Allen wins MVP

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, RiotAct said:

ugh, would be a lot better without the “17”

 

Agree.  I like "Destiny is Calling Me" with JA diving for the pylon though.

[Success]

I don't get some of the vitriolic reaction from people who thought Lamar should have won.

 

It's not a stats award.  In reality, Lamar deserved it just as much as Josh - they both had amazing seasons.  It was a coin flip, and even though it's not supposed to matter, I think voters probably considered the idea that Lamar would have 3 MVP's and Josh none, when they're both pretty amazing and have both been great for the league.

 

And this shouldn't matter either, but it's noteworthy - the Bills beat the Ravens in the playoffs, largely because Josh played an efficient game, and Lamar turned the ball over.

 

If Lamar won, I would have been disappointed, but would hardly have been able to say it was some sort of injustice.  I really don't get why some fans are so up in arms about this.

 

[Logic]

7 minutes ago, Success said:

I don't get some of the vitriolic reaction from people who thought Lamar should have won.

 

It's not a stats award.  In reality, Lamar deserved it just as much as Josh - they both had amazing seasons.  It was a coin flip, and even though it's not supposed to matter, I think voters probably considered the idea that Lamar would have 3 MVP's and Josh none, when they're both pretty amazing and have both been great for the league.

 

And this shouldn't matter either, but it's noteworthy - the Bills beat the Ravens in the playoffs, largely because Josh played an efficient game, and Lamar turned the ball over.

 

If Lamar won, I would have been disappointed, but would hardly have been able to say it was some sort of injustice.  I really don't get why some fans are so up in arms about this.

 

Put simply, both guys had great (and legitimate cases), so any reasonable person should be able to say "both guys deserved it. It was a close race. Congrats to whoever wins". You can root for your favorite guy or have a stance on who should win, sure, but being reasonable means recognizing that they BOTH had all-world seasons, and either of them winning would make sense for a variety of reasons.

On the other hand, if you are NOT capable of recognizing the greatness (and deservingness) of the other guy, and if the only way you can prop up your preferred candidate is by tearing down the other guy and pretending like he didn't have a good case, then, well...I don't think particularly highly of your maturity level, intellect, or ability to rationally recognize and process nuance.

Unfortunately, there seem to be far too few of the former, and far too many of the latter. Or at least, those in the latter camp seem to be much more loudly vocal and forceful in the espousing of their opinion.

A real shame.

[Doc Brown]

8 minutes ago, Success said:

I don't get some of the vitriolic reaction from people who thought Lamar should have won.

 

It's not a stats award.  In reality, Lamar deserved it just as much as Josh - they both had amazing seasons.  It was a coin flip, and even though it's not supposed to matter, I think voters probably considered the idea that Lamar would have 3 MVP's and Josh none, when they're both pretty amazing and have both been great for the league.

 

And this shouldn't matter either, but it's noteworthy - the Bills beat the Ravens in the playoffs, largely because Josh played an efficient game, and Lamar turned the ball over.

 

If Lamar won, I would have been disappointed, but would hardly have been able to say it was some sort of injustice.  I really don't get why some fans are so up in arms about this.

 

Ravens fans and Bills fans have been defending their QB from all the critics since they were drafted because they were such polarizing prospects.  They're also such great leaders that teammates and fans will go to war for them (theoretically speaking).  Any slight or perceived injustice will lead fans to aggressively defend their guy. 

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

Put simply, both guys had great (and legitimate cases), so any reasonable person should be able to say "both guys deserved it. It was a close race. Congrats to whoever wins". You can root for your favorite guy or have a stance on who should win, sure, but being reasonable means recognizing that they BOTH had all-world seasons, and either of them winning would make sense for a variety of reasons.

On the other hand, if you are NOT capable of recognizing the greatness (and deservingness) of the other guy, and if the only way you can prop up your preferred candidate is by tearing down the other guy and pretending like he didn't have a good case, then, well...I don't think particularly highly of your maturity level, intellect, or ability to rationally recognize and process nuance.

Unfortunately, there seem to be far too few of the former, and far too many of the latter. Or at least, those in the latter camp seem to be much more loudly vocal and forceful in the espousing of their opinion.

A real shame.

