build through the trenches

[JP51]

9 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

Here in Cincinnati, Mike Brown would keep him just out of spite. He'd tell him "young man, you can't tell me how to run my franchise." And then admonish him for having a weak handshake and not looking him in the eyes. And then he'd tell him "pull your pants up, nobody wants to see your underwear son!" as he walked away. 

That is one way to approach it LOL... 

[colin]

19 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

The failures with Boogie Basham, Cody Ford, Kaiir Elam is what hurt by thinking they could get the best out of what they perceived were talented players. 

 

honestly, this is it.

 

tons of value picks/good extensions (bernard kinda, milano, benford, brown, hamlin kinda, our back up o linemen, shakir, dawkins extension, the diggs trade net net was a big positive) home run in josh allen, and a few total absolute misses (kinkaid was not what you'd want, but not a total miss, coleman is off to a weak start, bishop is off to a weak start, carter is off to a weak start, elam looks simply awful, basham was a terrible pick, ford was a terrible pick, aj was a bad pick).

 

just this offseason, samuel and dquan and the other guys we signed in FA all suck, hollins was a value home run.  cooper trade didn't work out, but i like the attempt maybe if healthy he'd ball for us, douglas and hines the prior two years were not great (douglas was necessary for the first year, bad his second year).

 

if 3 or 4 of those high picks or FA moves were real hits, i think we'd be champions today.  hendrix over miller or something could have put us over (he was a FA out of NO, before cinci, right?).

 

the downside is how bad these picks and signings and some extensions have been, the upside is how close we are with what looks like lots of meat on the bone.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Do you excuse McDermott? I find it impossible to believe that Beane has autonomy, or even the deciding vote on who to draft and when. 

 

Many seem to forget that when the Bills traded the Mahomes pick to KC and drafted Tre White, Beane wasn't even with the team. It would even appear that McDermott brought him in. 

 

I suppose that Beane is easier to scapegoat.

 

 

Not believing Beane has the deciding vote on who to draft and when points out a problem with your thought process. He does.

 

McDermott did indeed help bring in Beane. But it's been 100% clear who's got what power and why. Beane controls the roster. They've said it a million times, everyone has agreed and there's never been a whisper otherwise except from folks as far outside as you and I.

 

Does McDermott tell Beane what he needs for his schemes? Yeah, and that almost certainly does affect Beane's thinking on who to draft. But there just isn't a question on whether Beane has autonomy.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Solomon Grundy said:

The failures with Boogie Basham, Cody Ford, Kaiir Elam is what hurt by thinking they could get the best out of what they perceived were talented players. 

 

 

Right, and no other teams have made bad picks on a first and two seconds in the last seven years.

 

Um, except all of them, really. Everyone misses. Absolutely everyone. In large numbers. Whereas not all that many teams built mostly around draft picks have put together teams as good as the Bills.

 

Certainly Basham and Ford were just bad picks and it now looks like Elam will turn out that way as well. 

 

As Jokeman pointed out the Chiefs have as many awful picks as we do.

 

And if you're going to argue the book isn't written on those guys, well, Skyy Moore was picked in the same draft class as Elam. Elam's crap while Moore hasn't had the book written on him? 

 

If you're going to refuse to count Anuike-Uzomah, Suamataia, Wanya Morris or Skyy Moore ...... how about Breeland Speaks, Lucas Niang, Mecole Hardman (a 2nd rounder) or Edwards-Helaire?

 

Everybody screws up. Everybody.

 

[Bill from NYC]

27 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Does McDermott tell Beane what he needs for his schemes? Yeah, and that almost certainly does affect Beane's thinking on who to draft. But there just isn't a question on whether Beane has autonomy.

Do you not see how the above sentences contradict? If McDermott tells him what position he wants Beane to draft and Beane does as McDermott wishes, how is this having autonomy? 

 

For example, if Beane wants a defensive tackle and McDermott wants a corner, are you making the case that Beane will win out every time? The relationship cannot completely be equal imo. I think that one of the HAS to have more power than the other. 

 

Also, do you think that Beane can fire McDermott? I for one strongly doubt it. 

