The Eagles beat the Chiefs by doing the opposite of the Bills

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

That’s what this is all about. 

 

The Eagles pressed the Chiefs receivers. This gave Mahomes no quick outlet. He couldn’t throw those quick slant passes, because there was a guy jamming his receivers in their face. 

 

Sometimes they bailed into zone after the press, other times they stayed man. But the key was that the initial press TOOK AWAY Mahomes quick passes.

 

It made him hold the ball. And that gave their excellent d-line more time to get to him.

Yeah but that works when the DL is getting to the QB. Its the synergy of the matter.

 

Pressing with Elam while Greg Rousseau gets pancaked by Kareem Hunt is a great way to give up a 60 yard TD.

[Thrivefourfive]

11 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

That’s what this is all about. 

 

The Eagles pressed the Chiefs receivers. This gave Mahomes no quick outlet. He couldn’t throw those quick slant passes, because there was a guy jamming his receivers in their face. 

 

Sometimes they bailed into zone after the press, other times they stayed man. But the key was that the initial press TOOK AWAY Mahomes quick passes.

 

It made him hold the ball. And that gave their excellent d-line more time to get to him.

How about the Chiefs not being in a position to run the ball too.

 

I’ll leave this here.. George Allen’s epiphany that it’s easier to destroy something than to create it. Problem is McDermott is always trying to create a defense that’s not there. So Double Whammy!

 

Edited 13 hours ago by Thrivefourfive

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

25 minutes ago, billsfan714 said:

My Pittsburgh fan buddy said after we lost to the Chiefs---no pass rush at all.   Its so obvious whats wrong.

he’s one to talk! They have TJ watt, Hayward, and highsmith and got zero pressure on Mahomes during that Steelers/chiefs game. 

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Great stuff.  Thanks.

He wrong on most but though

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

OP: Bills plays soft man

 

MJS: No the Bills played man and blitzed a lot

 

OP: Huh? 

 

MJS: Bills blitzed a lot

 

OP: What does that have to do with soft man?

 

Do you even know what you’re saying?

He’s right… the Bills didn’t play soft zone coverage.  It was a lot of man in the first half.  Nearly 41% for the game which is way higher than usual 

[Sojourner]

1 hour ago, Thrivefourfive said:

If Beane can land Garrett, and use our top pick of 2025 on a safety IF said safety is also close to BPA… now that’ll be something. 
 

Beane is predictable. He’ll want to pair up Bishop to recreate Poyer/Hyde. Predictable is dumb and flawed sometimes. 

Honestly man, I’d rather they go get a safety in FA. There’s a few decent options. Most notably Javon Holland, Camryn Bynum and Trayvon Moehrig for what we need; Free. 

[Einstein]

11 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

He’s right… the Bills didn’t play soft zone coverage.  It was a lot of man in the first half.  Nearly 41% for the game which is way higher than usual 

Are any of you bothering to read what I actually wrote, or just making up stuff in your head to respond to?

I never said the Bills played soft-zone. Ever. 

Like... it didnt happen. You created a complete strawman.

[Thrivefourfive]

23 minutes ago, Sojourner said:

Honestly man, I’d rather they go get a safety in FA. There’s a few decent options. Most notably Javon Holland, Camryn Bynum and Trayvon Moehrig for what we need; Free. 

You’re right. I agree. Need some maturity back there with on-coming Bishop. Moving onto other positions. 
 

Acquire Garrett

Aquire FS

Move up in draft to pick DLineman

 

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Thrivefourfive

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

That’s what this is all about. 

 

The Eagles pressed the Chiefs receivers. This gave Mahomes no quick outlet. He couldn’t throw those quick slant passes, because there was a guy jamming his receivers in their face. 

 

Sometimes they bailed into zone after the press, other times they stayed man. But the key was that the initial press TOOK AWAY Mahomes quick passes.

 

It made him hold the ball. And that gave their excellent d-line more time to get to him.