I’m not sure you will have any answers either , but why is this the case though  ? I don’t see this level of hate for anyone else in the NFL…even for the grubs who’s actions deserve it ..( Apart from D Watson) …

 

A lot of the click bait media probably don’t believe what they write or say …but they seem to have a large audience that they are catering for who seem willing to lap it up..

 

JA has a life story that should be celebrated and he is one of the most talented players I have seen in my decades of watching the game …. so why the hate ? It’s not just salty Ravens fans either by the way before anyone points to this …

[strive_for_five_guy]

28 minutes ago, Success said:

I don't get some of the vitriolic reaction from people who thought Lamar should have won.

 

It's not a stats award.  In reality, Lamar deserved it just as much as Josh - they both had amazing seasons.  It was a coin flip, and even though it's not supposed to matter, I think voters probably considered the idea that Lamar would have 3 MVP's and Josh none, when they're both pretty amazing and have both been great for the league.

 

And this shouldn't matter either, but it's noteworthy - the Bills beat the Ravens in the playoffs, largely because Josh played an efficient game, and Lamar turned the ball over.

 

If Lamar won, I would have been disappointed, but would hardly have been able to say it was some sort of injustice.  I really don't get why some fans are so up in arms about this.

 

They’re spoiled, big babies whose Super Bowl has become Lamar winning MVPs.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

32 minutes ago, Logic said:

Unfortunately, SEVERAL AP voters have felt the need to defend/explain their Josh pick since last night, because they're all receiving a bunch of backlash and mockery from everyone from Dominique Foxworth on ESPN's Get Up, to Mike Florio of PFT, and on and on.

As far as I can tell, the vast majority of AP voters take their job very seriously, and several of them have mentioned poring over multiple games and All-22 and agonizing over their decisions. Only for people who DON'T do that (like Foxworth and Florio) to act holier than though and cast aspersions on anyone who dared to have a different opinion than them.

The discourse throughout this MVP race was highly toxic, and it continues to be so. I'm glad the race is over and Josh won, but that doesn't mean the chuckleheads are gonna back off their ill-informed stances or sophomoric insults.

It’s so ironic to me because these very same critics who said the bills were cooked/even josh isn’t good enough to carry this team in the offseason are now arguing he’s not the mvp 🤣

 

the very same people that voted a ton of ravens to the all pro team and virtually no other bills are arguing josh isn’t the most valuable.  It’s peak crazy town haha the decisions they themselves made pretty much confirmed Josh as mvp but they voted a different way and are complaining about everyone else.  If anything Josh got robbed of all pro imo.  Seems like these people were worried they’d be in more hot water if they didn’t recognize Lamar in some way and it ironically has made everything worse lol 

[LABILLBACKER]

35 minutes ago, Success said:

I don't get some of the vitriolic reaction from people who thought Lamar should have won.

 

It's not a stats award.  In reality, Lamar deserved it just as much as Josh - they both had amazing seasons.  It was a coin flip, and even though it's not supposed to matter, I think voters probably considered the idea that Lamar would have 3 MVP's and Josh none, when they're both pretty amazing and have both been great for the league.

 

And this shouldn't matter either, but it's noteworthy - the Bills beat the Ravens in the playoffs, largely because Josh played an efficient game, and Lamar turned the ball over.

 

If Lamar won, I would have been disappointed, but would hardly have been able to say it was some sort of injustice.  I really don't get why some fans are so up in arms about this.

 

So true, the MVP is NOT a stats award. It should go to the most Valuable player in the league based on his surrounding players. And yes win and playoff seeding should be factored in. As Orlovsky said accurately,  if it was only about best stats (like all pro voting), then voters would not be necessary.  You could simply allow a computer to kick out the results. I think several voters finally factored in "poor playoff" fatigue from Lamar. 

 

The bottom line was Josh was long overdue. As Saturday said, he should have won it last year. And also just came up short in 2020 where Aaron had 51 total tds to Josh's 45.

[Governor]

1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said:

I’m not sure you will have any answers either , but why is this the case though  ? I don’t see this level of hate for anyone else in the NFL…even for the grubs who’s actions deserve it ..( Apart from D Watson) …

 

A lot of the click bait media probably don’t believe what they write or say …but they seem to have a large audience that they are catering for who seem willing to lap it up..

