build through the trenches

[Low Positive]

This entire board is engaging in a futile exercise where they try to copycat the Eagles because they just watched them win. The assumption is that if the Eagles and Chiefs played 10 times, the Eagles would win all 10 because they just won. That is never the case. Do the Bills need better pass rushers? Yes they do. But I didn't need to watch the Eagles win a game to tell you that. 

[mannc]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Beane has spent plenty of resources on DL-Rousseau, Oliver 1st round picks.  AJ 2nd round pick. $140 million Von.  High draft picks Boogie, Harrison.  FA signing Williams, Star, etc  Very little return on investment.

 

The problem is not that we ignore the DL.  The problem is missing again and again.

 

Ive always been a big Beane fan.  But his failures on DL, with our 1st round picks, and ignoring WR, my patience is wearing thin.

And the o-line, where we’ve never used a first round pick, is top three in the league.  

[ProcessTruster]

10 minutes ago, Pete said:

Not true.  In conductor of the WR train.  Grant would be an awesome 1st round pick.  DT is super deep in this draft.  I want DT with 2 of our first 3 picks.  I want S, Edge, CB too.  But we still need a #1 WR.  That’s all I’m asking. Don’t ignore WR for 5 years, then add Keon and think we are set.  Devote every draft pick, and FA $ on D, with the exception of adding one excellent WR.  

ok ok , but I know how this board works... 

 

so what will it be?  DT or "excellent" WR?   ya only have one (low) 1st rounder and limited cap space to splurge on a $25m+ "excellent" WR.  Lots of high priced roster guys to sign.

 

Can't have everything.   

[Don Otreply]

11 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

ok ok , but I know how this board works... 

 

so what will it be?  DT or "excellent" WR?   ya only have one (low) 1st rounder and limited cap space to splurge on a $25m+ "excellent" WR.  Lots of high priced roster guys to sign.

 

Can't have everything.   

But if ya try sometimes, ya just might find, ya get what ya need…

[Solomon Grundy]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

Beane has spent plenty of resources on DL-Rousseau, Oliver 1st round picks.  AJ 2nd round pick. $140 million Von.  High draft picks Boogie, Harrison.  FA signing Williams, Star, etc  Very little return on investment.

 

The problem is not that we ignore the DL.  The problem is missing again and again.

 

Ive always been a big Beane fan.  But his failures on DL, with our 1st round picks, and ignoring WR, my patience is wearing thin.

The failures with Boogie Basham, Cody Ford, Kaiir Elam is what hurt by thinking they could get the best out of what they perceived were talented players. 

[I'm Spartacus]

2 hours ago, london_bills said:

Hurts was able to hit deep a few times, we need a good fast WR for Allen aswell

Xavier Worthy would have fit that bill.

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

We're set at OL. 

Daquan also fell off a cliff after an elite first season here 

Carter looked great before the injury 

 

Wouldn't mind 2 DL in the first 3 picks. 

BPA. plug holes with FA

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

That’s not even close to true. He took Mitchell, a corner, in the first this year. Also he took WRs a couple times recently - Reagor and Smith. 

 

Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument!!  Did it stop the Germans from invading Pearl Harbor?

Edited 5 hours ago by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[The Jokeman]

16 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

The failures with Boogie Basham, Cody Ford, Kaiir Elam is what hurt by thinking they could get the best out of what they perceived were talented players. 

Meanwhile the Chiefs are doing a great job with guys like Felix Anudike-Uzomah, Kingsley Suamataia/Wayna Morris and Skyy Moore. 

[BillsShredder83]

58 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

This entire board is engaging in a futile exercise where they try to copycat the Eagles because they just watched them win. The assumption is that if the Eagles and Chiefs played 10 times, the Eagles would win all 10 because they just won. That is never the case. Do the Bills need better pass rushers? Yes they do. But I didn't need to watch the Eagles win a game to tell you that. 

