon. Buffalo invested a high draft to get him and it is common knowledge that he was injured. I want to see with a full TC.

 

Yeah, I like Cooper back, obviously depending on the price, but he is a much better player than what we saw. 

 

But he is the best match IMO.

 

In terms of free agency, I don't know what is better than Amari, unless there is a trade to be made somewhere, like a Cooper Kupp. 

 

Higgins probably not happening. Diggs obviously a no. Chris Godwin is a slot. Darius Slayton? Hollywood Brown? Maybe. 

 

Bouncebacks or younger guys who still have potential... KJ Osborn, Elijah Moore, Josh Palmer, Dyami Brown? 

 

You just aren't getting anyone better than Amari Cooper IMO. 

 

[buffblue]

All I know is the key to stopping Mahomes is not built on your safeties. For as good as Hyde and Poyer were, we still were shredded defensively when it mattered the most. If you don't affect the quarterback nothing else will matter.

 

I also find it telling that many Miami fans do not think highly of Holland. I've seen him get exposed in coverage plenty of times over the years. He is good sideline to sideline in pursuit but is not worth anywhere near the money that is being discussed. I would actually be pretty mad if the Bills spent big on this guy.

[st pete gogolak]

Given limited amount to spend on FA, I’d rank position of need as DE, CB, DT, WR and S.  Move Taron to FS (because we’re going to a base 4 - 3!). Add Bishop, Rapp and a mid round draft choice and we are good to go.

[MikePJ76]

I like the idea of Signing Andre Cisco and then letting Bishop or rapp be the third guy and come in with the sub packages like rapp did in 23.

 

Rapp has been hurt for each of the playoff runs now, missing both kc games.  He can't be relied on.

 

I would also sign Darius Slayton.  

 

Then you are rolling into the draft with no position screaming it needs help other than corner.

[BananaB]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am not throwing him to the curb. I am saying he wasn't out there because he was clearly a liability in coverage. The idea that just gets better if you stick him out there more.... well it didn't. 

 

He might just be a bad pick. He might turn it around. You get more opportunities as a 2nd round pick than if you were a 5th or 6th rounder. So Bishop is going to get more shots but he is already in a spot where he really needs to start taking them. If he does not win the job in camp next year (and I think he is competing with Rapp not Hamlin or whoever replaces Hamlin anyway... he is a box safety not a center fielder) then the prognosis does not look good.

Did you watch our coverage last year?. Your not last in the league on third and long if you don’t have coverage problems just about everywhere. 

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

He sucked in almost all of them.

 

Are you still a “play Elam more” guy or can we admit that sometimes guys really don’t deserve to play more?

I’m the get the guy on the field and let him improve kind of guy. Our whole D sucked in coverage last year, am I the only one who noticed that.  Which DB didn’t struggle in coverage this year? Benford had a good season but he had some bad games as well. Pretty much anyone one else sucked. 
 

Let’s replace our rookie after 4 starts because he ain’t making plays like the guy on the Super Bowl Champions who finished the season with about 20 starts. So stupid. Put the kid on the field and give hime time to improve. 4 ***** starts is not enough

Edited February 12 by BananaB

[JP51]

13 hours ago, ghostwriter said:

I think Rapp and Bishop are nice pieces but I felt like Buffalo paid a heavy price for the absence of Poyer and Hyde at times. It would make a lot of sense to add a playmaker at safety.

My issue with Rapp is he is as destructive to himself and his team mates as he is to the other team... he is like an unguided missile LOL... 

[NI Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, JP51 said:

My issue with Rapp is he is as destructive to himself and his team mates as he is to the other team... he is like an unguided missile LOL... 

I agree, and often wondered if he was told to wear that Gaurdian Cap to protect others more than for his own safety!

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Did you watch our coverage last year?. Your not last in the league on third and long if you don’t have coverage problems just about everywhere. 

I’m the get the guy on the field and let him improve kind of guy. Our whole D sucked in coverage last year, am I the only one who noticed that

 

We did suck in coverage. But Bishop was busting coverages, playing his assignments badly and being in the wrong place all the time. We did get him on the field. He didn't improve. He made the exact same mistake on the JuJu seam play first drive of the AFCCG that he made on the Nico Collins touchdown 3 months prior. He has a lot of improvement to do going into year 2 and he needs to show it in camp and pre-season if he wants to start. 

[JoshAllin]

If they were able to start Hamlin all season I don't see why they wouldn't let Bishop do the same

[FireChans]

54 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Did you watch our coverage last year?. Your not last in the league on third and long if you don’t have coverage problems just about everywhere. 

I’m the get the guy on the field and let him improve kind of guy. Our whole D sucked in coverage last year, am I the only one who noticed that.  Which DB didn’t struggle in coverage this year? Benford had a good season but he had some bad games as well. Pretty much anyone one else sucked. 
 

Let’s replace our rookie after 4 starts because he ain’t making plays like the guy on the Super Bowl Champions who finished the season with about 20 starts. So stupid. Put the kid on the field and give hime time to improve. 4 ***** starts is not enough

When you suck worse in coverage than Damar Hamlin who also sucks, you kinda don’t want that guy on the field.

