It's the defensive line, stupid!

[Logic]

Watching the game last night made one thing abundantly clear: the Bills' defensive line has, thus far, been the primary factor preventing them from winning a Lombard in the McDermott/Allen era.

It's not just that the Eagles pressured Mahomes on over 50% of his dropbacks and gave him a career high in sacks. It's the WAY they did it. Straight four man rush with zone coverage behind it. Not a SINGLE blitz all game long. Of course, there's a little more to it than that. Vic Fangio is an elite defensive mind. But the principles were simple: Play disciplined zone coverage in the back seven, cause havoc with your front four. Don't blitz.

It should also be a FAMILIAR strategy. If Sean McDermott had his way, it's how the Bills defense would play every single game. It's the exact strategy that, in an ideal world, he would employ full time. The only problem is that the Bills don't have the defensive line that the Eagles have, so employing this strategy does not typically lead to the same results.

Yes, the Chiefs o-line was injured and bad this year. Nevertheless, in BOTH Mahomes-led Chiefs Super Bowl losses, the primary reason for their defeat was an ass kicking DL across from them, kicking their butts, down after down. 

We know the Bills have been sinking resources into the DL year after year, and without great results to show for it. We must resist falling into the "sunk cost fallacy" and saying "hey, we tried that, it didn't work, can't keep doing it". On the contrary, the Bills MUST keep doing anything and everything to build a great defensive line. The Eagles invested premium draft picks in their DL year after year after year, until it became what it is today. The Bills cannot give up. They need to keep swinging.

Going all the way back to the Giants defense beating the unstoppable Patriots in that Super Bowl, to the Bucs beating the Chiefs in the Super Bowl, and now to the Eagles absolutely shellacking them last night. The evidence is clear. You want to beat an elite, all time great QB and offensive mind? Build an ass-kicking defensive line.

The Bills need DeWayne Carter and Javon Soloman to hit. They need a fearsome 1T. They need to take a swing on a Garrett or a Crosby or a Sweat. But regardless of HOW they do it, one thing is clear: fixing the defensive line should be the Bills' top priority this offseason. 
 

Edited 10 hours ago by Logic

[Brand J]

Just wrote this in another thread:

 

Quote

Looking at Sweat’s career stats versus Rousseau, they’re basically clones of each other. If Sweat is valued at $18M/yr, while Rousseau is valued at $25M/yr (both spotrac), I think it’s obvious who our Robin should be on the DL while we go get Batman.

 

[Brian Higgins hair]

Without QUESTION!

[DeltaDigital]

Passing on dejean trading down for coleman will = Whiter over ngata. Dudes gonna have a gangster career and 0 Could have been had in the 4th along with troy frankin. 

AJ is fairly useless, 50 at times looks like a baby deer that cant find his footing. Imagine oliver doesnt disappear for months at a time, and what happened to Daquon Jones? ... our roster is just not championship caliber outside 17. and that responsibility lies directly with Brandon Beane. 

Enough of this high motor BS. BPA. ALWAYS. 

[Yobogoya!]

I don't think you'll get much disagreement about the premise, but it's worth pointing out that the Eagles have impact players at ALL three levels of defense, not just DL. 

 

They put a premium on talent and have found difference makers on the line, in the secondary, and in between. If we even swapped just the last two drafts between the Bills and Eagles, our defense would look night and day vs. what we have and what they have. 

[Big Turk]

Bills need to start drafting elite players and stop worrying so much about scheme fit.  Sure that is important, but sometimes elite talent just makes it all moot.

[djp14150]

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

Watching the game last night made one thing abundantly clear: the Bills' defensive line has, thus far, been the primary factor preventing them from winning a Lombard in the McDermott/Allen era.

It's not just that the Eagles pressured Mahomes on over 50% of his dropbacks and gave him a career high in sacks. It's the WAY they did it. Straight four man rush with zone coverage behind it. Not a SINGLE blitz all game long. Of course, there's a little more to it than that. Vic Fangio is an elite defensive mind. But the principles were simple: Play disciplined zone coverage in the back seven, cause havoc with your front four. Don't blitz.

It should also be a FAMILIAR strategy. If Sean McDermott had his way, it's how the Bills defense would play every single game. It's the exact strategy that, in an ideal world, he would employ full time. The only problem is that the Bills don't have the defensive line that the Eagles have, so employing this strategy does not typically lead to the same results.

Yes, the Chiefs o-line was injured and bad this year. Nevertheless, in BOTH Mahomes-led Chiefs Super Bowl losses, the primary reason for their defeat was an ass kicking DL across from them, kicking their butts, down after down. 

We know the Bills have been sinking resources into the DL year after year, and without great results to show for it. We must resist falling into the "sunk cost fallacy" and saying "hey, we tried that, it didn't work, can't keep doing it". On the contrary, the Bills MUST keep doing anything and everything to build a great defensive line. The Eagles invested premium draft picks in their DL year after year after year, until it became what it is today. The Bills cannot give up. They need to keep swinging.

