Bills scored more points than any other team this season..

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m not sure how this spun so far out of control but to my 35,000 foot view, the defense needs MAJOR retooling at every level….DL, LB and secondary. Of the three levels, linebacker can probably wait, but even there Milano keeps getting hurt. The Bills could invest every single draft pick on defense and still not get it done. 

It's Coaching

No

 Its the Players

 

It's both. Time to upgrade the whole shebang

and that elusive to find for Beane receiver we all wish for 🧐

[Kirby Jackson]

3 hours ago, billsfan714 said:

We need a championship defense.  We scored the most points in the NFL counting the playoffs.   Fun fact, during the Kelly years, the Bills gave up 33 total points in 4 AFC championships.   Imagine a divisional round or AFC championship game , where McDs defense just gives up 20 points in the final game, how many times would we have advanced?    Im not asking for the 85 bears D, just something close to competent.

The Bills need to improve the DL and secondary. The Bills ALSO need to find a receiver(s) that can stretch the field vertically. I think that the stat is that only 2 teams saw less 2 high than the Bills. Allen and Cook were forced to operate against an extra defender in the box because they couldn’t get the safeties away from the LOS because of the lack of a vertical passing game. Imagine how many more points they could have scored? Everybody eats until they don’t. The offense worked fine until it didn’t. They don’t have lots of holes on offense but they have a giant one that they couldn’t overcome. 

Edited February 11 by Kirby Jackson

[JaCrispy]

14 hours ago, Billzgobowlin said:

This is a very interesting take.  Is it the drafting of talent or the coaching?  There is some talent there but doesn't seem to have consistency.  Rousseau, Epenesa and Oliver show flashes of dominance but they don't show up every week.  They have only one coach on the line and he doesn't have a lot of experience on the pro level.  I think a Kromer-type hire who knows how to sculpt the offensive line and knows what player he is looking for will help a lot.  I think he is integral in Torrence being a beast and the maturation of Spencer Brown.  Maybe this is what this Ryan Nielsen hire is about because he has a lot of experience on the line. Reading some about Nielsen is very interesting and might be a highly underrated hire and not to change philosophy as it is his ability to coach a dline https://www.jaguars.com/news/six-things-jaguars-fans-should-know-about-their-defensive-coordinator-ryan-nielsen

With regards to the d line, I feel it is definitely a failure to find top talent, more than coaching- even though I can never really know for sure…

 

Bills had plenty of opportunities at their various picks to take top end guys, that went off the board later…Instead they decided on Oliver and Groot…

 

Dont get me wrong, every now and again they have their moments, but they are not reliable…And I know fans don’t like hearing it, but I just don’t feel those guys have the “it” factor that you need to take a defense to the next level…

 

Secretly, I’ve been counting down the days until we can finally move on from the Oliver experiment, and get a DT with more size…

 

AJ Epinessa is NOT a starter, but is forced into that position because McBeane need to justify him being a high pick, and because we have nobody else…

 

Its really a sad state of affairs…we really need a D line overhaul…And it sux knowing that it usually takes multiple years for that to happen…

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

We need an overhaul on defense, an elite pass rusher, re-sign Groot also?, add another big 1 tech DT next to Oliver either FA or the draft, even if we re-sign Douglas I still think we need another guy back there with fresh legs but I'm hoping for an upgrade over Douglas who looked slow towards the end and a safety opposite of Cole Bishop who I think gets the start this season full time. 

[Kirby Jackson]

13 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

We need an overhaul on defense, an elite pass rusher, re-sign Groot also?, add another big 1 tech DT next to Oliver either FA or the draft, even if we re-sign Douglas I still think we need another guy back there with fresh legs but I'm hoping for an upgrade over Douglas who looked slow towards the end and a safety opposite of Cole Bishop who I think gets the start this season full time. 

Personally, I wouldn’t consider re-signing Groot at anything over about $14M. My guess is that he is in the $20M range. You just can’t pay role players, top of the market prices. That’s what they did with Knox and Oliver. Groot is a great trade chip this offseason. He is a pretty good player that is 12 months from being a pretty terrible contract for someone. 

[CoudyBills]

On 2/10/2025 at 10:07 PM, DrPJax said:

Yeah , that scoring title will make for a great parade and will be talked about for years , especially against the great competition in our division. Which part of the eagles squad played a bigger role in their victory,,,the d with a score , 2 picks , 6 sacks , about a 45% pressure rate , controlling the Top ,limiting Kelce , holding KC to 6 points till garbage time , or,,,,hurts playing pretty well , saquan playing ok, their wr playing very well , or,, special teams?   
 

