It's the defensive line, stupid!

[Governor]

We need to stop pretending that players in our DL will be better with different players around them. Oliver is never going to be a great player. Just get them out. Enough already.

[JGMcD2]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

Bills need to start drafting elite players and stop worrying so much about scheme fit.  Sure that is important, but sometimes elite talent just makes it all moot.

See Elam, Kaiir. 

[Yobogoya!]

9 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Eagles traded up to get him and I don’t see us having done that.  Plus, if we didn’t go WR with that first pick, people would have lost their minds.  

 

Not me, I said all along go BPA and stockpile talent. I don't care where Beane finds it, he's just GOT to start finding it. (Not that he answers to me or anything, lol)

 

Taking Elam and Coleman to "fill needs" and ending up with players who can't contribute meaningful snaps is not how you spend your premium draft capital when you're in championship mode. 

 

We ended up trading for Cooper, anyway. Which we were always going to have to do unless Coleman exploded onto the scene with transcendent play, a very low probability outcome considering his pre-draft analysis. 

[stevewin]

Foxworth had a good line on Get Up this AM about Chiefs aura being impacted by this game "We started to get to a point where we thought of this team as magical and invincible - you know what beats magic?  Physicality." 

 

All the AFC teams will be looking at this game saying we should be doing that - we can do that too.

Edited 16 hours ago by stevewin

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

See Elam, Kaiir. 

 

IT's not like the Eagles haven't swung and missed, they just aren't afraid to keep doing it...like when they drafted WR Jalen Reagor the pick before Justin Jefferson.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

You can’t lay off the WRs and give them a free release. You have to let the QB hold it for an extra half second so your guys can get there. If the WRs are wide open on the snap you have no shot. Why this needed to be explained is incredible. I watched Elam backing up 9 yards off on the snap and you might as well just pack up and go home. What is this coach thinking 

[CincyBillsFan]

17 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I’ve been thinking about DeJean for months now, but I don’t see how we would have gotten him unless we passed on Coleman.  DeJean was mocked to us with our first pick and we used 5 visits on him.  
 

Eagles traded up to get him and I don’t see us having done that.  Plus, if we didn’t go WR with that first pick, people would have lost their minds.  
 

All that being said, I wish we had found a way to get both. 

I believe that in the end Bishop is going to be a very good, 10 years starter at Safety for the Bills.  I suspect that if you put Bishop on the Eagles and DeJean on the Bills they would have had similar seasons.

 

 

[NewEra]

Pass rush was my biggest worry going into the season and it proved to be not good enough.  

[1962]

Our defense played well against certain teams and were overmatched against top quarterbacks. Why because the secondary is mediocre. Buffalo had one of the lowest rates of blitzes because the secondary can’t be counted on to play man coverage. We already have taken big swings at free agents, Von Miller, and traded first round picks for established players, Diggs, and are paying for it with limited a salary cap. 
Josh had a MVP year behind e superior offensive line with average wide receivers.

They need a superior secondary so blitzing is back on the table. How many times last year did you see the Bills stack the line then drop into coverage with the ball snap. If I wasn’t fooled I don’t think professional players and coaches were either. 
But I agree we a one technique defensive tackle.

[PromoTheRobot]

It's not like the Bills never address the D-line. They just don't hit, or in the case of Von Miller, get injured and become useless.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

6 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

You can’t lay off the WRs and give them a free release. You have to let the QB hold it for an extra half second so your guys can get there. If the WRs are wide open on the snap you have no shot. Why this needed to be explained is incredible. I watched Elam backing up 9 yards off on the snap and you might as well just pack up and go home. What is this coach thinking 

 

Exactly this.

 

D-Line doesn't matter when we have DBs in man coverage giving up 10+ yard cushions. Mahomes will shred that 100% of the time 

[TBBills Fan]

Myles Garrett. I don't care what Beane has to do

[FireChans]

39 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah the Eagles are STOUT in the middle of their DL.    That is the biggest difference.   Not the pass rush.   The Bills vulnerability in the middle often takes the starch out of their pass rush because inviting the run leads to the ends having to be more assignment sound.   And stout in the DL allows the LB's to make plays.   That's why Baun could become an NFL DPOY candidate.   Eagles also improved their secondary by going with 2 DB's early in the draft last year.  

 

But it just so happened in this game that the pass rush showed up for them and now fans who don't really follow the rest of the NFL that closely think they had a fearsome foursome of pass rushers on every down.   Not the case.   

I agree and don’t agree.

 

i agree this eagles front is not the 2015 Broncos. This wasn’t the culmination of a dominant season. 
 

But what I would say is this wasn’t the culmination of Howie’s strategy. He has poured picks and money into the DL for this kind of stage. That’s why he got guys like Carter and Davis high. 
 

If you played this game a hundred times, maybe the Eagles win with DL dominance like 10-20 times. But the Bills would win far less like that, imo. 

[MiracleAtRich1393]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

The Bills need DeWayne Carter and Javon Soloman to hit. 

 

LOL not happening

[MiracleAtRich1393]

Groot, #62, #108, #179, our 2026 & 2027 firsts for Cleveland's 2026 & 2027 2nds and Myles Garrett

 

Oliver, #30, next year's third for Crosby

 

Draft a 3T like Darius Alexander at #56

 

Draft a big ass space filler 1T at #131

 

Sign solid/unspectacular veteran 3T & 1T for mentorship.