Going all the way back to the Giants defense beating the unstoppable Patriots in that Super Bowl, to the Bucs beating the Chiefs in the Super Bowl, and now to the Eagles absolutely shellacking them last night. The evidence is clear. You want to beat an elite, all time great QB and offensive mind? Build an ass-kicking defensive line.

The Bills need DeWayne Carter and Javon Soloman to hit. They need a fearsome 1T. They need to take a swing on a Garrett or a Crosby or a Sweat. But regardless of HOW they do it, one thing is clear: fixing the defensive line should be the Bills' top priority this offseason. 
 

 

yrs they got pressure by their 4 DL….but other things you are missing….

 

1. The eagles limited Kermit’s first/ hot receiver which gave time for the QB pressure

2. Kermit was off in his throwing

3. they controlled/ limited the run game

 

their QB rush contained him first limiting his scrambling outside thrn squeezing the pocket.  Bills spread out the line creating holes and gave Mahomes scramble options 

[juno999]

The Dline has been the issue for a number of years.  Not enough QB pressures, sacks, not good enough against the run.  Pretty much every free agent signee has been overpaid for their production and pretty much every DL draftee has been over drafted.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

Until last night my top priority was a Z receiver. But watching Mahomes get pinballed cemented to me the only way to beat him...physically beating him. 

 

As an academic exercise, think of every position group. Which of those aren't league average or better?

 

WR, but Hollins and/or Cooper could likely be had reasonably.

 

Secondary? Ingram looked good in limited time and Beane has a supernatural ability to get late round gems. Rapp outperformed expectations, you have Bishop and Lewis.

 

What would fall apart if all assets went to D-line? I'm struggling to think of a catastrophy 

[Repulsif]

26 minutes ago, djp14150 said:

 

yrs they got pressure by their 4 DL….but other things you are missing….

 

1. The eagles limited Kermit’s first/ hot receiver which gave time for the QB pressure

I was coming to write this.

The second part is important for a success 

Edited 10 hours ago by Repulsif

[harmonkillebrew]

That Dline was amazing, but they also have good DBs and an all-world DC.

 

But it shows the Bills need to overhaul the entire D.  New DT and DE, new S and CB. and I think pray Babbich keeps growing in his role

[FireChans]

19 minutes ago, Logic said:

Watching the game last night made one thing abundantly clear: the Bills' defensive line has, thus far, been the primary factor preventing them from winning a Lombard in the McDermott/Allen era.

It's not just that the Eagles pressured Mahomes on over 50% of his dropbacks and gave him a career high in sacks. It's the WAY they did it. Straight four man rush with zone coverage behind it. Not a SINGLE blitz all game long. Of course, there's a little more to it than that. Vic Fangio is an elite defensive mind. But the principles were simple: Play disciplined zone coverage in the back seven, cause havoc with your front four. Don't blitz.

It should also be a FAMILIAR strategy. If Sean McDermott had his way, it's how the Bills defense would play every single game. It's the exact strategy that, in an ideal world, he would employ full time. The only problem is that the Bills don't have the defensive line that the Eagles have, so employing this strategy does not typically lead to the same results.

Yes, the Chiefs o-line was injured and bad this year. Nevertheless, in BOTH Mahomes-led Chiefs Super Bowl losses, the primary reason for their defeat was an ass kicking DL across from them, kicking their butts, down after down. 

We know the Bills have been sinking resources into the DL year after year, and without great results to show for it. We must resist falling into the "sunk cost fallacy" and saying "hey, we tried that, it didn't work, can't keep doing it". On the contrary, the Bills MUST keep doing anything and everything to build a great defensive line. The Eagles invested premium draft picks in their DL year after year after year, until it became what it is today. The Bills cannot give up. They need to keep swinging.

Going all the way back to the Giants defense beating the unstoppable Patriots in that Super Bowl, to the Bucs beating the Chiefs in the Super Bowl, and now to the Eagles absolutely shellacking them last night. The evidence is clear. You want to beat an elite, all time great QB and offensive mind? Build an ass-kicking defensive line.

The Bills need DeWayne Carter and Javon Soloman to hit. They need a fearsome 1T. They need to take a swing on a Garrett or a Crosby or a Sweat. But regardless of HOW they do it, one thing is clear: fixing the defensive line should be the Bills' top priority this offseason. 
 

You are right that dominant DL have won. They are capable of dominating elite offenses.

 

It's not the only way to win.

 

I mean, it's not like Mahomes has won behind dominant DL multiple times. He honestly hasn't. Chris Jones is great, but Mahomes has 3 rings without having a defense play like the Eagles played last night.

 

Would the Bills win a SB easily with Josh and the 2024 Eagles defense or the 2015 Broncos defense?  Of course. So would most all-time great QB's. 

 

Is the reason they HAVEN'T?  I don't think so. Most teams that win SB's do it without dominant defensive lines.  Which is why these teams come around every 5 years at most.