 

In any event, I find this to be an interesting topic.

[GASabresIUFan]

11 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Everybody screws up. Everybody.

Correct.  Even Philly - such as WR Jalen Reagor (21st overall in 2020) and T Andre Dillard (22nd overall in 2019).  

[uticaclub]

1 hour ago, sunshynman said:

The are both considered top candidates, they would have multiple good teams vying for them.

Yes, they would be top candidates and I would wish them well. After 8 years I no longer billieve they will build and coach a team capable of making a Super Bowl. They can take their undersized dline and soft zone elsewhere and hope they hit on another QB.

17 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Correct.  Even Philly - such as WR Jalen Reagor (21st overall in 2020) and T Andre Dillard (22nd overall in 2019).  

No one bats 1.000 but you do hope they hit over the Mendoza line.

[Matt_In_NH]

3 hours ago, uticaclub said:

Just because Beane & McDermott would get jobs with last place teams isn’t a reason for a super bowl contender to keep them.

Did Beane and McDermott build the Super Bowl Contender from a last place team?

23 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Also, do you think that Beane can fire McDermott? I for one strongly doubt it. 

 

I believe they both report to Terry

1 hour ago, sunshynman said:

The are both considered top candidates, they would have multiple good teams vying for them.

I will just say generally speaking teams that are looking for GM's and coaches are not good.

[GETTOTHE50]

3 hours ago, zow2 said:

I used to think Beane WAS the smartest guy in the room.  That Josh Allen pick got a lot of mileage.  But the shine is off...

 

Beane is at the plate, he's behind in the count, and he needs to hit a home run asap.

He trimmed most of the fat of the roster last year offseason and the bills still made it to the AFC ship after everyone was picking them to be last place. 

[uticaclub]

19 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Did Beane and McDermott build the Super Bowl Contender from a last place team?

We weren't in last place with Rex as our coach. They were an 8-8 & 7-9 team, then improved to 9-7. Statistically, there was little difference among the seasons of 2015, 2016, and 2017. The change in discipline, leadership & Andy Daltons heroism was enough to secure a wildcard spot, but that success has since run its course.

9 minutes ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

He trimmed most of the fat of the roster last year offseason and the bills still made it to the AFC ship after everyone was picking them to be last place. 

Who added that fat?

[zow2]

11 minutes ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

He trimmed most of the fat of the roster last year offseason and the bills still made it to the AFC ship after everyone was picking them to be last place. 

 

Maybe it's too harsh, but the Bills are clumped in there with the Chiefs, Ravens and Lions as the teams whose seasons are considered a failure.  These are the Super Bowl or bust teams of 2024.   Sure, the Bills may have overachieved,,,I agree.  But when you have the season they had, and Allen is in his prime, losing in the AFC Championship was a fail.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

He trimmed most of the fat of the roster last year offseason and the bills still made it to the AFC ship after everyone was picking them to be last place. 

 

I understand some frustration, but why are people acting like we suck? We lost by 3 on the road in the AFCCG. We do not suck.

 

We do have some holes to address but our cap situation will be better and we have nice draft capital.  We also brought in some coaches with intriguing backgrounds making me wonder if our scheme and tendencies will be tweaked. 

 

Feel free to wail and moan if you like, but I enjoyed this season (despite the ending) and I’m already looking forward to next year. 

1 hour ago, zow2 said:

 

Maybe it's too harsh, but the Bills are clumped in there with the Chiefs, Ravens and Lions as the teams whose seasons are considered a failure.  These are the Super Bowl or bust teams of 2024.   Sure, the Bills may have overachieved,,,I agree.  But when you have the season they had, and Allen is in his prime, losing in the AFC Championship was a fail.

 

Only ONE team wins it all, so every other season was a failure? I don’t buy into that. It was disappointing, but I can’t call it a failure. 

 

 

.

 

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Edited 2 hours ago by Augie

[Magox]

If I were Beane I would make a call to the Titans and see what it would take to trade for Jeffery Simmons.  He's an absolute beast, and if he were playing for a top tier team he would be considered to be one of the top 4 DT's in the league.   He can rush the passer and stuff the run.   He is on a 4 year $23.5M per year contract that runs through 2027, he's only 27 years old and the Titans may entertain that trade offer considering where they are.