 

take 2 corners & a safety with remainder of day 3 picks. DGAF what they do with anything else

[klos63]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

Watching the game last night made one thing abundantly clear: the Bills' defensive line has, thus far, been the primary factor preventing them from winning a Lombard in the McDermott/Allen era.

It's not just that the Eagles pressured Mahomes on over 50% of his dropbacks and gave him a career high in sacks. It's the WAY they did it. Straight four man rush with zone coverage behind it. Not a SINGLE blitz all game long. Of course, there's a little more to it than that. Vic Fangio is an elite defensive mind. But the principles were simple: Play disciplined zone coverage in the back seven, cause havoc with your front four. Don't blitz.

It should also be a FAMILIAR strategy. If Sean McDermott had his way, it's how the Bills defense would play every single game. It's the exact strategy that, in an ideal world, he would employ full time. The only problem is that the Bills don't have the defensive line that the Eagles have, so employing this strategy does not typically lead to the same results.

Yes, the Chiefs o-line was injured and bad this year. Nevertheless, in BOTH Mahomes-led Chiefs Super Bowl losses, the primary reason for their defeat was an ass kicking DL across from them, kicking their butts, down after down. 

We know the Bills have been sinking resources into the DL year after year, and without great results to show for it. We must resist falling into the "sunk cost fallacy" and saying "hey, we tried that, it didn't work, can't keep doing it". On the contrary, the Bills MUST keep doing anything and everything to build a great defensive line. The Eagles invested premium draft picks in their DL year after year after year, until it became what it is today. The Bills cannot give up. They need to keep swinging.

Going all the way back to the Giants defense beating the unstoppable Patriots in that Super Bowl, to the Bucs beating the Chiefs in the Super Bowl, and now to the Eagles absolutely shellacking them last night. The evidence is clear. You want to beat an elite, all time great QB and offensive mind? Build an ass-kicking defensive line.

The Bills need DeWayne Carter and Javon Soloman to hit. They need a fearsome 1T. They need to take a swing on a Garrett or a Crosby or a Sweat. But regardless of HOW they do it, one thing is clear: fixing the defensive line should be the Bills' top priority this offseason. 
 

For all that football has changed over the years,  you can't win consistently without great line play on both sides of the ball.  That's never changed.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I agree and don’t agree.

 

i agree this eagles front is not the 2015 Broncos. This wasn’t the culmination of a dominant season. 
 

But what I would say is this wasn’t the culmination of Howie’s strategy. He has poured picks and money into the DL for this kind of stage. That’s why he got guys like Carter and Davis high. 
 

If you played this game a hundred times, maybe the Eagles win with DL dominance like 10-20 times. But the Bills would win far less like that, imo. 

 

 

I don't really get your point though.   Both teams have thrown a lot of assets at the DL.

 

The big difference is that the Eagles got incredibly lucky that Jalen Carter was there at pick 13.  That makes everything else work.

 

The next biggest difference is probably that they invested more in day 3 DL than the Bills have.   The Bills don't have a Milton Williams or Sweat.

 

 But Greg Rousseau is better than the Eagles DE's.  Every NFL personnel person would agree.  Oliver at #8 overall is a better player and pick than Jordan Davis at #9 overall.   In fact, if Davis were in the middle without Carter that might be a point of criticism for Howie.

 

Roseman has also done better with FA DL with guys like Hargrave and Reddick(though Bryce Huff looks like a big fail and that is the main reason why their pass rush was underwhelming this season).  

 

So Howie has been better at his choices on the DL but they've also used first round picks up on 3 WR(Reagor, Smith, Brown) since 2020 and took a CB last year etc..   It's not like all they do is use premium assets on the DL and the Bills just haven't tried hard enough or are wasting picks on different positions.   Their strategies are not that dissimilar.   

 

 

[T.E.]

This current regime had no clue how to evaluate talent. They lucked into Allen, and that's it. I guarantee they wanted Darnold in that draft, too.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I don't really get your point though.   Both teams have thrown a lot of assets at the DL.

 

The big difference is that the Eagles got incredibly lucky that Jalen Carter was there at pick 13.  That makes everything else work.

 

The next biggest difference is probably that they invested more in day 3 DL than the Bills have.   The Bills don't have a Milton Williams or Sweat.

 

 But Greg Rousseau is better than the Eagles DE's.  Every NFL personnel person would agree.  Oliver at #8 overall is a better player and pick than Jordan Davis at #9 overall.   In fact, if Davis were in the middle without Carter that might be a point of criticism for Howie.

 

Roseman has also done better with FA DL with guys like Hargrave and Reddick(though Bryce Huff looks like a big fail and that is the main reason why their pass rush was underwhelming this season).  

 

So Howie has been better at his choices on the DL but they've also used first round picks up on 3 WR(Reagor, Smith, Brown) since 2020 and took a CB last year etc..   It's not like all they do is use premium assets on the DL and the Bills just haven't tried hard enough or are wasting picks on different positions.   Their strategies are not that dissimilar.   

 

 

I guess I’m being biased, but I think the Eagles have players with that extra gear in the tank that the Bills don’t have.

 

I can’t see Ed and Greg both coming out and being dominant from start to finish against KC. Ever. I just can’t. 
 

A guy like Jalen Carter had a ceiling that Ed and Greg don’t have. 

[klos63]

2 minutes ago, T.E. said:

This current regime had no clue how to evaluate talent. They lucked into Allen, and that's it. I guarantee they wanted Darnold in that draft, too.

They actually made several moves to get into the position to draft him. 

That's not lucking into anything,  it was very calculated.