 

The absolute worst thing the Bills defense did this year was too many blitzes with soft coverage behind. It was mind numbing how frequently our scheme was like pointing a big neon sign at a WR to make it nice and easy for the QB. All year I felt like there was very little rhyme or reason to some of our play designs. It felt like we were pulling concepts out of a hat. So I agree with the obvious point that Philly is much more talented than we are, but that doesn't excuse the coaching. It simply has to be better. The fact that the organization has already made a couple of philosophically-different hires tells you they know it too. I mean we've had four playoff matchups against KC and they've never punted more than twice against us.

[Sojourner]

43 minutes ago, Thrivefourfive said:

You’re right. I agree. Need some maturity back there with on-coming Bishop. Moving onto other positions. 
 

Acquire Garrett

Aquire FS

Move up in draft to pick DLineman

 

 

Well said. I think that will solve a lot of our problems. 

[eball]

Everyone's got their overly simplified "explanation" for everything...the truth is that there are many factors that go into each game and (thank god) just about everything the Eagles tried last night worked.

 

 

[Xwnyer]

best DL in world and great edge won't help when ya let receivers have a 15 yard cushion.   Mc D soft zone with safeties deep is only preventing the big bomb not stopping dink and dunk quick passes.   A receiver like worthy you hit often and hard.

[chris heff]

6 hours ago, Einstein said:

That was the most shocking part of last nights game. The Eagles essentially came out and said “everything the Bills did last week, we are going to do the opposite”.

 

Many fans are talking about the dominant Eagles d-line. They’re right. Talent plays a big part. BUT, part of the reason they looked SO dominant last night is because of the scheme the Eagles were running.

 

Instead of playing soft man, like we did a lot last week, the Eagles pressed on nearly every play (where in man or zone) This made the Chiefs old/slow (Kelce/Hopkins) and small (Hollywood/Worthy) have to fight for every yard from the second the ball was snapped.

 

This took away the quick passing game that Mahomes excelled with against the Bills. He HAD to hold the ball, because his receivers needed time to get open because they were being pressed at the line.

 

It was that combination of the Eagles talent on D-Line, AND the coaching scheme making Mahomes hold the ball. 

 

It was the completely opposite of what we ran. And it rattled Mahomes something fierce.

 

On the offensive side, they hit the flats REPEATEDLY. This made the Chiefs divert attention to the boundary and opened up the middle of the field for Hurts to run when the LB’s abandoned to cover the flats.

 

It was a beautiful coaching job. Vic Fangio deserves major kudos. I was happy when Miami jettisoned home - he was not the problem there.

 

 

You’re pretty smart

[finn]

4 hours ago, Thrivefourfive said:

I actually think the Bills D line wasn’t the problem vs KC. Mahomes released everything so quickly, and then the play was SO OPEN. Spotting them 8 yards every single play. 
 

Agree. It was drop back, pause a beat, throw. Last night, it was drop back, pause a beat, get sacked. 

 

The defensive line is getting the heat, but it's the linebackers and secondary that were the problem, either the players or the Babich/McDermott "Let them have eight yards, maybe they'll get a penalty or something, hopefully" defensive philosophy. 

 

I wonder if McDermott and Beane are on the same page. Beane seems to want overwhelming pressure on the QB, and McDermott wants bend don't break (or break, fine, but hope the offense will bail us out). 

[harmonkillebrew]

6 hours ago, finn said:

He learned what to do in 2021 when Tampa Bay did the same thing to KC. That's why he immediately drafted Rousseau and Basham and gave away the store for Von Miller. Knowing what to do and doing it are two different things. I know how to dunk a basketball but never have done it nor ever will. 

 

The Bills look pathetic against KC be a) the line can't get pressure; and b) McDermott likes to play soft. When will that change if it hasn't yet? 

It's true, we have invested major capital in the Dline to beat the Chiefs - Von, AJ, Groot, Boogie, Oliver a few years before - and here we are, back to the drawing board. Beane has had some big whiffs. 