Just saying , we could score till we started faltering in the last two playoff games ( really we got lucky a dropped pass let us beat the ravens. If we didn’t score in reg , we have never won in ot , so a defensive stand would have been required and that was very unlikely). , 
 

Our d has been our downfall every year , so run back that o , which was beginning to be figured out , let alone give def coordinators an off season to combat “everybody eats”   You have Josh and cook with a breakout season and we saw how not having at least one other threatening star talent was stopped by KC once again.  The team we haven’t beaten in 4 tries in the playoffs ( because we gave up 32points this year) , literally got 6 points till garbage time against a legit d. They were destroyed by a good front 4 forcing errors , and they were never in the game. So run back that o all you want ( it needs dynamic talent in the wr position), but if that d isn’t drastically improved it will be the same as it always has;   D WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS, always does , and despite a defensive HC, this has been a wasted 8 years with the D ALWAYS BEING THE SUBSTANDARD PERFORMERS at crunch time , wasting away vital years of a superstar qb ( even an MVP OFFENSIVE SEASON DIDNT ALLOW THE BILLS TO SNIFF THE SUPERBOWL).  
 

     Not saying it wasn’t a good offensive production year for the bills , but that is proof above all else , it doesn’t matter how you score as many teams can score.  It’s about stopping the run, controlling the line , pressuring the qb AND SACKING HIm,and that is the proven formula to a Lombardi.  The only exception I remember was the greatest show on turf , but the had HOF qb, rb, and wr and their d still made a critical stop. 
 

Don’t forget to get your merch/ gear celebrating leading the NFL in points!  ( you’re not on the staff or a family member, are you?  JK !😀✌️

You literally just argued against yourself here.  Is the problem o or d?

[T master]

The Eagles proved that it all begins with pressure from the front 4 which is what we need more of, guys like Phillips in his prime are the type of players they need to get even in his limited role this year Phillips show'd up getting pressure but he is only a depth player now i think but i hope he does come back even if they wait till later in the year like they did this season he's a Bills type of player !! 

 

Mack Hollins is another Bills type player that i sure hope they can bring back, when he is on the field he brings that extra juice that everyone else feeds off of and Josh has developed a great chemistry with him in the passing game .

 

I think he knows when all else fails he can go to Mack and he'll be there for him plus he gives it in blocking too !! Ultimate team player ...

[DrPJax]

9 hours ago, CoudyBills said:

You literally just argued against yourself here.  Is the problem o or d?

It’s both , but d has been a very obvious reason for playoff losses.   Both o and d lack true impact talent ( obviously not relative to Allen  or cook. ).      Two things can be true at the same time.    Try looking at the big picture and 8 years of essentially a roster that has just never progressed.
 

     Is it Beane , Mcd, prob both really. My main thought is sooner than you think the great Bills mafia and great Buffalo community may be facing a situation marked by wasting  a true superstar qbs best career years. It’s not a vacuum, 31 other teams also keep competing for players , free agents , and unfortunately this regime has dug a hole exacerbated given the miller injury really derailed things unpredictably, and it’s hard to argue the ultimate goal of a title has so far been mismanaged.  Can you honestly say just reaching two afc championships is a success after , giving all due credit, nailing landing a generational talent at the most important position on the football field ?  It’s an entertaining product and certainly not a train wreck like here in Jacksonville, yet other franchises have reached that goal in shorter time frames and with less talented QBs.
 

      I’m very happy for Allen getting the MVP as I think he is truly a class act ( his work with the children’s hospital is one example of great character) , but ultimately this regime SO FAR has failed him and he has always stated his goal is to win a SB , not collect individual awards.  As a fan, the mvp award doesn’t really replace a missing Lombardi   Hopefully the title will come , but I have seen this franchise never quite live up fully to its potential, and I’m losing faith THIS staff can fix its issues in the next offseason.  Great people , but when the Eagles and Chiefs have made multiple super bowls in Allen’s era , I think it’s fair to question this staff.  
      The d has been the main weak point ( ppg allowed backs this up) , yet looking at the talent around Allen , and a history of the O ultimately coming up short ( failed drives when game was on the line) in the last two playoffs , it does raise doubts. Check out the last two episodes of the Shout podcast with Parino , and you’ll hear outside observers say the OC seemed to be limited by the talent ( specifically at wr, which is crazy with a great qb).  They also raise the D’s shortcomings   Time will tell as the clocks ticking quickly on ALLENS career. Buffalo is a great community and helped bring about a new stadium.  0 SB titles , no appearances yet with ALLEN, just makes me wonder if it’s time to rethink things. , not by firing Mcd , but he may need a better, more experienced dc who he will accept ideas from. as an example. It’s a result oriented business. Best wishes during the off season!😊✌️

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

On 2/12/2025 at 10:21 AM, Kirby Jackson said:

Personally, I wouldn’t consider re-signing Groot at anything over about $14M. My guess is that he is in the $20M range. You just can’t pay role players, top of the market prices. That’s what they did with Knox and Oliver. Groot is a great trade chip this offseason. He is a pretty good player that is 12 months from being a pretty terrible contract for someone. 