In fairness, the last time KC lost in SB, looked exactly the same way.  Proof you can never draft in the trenches too much, you just g2 hit on em.  Personally I believe we have a DL developing problem.  Go find the Kromer of the DL and pay him whatever! Philly clearly does not have that problem, and is why their many high DL picks have worked out

55 minutes ago, mannc said:

And the o-line, where we’ve never used a first round pick, is top three in the league.  

Evidence piece 2.1 that we have a developing DL problem

[Solomon Grundy]

3 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Meanwhile the Chiefs are doing a great job with guys like Felix Anudike-Uzomah, Kingsley Suamataia/Wayna Morris and Skyy Moore. 

The book is not written in these guys yet. Our guys book is on the discount shelf 😎

[The Jokeman]

4 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

In fairness, the last time KC lost in SB, looked exactly the same way.  Proof you can never draft in the trenches too much, you just g2 hit on em.  Personally I believe we have a DL developing problem.  Go find the Kromer of the DL and pay him whatever! Philly clearly does not have that problem, and is why their many high DL picks have worked out

Evidence piece 2.1 that we have a developing DL problem

Hopefully Nielsen and  Rebrovich can help with that. 

2 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

The book is not written in these guys yet. Our guys book is on the discount shelf 😎

Skyy Moore book has been written, I don't think he caught a pass all season. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Not true.  In conductor of the WR train.  Grant would be an awesome 1st round pick.  DT is super deep in this draft.  I want DT with 2 of our first 3 picks.  I want S, Edge, CB too.  But we still need a #1 WR.  That’s all I’m asking. Don’t ignore WR for 5 years, then add Keon and think we are set.  Devote every draft pick, and FA $ on D, with the exception of adding one excellent WR.  

 

So the 4 names highlighted below very likely aren't going anywhere and good chance AJ is also back.  That leaves 4 or 5 roster spots open and you want 2 rookie DT's and a rookie at Edge.  That leaves only one to two spots left for any vet presence and you think having 3 rookies will improve things this coming season?

 

When people start posting about using multiple draft picks on the same position, you have to look at how the roster will end up looking.  You can do that with sixth or seventh rounders as good chance you can hide one of them on the PS, but anything above the 6th round would likely get grabbed up.  You need to have open spots that will improve the team.

 

Does the line need help, absolutely, but the idea of using multiple high picks on the same position is silly unless you're in the rebuild mode.  DL is a position that often takes time to get good.  It even took Bruce Smith a few years, great pass rusher from the start, but took a few seasons to get good against the run.  For these reasons with a team as close as the Bills are, I think they need more  high level vets on the DL than rookies.  On the other hand CB is a spot you can put a rookie on the field and they often will be fine.

 

[JP51]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

Even if they get Garrett, they should think about drafting two.

I agree... we still need a large 1T and I think Jones is pretty washed...  also, if you trade for Garrett, you may be looking at parting with a DL like Rousseau or Oliver in the package...  we have a lot of needs to improve the D. 

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

 

I agree. At some point they need to get over the hump. The Eagles moved on from Reid and he took them to a Super Bowl as well as a bunch of NFCCG appearances. My point was I don't think Beane would stay with Buffalo if he was a puppet GM. He could easily get another GM job with another team.

I posted on another thread... I get the need to get over the hump... but I look at it like this... you can also roll down the hill into the abyss too... (See Polian firing)... you then rely on Pegula to make the next Brilliant hire that improves upon these two... (I think they are a package) my money is on letting them evolve and not letting Terry go find an upgrade....  bottom line though, we need to get better in the FO, drafting and coaching...  not sure Pegula hiring a new GM to pick a new coach gets us there... 

[Solomon Grundy]

Beane should try to do what Howie Roseman did except go draft Michigan and Notre Dame defensive guys. Grant, Graham, Watts, etc.