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. Guys have to earn their place on the field. That's the NFL. The Bills have never been to scared to play rookies who deserve to play. Tre White started week 1, Zay Jones started week 1, Dion Dawkins and Matt Milano started by the middle of their rookie seasons. Tremaine Edmunds started week 1, Josh started week 2. Ed Oliver started week 2. Devin Singletary started week 1. Dawson Knox started by week 4 his rookie year.  Gregory Rousseau started week 1, Spencer Brown started by week 4. Christian Benford (as a 6th round pick) started week 1. Dalton Kincaid and O'Cyrus Torrence started week 1.  

 

Guys who didn't start as rookies and then came on to become starters later it is Cook, Bernard, Shakir from that 2022 class and then Gabe Davis and AJ Epenesa. Of those only Epenesa was not the starter by the middle of year 2. He only really became a starter this past year in year 5. Maybe Bishop will come on in 2025 and end up on this list. It is still possible, it is my hope. But it is equally possible he joins Cody Ford, Boogie Basham, Kaiir Elam and Zack Moss as early picks that never earn a starting spot. 

Even Keon started week 1 and he was arguably not even ready to start but showed enough good things.

 

Anyway, back on topic, I like Holland a lot, I think he would improve our back-end a lot, but I don’t like the Bills spending a second round pick on a safety then signing the best FA safety on the market. Just seems like bad business.

[BananaB]

12 minutes ago, FireChans said:

When you suck worse in coverage than Damar Hamlin who also sucks, you kinda don’t want that guy on the field.

Even Keon started week 1 and he was arguably not even ready to start but showed enough good things.

 

Anyway, back on topic, I like Holland a lot, I think he would improve our back-end a lot, but I don’t like the Bills spending a second round pick on a safety then signing the best FA safety on the market. Just seems like bad business.

Well we’ve done that with DLineman. Draft guys then sign guys that are average but keep them on the bench. Seems to be a trend

[FireChans]

Just now, BananaB said:

Well we’ve done that with DLineman. Draft guys then sign guys that are average but keep them on the bench. Seems to be a trend

Who

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, FireChans said:

 

Anyway, back on topic, I like Holland a lot, I think he would improve our back-end a lot, but I don’t like the Bills spending a second round pick on a safety then signing the best FA safety on the market. Just seems like bad business.

 

I didn't like the way they approached safety last offseason particularly. I think I said in August during camp I was really worried that having spent a 1st and 2nd on a wide receiver and safety I could see us coming out of the season with the biggest holes on the roster being a boundary receiver and a safety. 

[T master]

16 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Feels like putting a 2nd Round Pick into a Safety last season and then signing the most expensive Safety on the market this season is a lot of resources put into that position group.

 

But if they feel Cole Bishop needs another year after missing Training Camp last season (and looking overwhelmed as a Rookie) and the plan is to move on from Taylor Rapp after this year and have Cole Bishop replace him then - it could make some sense.

 

We do need a replacement and upgrade from Damar Hamlin. Though Holland would be a lot of money and I'd definitely be prioritizing the starting replacements at WR and CB and upgrades at DE and 1T DT first.

 

I wish they would have given Edwards more of a shot after he got fully healthy at a starting role over Hamlin ! Damar is a good depth player but IMHO not a starter, his instincts aren't good enough and he's a bit slow . Sure he had his moments this year on the errant throw but he was usually late to the party, I feel Bishop with a NFL off season and the experience he had this year will be much better and possibly a starter this year but they will get more talent in the draft & FA .

 

Rapp is okay but there was a reason why the Rams let him go, i saw more than a few times if he would have just paid attention to the receivers eyes  & looked back he could have had a lot bigger impact playing the ball than he did . Plus he gets hurt a lot .

 

There are definite improvements that need to be made & just by what has happened to this point already i can see that Beane & McD know what they need to accomplish the big factor will be cap space .

[FireChans]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I didn't like the way they approached safety last offseason particularly. I think I said in August during camp I was really worried that having spent a 1st and 2nd on a wide receiver and safety I could see us coming out of the season with the biggest holes on the roster being a boundary receiver and a safety. 

They honestly did a really ugly job replenishing the talent in those groups.

 

Reminded me of Beane’s strategy to build the OL years ago. Bring in 3-4 bargain bin guys and play the best ones. 
 

I think WR the position has the value where burning a high pick even if it doesn’t work is good value. A second on a safety when DB development is our HC’s specialty and that second round pick having a disastrous rookie year is like worst case scenario across the board. Bad value, bad process, AND bad outcome.

Edited February 12 by FireChans

[MrEpsYtown]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I didn't like the way they approached safety last offseason particularly. I think I said in August during camp I was really worried that having spent a 1st and 2nd on a wide receiver and safety I could see us coming out of the season with the biggest holes on the roster being a boundary receiver and a safety. 

 

Yes it's a pretty epic failure when considering that these are still huge needs.