Then you have another hole to fill unfortunately.

[Kirby Jackson]

7 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

Then you have another hole to fill unfortunately.

I’m assuming that Garrett or Crosby or Mack starts in that spot. You fill the gaps behind them with Solomon, Smoot and guys like that. You can’t pay $20M for a guy that’s pretty good. You only pay top dollar for stars. Between the draft and FA you fill out the role players, other starters and depth. 

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

7 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m assuming that Garrett or Crosby or Mack starts in that spot. You fill the gaps behind them with Solomon, Smoot and guys like that. You can’t pay $20M for a guy that’s pretty good. You only pay top dollar for stars. Between the draft and FA you fill out the role players, other starters and depth. 

I mean that would be ideal but there is no guarantee any of them come here. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 2/10/2025 at 8:12 PM, Steptide said:

It's the defense losing us championships. No shocker, but they have to do something

 

 

Defense was decent. Held 6 teams to 10 points last season. That also affords the offense many more drives to score. The defense did bad  against some high scoring offenses, but also stopped some of them as well. Actually, they did very well in the playoffs minus Kansas City. The Bills need to learn how to stop the Chiefs. I’m not sure how they will do that, but that’s been the problem and will be the problem until they can crack that code. Personally, I think they need an elite pass rusher and elite safety. Maybe Bishop will develop into that, but we pretty much know what we have in Rousseau and AJE. They need to land (at least) one of those 2 positions. Damar Hamlin is excellent depth. He’s made huge strides and I’m not taking anything away from him. He overcame a horrific injury scare, put his head down, and didn’t let it scare him in the future. He’s an inspiration to all. I just think he’s maxed out. 

Edited February 13 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[OldNMBillsFan]

It's not like the D is in shambles since 2019 like some of you are making it out to be. They just suck against the Chiefs and in the playoffs. Since 2019 the D has been solid as far as points allowed per game. 

2019 #2 in league, allowing 16.2 Points Per Game.

2020 #16 in league, allowing 23.4 Points Per Game.

2021 #1 in league, allowing 17 Points Per Game.

2022 #2 in league, allowing 17.9 Points Per Game.

2023 #3 in league, allowing 18.3 Points Per Game.

2024 #11 in league, allowing 21.6 Points Per Game.

I think having 4 seasons in the last 6, amongst the top 3 defenses in the league is pretty darn good. But it is perplexing on why they allow KC to score over 30 points on them every time they meet in the playoffs.

Since 2019 the Bills have played 9 playoff games that were not against KC, allowing only 19.2 points per game and having a record of 7-2.

Since 2019 the Bills have played 4 playoff games against KC allowing a whopping 35 Points per game and an 0-4 record.

That just seems strange to me. Does Reid have a spy in the locker room and only uses him in the playoffs? Is McDermott too predictable against his old teacher? Or is the old rumor about the Ralph being built on an ancient Indian burial ground true and the Chiefs will always get the best of us in the playoffs?

Von Miller is a disappointment, Bean swung at the fence and missed. That along with some key injuries have hurt the D.

Changes do need to be made, but IMO they are not far off from getting back in the top 3, as long as Milano can stay healthy. 

As always...Go Bills!!!!

[Alphadawg7]

On 2/10/2025 at 6:40 PM, SoonerBillsFan said:

I still want a guy who can stretch the field. Even McDermott mentioned this.

 

Make no mistake about it, its what the offense needs and the staff and FO know it and will get someone in that role whether its a trade, FA, or draft.  I am 100% confident in that.  

 

Outside of that, dump the rest of our resources into the defense.  Unless Cook gets traded, then we need to add drafting a RB in this class to the list, and its a good draft to do so.  

[Alphadawg7]

41 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Defense was decent. Held 6 teams to 10 points last season. That also affords the offense many more drives to score. The defense did bad  against some high scoring offenses, but also stopped some of them as well. Actually, they did very well in the playoffs minus Kansas City. The Bills need to learn how to stop the Chiefs. I’m not sure how they will do that, but that’s been the problem and will be the problem until they can crack that code. Personally, I think they need an elite pass rusher and elite safety. 