 

A trade for him would probably look like a 2025 1st, 2025 4th and a 2026 2nd.

 

Pick up some decent Pass rusher through FA and draft one with one of your premium picks and a mid rounder and hope that Javon Soloman develops along with Epenesa.    Having Oliver and Simmons in the middle would be huge for the defense.   

 

He's a couple years younger than Myles Garrett and will end up being a lot cheaper.   

[JGMcD2]

6 hours ago, nuklz2594 said:

eagles gm has drafted either an olinemen or dlinemen in the first round of EVERY draft since he has been the gm.

worked out pretty well. eagles lines are elite.

YO beanie...stop being the alleged smartest guy in the room.

Which stint 2010 - 2014 or 2019 - 2024? Or are you counting the time when he was demoted in between? 

 

He hasn’t even done that the past 5 drafts, let alone 14 straight seasons. 2020, 2021 and 2024 were WR, WR and DB in RD1. 

Edited 3 hours ago by JGMcD2

[JimmyNoodles]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

Do you not see how the above sentences contradict? If McDermott tells him what position he wants Beane to draft and Beane does as McDermott wishes, how is this having autonomy? 

 

For example, if Beane wants a defensive tackle and McDermott wants a corner, are you making the case that Beane will win out every time? The relationship cannot completely be equal imo. I think that one of the HAS to have more power than the other. 

 

Also, do you think that Beane can fire McDermott? I for one strongly doubt it. 

 

In any event, I find this to be an interesting topic.

This is how a good organization is run.  Beane and McD are going to discuss what the needs are and how they are going to approach the roster.  But, who ultimately has the final say if there's a disagreement such as you outline?  I'm putting my money on McD.   

[Jrb1979]

First thing that needs to be done if they want to build through the trenches is to end the rotation system they love to use. 

[Warriorspikes51]

14 minutes ago, Magox said:

If I were Beane I would make a call to the Titans and see what it would take to trade for Jeffery Simmons.  He's an absolute beast, and if he were playing for a top tier team he would be considered to be one of the top 4 DT's in the league.   He can rush the passer and stuff the run.   He is on a 4 year $23.5M per year contract that runs through 2027, he's only 27 years old and the Titans may entertain that trade offer considering where they are.

 

A trade for him would probably look like a 2025 1st, 2025 4th and a 2026 2nd.

 

Pick up some decent Pass rusher through FA and draft one with one of your premium picks and a mid rounder and hope that Javon Soloman develops along with Epenesa.    Having Oliver and Simmons in the middle would be huge for the defense.   

 

He's a couple years younger than Myles Garrett and will end up being a lot cheaper.   

 

This a great well thought out post.  Simmons would be an awesome get.  Especially if we can also upgrade at Edge.  Maybe Sweat or Mack if the other top tier guys aren't attainable 

[nosejob]

5 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

That’s not even close to true. He took Mitchell, a corner, in the first this year. Also he took WRs a couple times recently - Reagor and Smith. 

CooperD?

[FireChans]

4 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Do you excuse McDermott? I find it impossible to believe that Beane has autonomy, or even the deciding vote on who to draft and when. 

 

Many seem to forget that when the Bills traded the Mahomes pick to KC and drafted Tre White, Beane wasn't even with the team. It would even appear that McDermott brought him in. 

 

I suppose that Beane is easier to scapegoat.

Do you think Beane wants to draft good defensive linemen but McD tells him to draft crappy ones instead?

What is the argument here

[uticaclub]

18 minutes ago, Augie said:

Only ONE team wins it all, so every other season was a failure? I don’t buy into that. It was disappointing, but I can’t call it a failure. 

Every team operates on a different timeline. When you have a 28-year-old franchise quarterback who hasn't been to a Super Bowl, failing to reach the Super Bowl constitutes a failure for the season. It’s not just about the loss itself, but also how we lost: we were undermanned, out-schemed, showcased a soft defense, came out flat, and gave them an early lead. I don’t expect things to change moving forward.