[BillsPride12]

15 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

I don't think you'll get much disagreement about the premise, but it's worth pointing out that the Eagles have impact players at ALL three levels of defense, not just DL. 

 

They put a premium on talent and have found difference makers on the line, in the secondary, and in between. If we even swapped just the last two drafts between the Bills and Eagles, our defense would look night and day vs. what we have and what they have. 

 

14 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Bills need to start drafting elite players and stop worrying so much about scheme fit.  Sure that is important, but sometimes elite talent just makes it all moot.

It's starting to become a polarizing conversation amongst Bills fans about the job Brandon Beane has done.  When Bills fans critique some of Beane's drafts it's not because we are ungrateful but when you see the drafting Howie Roseman has done with Philly that is what it takes to build a championship team.  I like Beane overall and am grateful for changing around the culture here in Buffalo but he needs to step it up and hit on more difference makers if we are going to take that next step.

[PoundingDog]

Watch all the highlights of last night's game, you can't help but notice Phily got after Mahomes with just 4, generally got him off the spot within 2 seconds and CONTAINED him as well. They blitzed Mahomes 0 times. No spy (or the spy was way back taking on other responsibilities as well). 

 

That is hard to accomplish, all game long I might add. The success of the D-Line allowed Phily's secondary to be aggressive. The Chiefs had been going with a quick passing game the last few games with great success because teams, like the Bills, had been playing not to let them to beat us deep. But Phily pretty much said you don't have time to go deep. 

Edited 9 hours ago by PoundingDog

[transplantbillsfan]

I think anyone watching the Chiefs in the playoffs understands this. If Houston had a pulse on offense they would have won.

 

Myles Garrett please.

Edited 4 hours ago by transplantbillsfan

[TheyCallMeAndy]

100% agreed.

 

We have a few Robins (Groot and Ed) and then a bunch of GCPD officers (AJ, Von, Jones). 

 

That’s all fine and dandy, but when the big bad guy comes to town, you need the freaking Batman. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Beane needs to do whatever it takes to acquire Garrett or Crosby. A stud DE to pair with Rousseau would transform this defense. Next, pair Oliver with another attacking DT who can hold their own against the run. Eagles had 6 sacks without blitzing, that was 100% the absolute key to their win. Having 7 guys in coverage while a QB is running for his life is a defensive cheat code, but much easier said than done. We saw the Giants do it to Brady and the Eagles did it to Kermit the Fraud last night. If that doesn’t light a fire under Beane’s ass then IDK what will. We have all these GOOD pass rushers, but none of them are great. We pick too late in the draft so the next best option is trade or Free Agency.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Yeah the Eagles want a better DL too.  

 

They had just 41 sacks and 30 hurries on the season.

 

Versus the Bills much maligned DL which had 39 sacks and 62 hurries.  

 

Josh Sweat and Milton Williams.....both pending free agents coming off statistically underwhelming seasons.........each just had their best games of the season in their last game and that's all that most non-Eagles fans saw of them this year.    Remember they had a historically great pass rush coming into their last SB versus the Chiefs and got nada.   Good OL beat good DL on neutral field.  

 

A lot of it comes down to playing well in the last game.    Just saying.   Eagles weren't loving their pass rush this season either.

[Yobogoya!]

18 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Yeah the Eagles want a better DL too.  

 

They had just 41 sacks and 30 hurries on the season.

 

Versus the Bills much maligned DL which had 39 sacks and 62 hurries.  

 

Josh Sweat and Milton Williams.....both pending free agents coming off statistically underwhelming seasons.........each just had their best games of the season in their last game and that's all that most non-Eagles fans saw of them this year.    Remember they had a historically great pass rush coming into their last SB versus the Chiefs and got nada.   Good OL beat good DL on neutral field.  

 

A lot of it comes down to playing well in the last game.    Just saying.   Eagles weren't loving their pass rush this season either.

 

You make a fair point that there's always room to improve, but the Eagles' D was #2 in points allowed per game and #1 in yards. 

 

Sacks numbers alone don't tell the whole story, and not for nothing but those numbers you posted show more than DOUBLE the number of hurries compared to ours. (reading is hard )

 

I think it's fair to say we have a lot more room to improve compared to them. 

Edited 9 hours ago by Yobogoya!

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Yeah the Eagles want a better DL too.  

 

They had just 41 sacks and 30 hurries on the season.

 

Versus the Bills much maligned DL which had 39 sacks and 62 hurries.  

 

Josh Sweat and Milton Williams.....both pending free agents coming off statistically underwhelming seasons.........each just had their best games of the season in their last game and that's all that most non-Eagles fans saw of them this year.    Remember they had a historically great pass rush coming into their last SB versus the Chiefs and got nada.   Good OL beat good DL on neutral field.  

 

A lot of it comes down to playing well in the last game.    Just saying.   Eagles weren't loving their pass rush this season either.

This, too.

 

in our biggest game, Greg Rousseau was getting pancaked by Kareem Hunt while last night, Josh Sweat was abusing the right side of the line.