 

The answer to the Chiefs is being able to disrupt their passing game with your front 4.  Bills have gotten dominated at the LOS against the Chiefs.  Meanwhile, Bucs, Bengals, and Eagles (the last 3 teams, and only 3 teams, to beat the Chiefs in the playoffs the last 6 seasons) have dominated the Chiefs with their guys up front without having to bring all the extra pressure.  

 

We need an impact player on the edge and we need beef in the middle so guys like Oliver can be at their best and penetrate while someone next to him takes on double teams.  This is a great offseason to address both...2 elite DE's could be available via trade at a time we can afford to go get one both in trade compensation and our cap...and the draft is a good draft to bolster our DL and get some size.  

 

With where this team is (which is a team that had a SB birth stolen by the refs when they flipped the game stealing 2 first downs from us on the same series of downs against KC), with almost all the most important players expected to return or returning, and with lots of extra draft capital...it will almost be failure to not get Crosby or Garret if they are indeed traded to someone.  We absolutely need to be the highest bidder in one of those cases.  

 

And quite frankly, even if we trade for one of them, we should absolutely throw an additional trade at Sea and see if they bite on DK.  This was already a SB ready team...adding those two would be huge and could make the difference between another 2 seed and the all important 1 seed now that they took the 2 seed bye away with the playoff expansion.  

[Matt_In_NH]

We need 10 more WR's, dont let anyone tell you different

[The Jokeman]

43 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

The answer to the Chiefs is being able to disrupt their passing game with your front 4.  Bills have gotten dominated at the LOS against the Chiefs.  Meanwhile, Bucs, Bengals, and Eagles (the last 3 teams, and only 3 teams, to beat the Chiefs in the playoffs the last 6 seasons) have dominated the Chiefs with their guys up front without having to bring all the extra pressure.  

 

We need an impact player on the edge and we need beef in the middle so guys like Oliver can be at their best and penetrate while someone next to him takes on double teams.  This is a great offseason to address both...2 elite DE's could be available via trade at a time we can afford to go get one both in trade compensation and our cap...and the draft is a good draft to bolster our DL and get some size.  

 

With where this team is (which is a team that had a SB birth stolen by the refs when they flipped the game stealing 2 first downs from us on the same series of downs against KC), with almost all the most important players expected to return or returning, and with lots of extra draft capital...it will almost be failure to not get Crosby or Garret if they are indeed traded to someone.  We absolutely need to be the highest bidder in one of those cases.  

 

And quite frankly, even if we trade for one of them, we should absolutely throw an additional trade at Sea and see if they bite on DK.  This was already a SB ready team...adding those two would be huge and could make the difference between another 2 seed and the all important 1 seed now that they took the 2 seed bye away with the playoff expansion.  

It sounds like Seattle going to part ways with Kearse due to age/salary and Smith-Nijgma stepping up, I can't see them losing Metcalf too in the same offseason. Toss in he's due $24 million this season which no easy task for the Bills to add. I've mentioned in other threads if the Bills are looking for a faster WR that can man the outside Darius Slayton could be a sneaky good signing. 

[Alphadawg7]

30 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

It sounds like Seattle going to part ways with Kearse due to age/salary and Smith-Nijgma stepping up, I can't see them losing Metcalf too in the same offseason. Toss in he's due $24 million this season which no easy task for the Bills to add. I've mentioned in other threads if the Bills are looking for a faster WR that can man the outside Darius Slayton could be a sneaky good signing. 

 

I agree that its no sure thing Seattle will move DK, but there is talk they could listen, so that is why I was just like throw an offer at them and see if they bite.  But I totally agree with you about Slayton, IMHO I think he makes the most sense on the FA market, would prefer him over bringing Cooper back.  This guy is better than I think a lot of people realize and would bring an element to this team it lacks.  

 

If we can get DK that would be great, but I think Slayton is the more realistic get and I would be good with him coming here and then still probably grabbing a guy in the draft.  

[Kirby Jackson]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

I mean that would be ideal but there is no guarantee any of them come here. 

True, my assumption (and goal) would be to trade Groot as a part of the package for one of them. If they don’t land either of them, try to sign Mack in FA and let Groot play out his 5th year option. I would not pay him this offseason regardless. If he blows up this season than his price goes up but it will also be easier to pay him $20+M if he’s a 14 sack guy.