[Low Positive]

3 minutes ago, JP51 said:

I agree... we still need a large 1T and I think Jones is pretty washed...  also, if you trade for Garrett, you may be looking at parting with a DL like Rousseau or Oliver in the package...  we have a lot of needs to improve the D. 

There is almost no way that players will go back in that trade. Players almost never go in both direction in NFL trades. Here is every trade from the past calendar year. It only happened 4 times, and those were all pretty minor trades. If Cleveland trades Garrett (which I think they won't), it will be for picks to do a cap and roster reset.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/transactions/trade/_/start/2024-02-11/end/2025-02-11

[JP51]

3 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

There is almost no way that players will go back in that trade. Players almost never go in both direction in NFL trades. Here is every trade from the past calendar year. It only happened 4 times, and those were all pretty minor trades. If Cleveland trades Garrett (which I think they won't), it will be for picks to do a cap and roster reset.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/transactions/trade/_/start/2024-02-11/end/2025-02-11

You could be 100% right... i have no clue what they are gonna look for we have seen speculation... but to your point they havent even agreed to trade him... now, I dont see this getting settled with Cleveland... and I do see him moving on, its hard to go back from a direct request to be traded and an open letter to the fans... thats pretty bridge burny to me... but stranger things have happened...  either way it will be interesting fodder until it plays out.. 

[sunshynman]

1 hour ago, uticaclub said:

Just because Beane & McDermott would get jobs with last place teams isn’t a reason for a super bowl contender to keep them.

The are both considered top candidates, they would have multiple good teams vying for them.

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, JP51 said:

You could be 100% right... i have no clue what they are gonna look for we have seen speculation... but to your point they havent even agreed to trade him... now, I dont see this getting settled with Cleveland... and I do see him moving on, its hard to go back from a direct request to be traded and an open letter to the fans... thats pretty bridge burny to me... but stranger things have happened...  either way it will be interesting fodder until it plays out.. 

Here in Cincinnati, Mike Brown would keep him just out of spite. He'd tell him "young man, you can't tell me how to run my franchise." And then admonish him for having a weak handshake and not looking him in the eyes. And then he'd tell him "pull your pants up, nobody wants to see your underwear son!" as he walked away. 

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, nuklz2594 said:

eagles gm has drafted either an olinemen or dlinemen in the first round of EVERY draft since he has been the gm.

worked out pretty well. eagles lines are elite.

YO beanie...stop being the alleged smartest guy in the room.

 

 

Probably been pointed out already how wrong that is, but here are the specific, with their non-lineman first rounders named:

 

2024 CB Quinyon Mitchell, no lineman till the 3rd

2021 DeVonta Smith, no lineman till the 2nd

2020 Jalen Reagor, no lineman till their second 4th round pick

2018 No first rounder. first pick was Dallas Goedert, no lineman till the 4th

2016 Carson Wentz. Their second pick, the #79 was a lineman.

 

Named GM in 2010, he hasn't had the buck stop with him the whole time, but he certainly has been the defacto GM since 2016.

 

So, no. only four of the last nine years have they pick lineman. That's 44.4%. And since linemen are nine of the 22 positions (40.9%) they've gone DL about as often as you'd expect if they just picked without thinking about position at all, almost if they just took the BPA.

 

Now, does he value and prioritize the lines? Hell, yeah. But a lot of the reason that their Dline is so good is that some of the best guys were early draft picks, guys who never got close to Buffalo. Philly has gone up and down with the win totals and that allowed them to draft much higher much more recently.

 

2023 #9 Jalen Carter

2022 #13 Jordan Davis

 

Those are two of their three highest picks since 2016 when Howie gained unquestioned control (2021 #10 De Vonta Smith). 

 

Two out of the three highest picks on lineman. That's a lot of the reason their DL particularly looks so very very good.

 

We haven't seen high picks since Josh started being a Josh. They drafted Carter, Davis and DeVonta besides way before we were sniffing the podium

 

Our last high pick was Eddie Oliver, a lineman.