[finn]

1 hour ago, harmonkillebrew said:

It's true, we have invested major capital in the Dline to beat the Chiefs - Von, AJ, Groot, Boogie, Oliver a few years before - and here we are, back to the drawing board. Beane has had some big whiffs. 

Want to play the hindsight game?

 

2024: Round 2: Beane picked Coleman over Lad McConkey, Cooper DeJean, and Kamari Lassiter (and Worthy, of course)

2023: Round 1: Moved up for Kincaid instead of down for Joey Porter, Sam LaPorta,  Rashee Rice (all in the second round), and Tank Dell (third round).

2022: Round 1: After KC jumped over us for McDuffie, Beane moved up for Elam instead of down for George Pickens and others. 

 

I have to stop. Too depressing.  

 

[TH3]

7 hours ago, klos63 said:

They have a ton more talent on defense than the Bills. That helps.

Less words…better analysis

[MasterStrategist]

@Einstein and all.

 

The OP's point is meaningless.  

 

It's like having a great/fast defense in basketball that can run a full court press and disrupt an offense. Then say, well why didn't Team B do that against them too.

 

It's clear as day to every NFL coach how to beat KCs offense.  A disruptive front 4 and strong secondary.  It's an easy concept.  If you have 1 and not the other, great QBs and coaches (like Mahomes/Reid) will always find ways to exploit it. 

 

Pass rush and coverage need to work in tandem - similar to a QB and his timing on routes with a WR.

 

Eagles have the luxury, because of stellar drafting, to have both a dominant front 4 and secondary.  Add in an all'pro in Baun at LB.

 

OP wants to say "it's the complete opposite of what Buffalo ran".  Well, we aren't Philly.  Philly mixed looks, but mostly ran cover 4/quarters coverage. Sounds familiar, what we ran with McD in past when our secondary was elite.

 

Bottom line, we shouldn't be debating "scheme".  This entire topic should be focused on talent and where we need to focus resources heading into 2025.  If it's not abundantly clear, dline and secondary need a makeover. 

 

I would have loved to have seen us try what Philly did last night against KC.  We would have been torched all night, because our front 4 gets ZERO pressure.  Mahomes is human when he feels pressure.  Problem is we don't have the juice up front, and our secondary was too slow to keep up with anyone. 

 

Again TALENT/execution, Vic isn't some mastermind....cover 4 has been around forever.  Seattle thrived mixing cover 4/cover 3 looks when they had a stud secondary, and a solid dline.

[Richard Noggin]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The reason I didn't have Mahomes as the all world talent he has become coming out was his feet. They were a mess at Texas Tech, Reid spent his rookie year essentially re-teaching him footwork and every now and again when he feels stress they fall apart again. 

 

He had a really bad habit of retreating in the pocket, and trying to escape out the backdoor, so to speak. He tried climbing the pocket on a number of occasions Sunday, with some success. But he also scampered up into the DTs collapsing and the DEs doubling back a bunch. He had happy feet and dropping eyes all day. 

 

*also, his throwing motion/release caught my eye again (more below)

 

9 hours ago, Thrivefourfive said:

May I? Bad old habits reappear when you’re not prepared, when you don’t start each training session revisiting solid foundational mechanics. Going to the driving range and spending a minute on grip, posture alignment..

 

The offense wasn’t good all season. Mahomes had a bad season all the way around. And then this happens in the SB. 
 

Has he not invested enough time in prep work before and during the season? Is he a busy guy? I don’t know much about him. 

 

To that point about preparation: that Mahomes release, especially on deeper throws, has become seriously elongated by the end of this season. He would really load up and rear back his upper body for deep throws. His elbow was dropping way too much, too often. Almost reverting back to a pitching off the mound wind-up, in a way. I see regression.

 

Totally correctable, no doubt. But he's played a TON of football the last 6/7 seasons, and has a ton of off-field pursuits (which might slow a little now). I don't know anything about his regimens and capacities for relentless self-criticism. I'll bet he gets a lot better next year as long as his offensive line improves. (I recall KC fixing the line after the TB Super Bowl loss, so there is precedent.)