 

JA has a life story that should be celebrated and he is one of the most talented players I have seen in my decades of watching the game …. so why the hate ? It’s not just salty Ravens fans either by the way before anyone points to this …

Rewind to right before the 1st Bills vs. Ravens playoff game. The media and most casual fans thought for sure that the next decade would be between Mahomes and Lamar. Josh destroys Lamar in that playoff game and it instantly becomes Mahomes vs. Allen. He totally steals Lamar’s thunder and Lamar becomes an afterthought.
 

All of these people you hear never got over that. They still haven’t. Thats where the vitriol comes from. Lamar’s glory was TAKEN AWAY by Josh Allen. Lamar’s perceived trajectory was destroyed after that game. That is why you see a look of disgust on media personalities faces when discussing Allen. That hate is real.

Edited 3 hours ago by Governor

[WotAGuy]

It’s all a PR stunt. The agents/advertisers financially support the shows and need ratings, so they create these issues to make noise and keep obsessive fans engaged. It feels Oscar-esque. NFL=WWE now. 
 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by WotAGuy

[Just Jack]

54 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Ravens fans and Bills fans have been defending their QB from all the critics since they were drafted because they were such polarizing prospects.  They're also such great leaders that teammates and fans will go to war for them (theoretically speaking).  Any slight or perceived injustice will lead fans to aggressively defend their guy. 

 

I know a few Ravens season ticket holders and while they appreciate Jackson the player, they do not like Jackson the person. 

[Logic]

39 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

I’m not sure you will have any answers either , but why is this the case though  ? I don’t see this level of hate for anyone else in the NFL…even for the grubs who’s actions deserve it ..( Apart from D Watson) …

 

A lot of the click bait media probably don’t believe what they write or say …but they seem to have a large audience that they are catering for who seem willing to lap it up..

 

JA has a life story that should be celebrated and he is one of the most talented players I have seen in my decades of watching the game …. so why the hate ? It’s not just salty Ravens fans either by the way before anyone points to this …

You're right that I don't have any answers, but I have a few opinions.

For one thing, I think that both Lamar Jackson's fans and Josh Allen's fans are WILDLY loyal to and defensive of their guy. Both were doubted coming out of college and have been doubted or disrespected (though the comparative extent of this disrespect for each guy is up for debate) ever since. Ironically, Josh and Lamar's fans should probably each root for (or at least have empathy for) the OTHER guy, too, because their cases and stories are way more similar than they are different.

So the first opinion I have is that the fierce loyalty and defensiveness that each fan base has on behalf of their favorite QB causes the two fan bases, when they butt up against each other, to get really heated and emotional and intense. Since Josh and Lamar will always be compared as members of the same draft class, and as guys whose paths are likely to cross often in the AFC playoffs, we can expect continued heated debate and vitriol.

The second opinion I have relates more to the media talking heads: A lot of people have confirmation bias and take lock regarding Josh Allen. They had strong opinions and/or made strong statements about him coming out of college, and they don't like being shown up or having to admit that they were wrong now. They cling to any piece of evidence that supports their original, outdated analysis, and disregard and belittle any new piece of evidence that proves they were wrong. People HATE being wrong.

The third opinion I have, again, relating more to the media talking heads (but also to the fans) is: there are racial components. Some of the stuff Dominique Foxworth and Ryan Clark and others have said have the whiff of a certain bias towards Lamar and against Josh. On the other hand, many Ravens fans claim the same type of bias but in the other direction from guys like Dan Orlovsky and Chris Simms. Ravens fans claim Bills fans are racist for things like the hanging Kermit/Mahomes effigy, Josh's Twitter comments from high school/college, etc. I've seen each fan base claim that the other fan base's QB gets preferential treatment from the media because of race. So even though all of it is pretty silly, it doesn't change the fact that it enters the discussion, and lots of people feel its a factor, and it taints the discussion we sometimes see on television about these guys.

I agree that it's an uncommonly heated and vitriolic debate. I think most of the discussion is toxic and immature and silly. Alas, this is the culture in which we live. Social media, 24 hour sports news cycle, clickbait media, etc, etc. It's gross.

[Doc Brown]

12 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

I know a few Ravens season ticket holders and while they appreciate Jackson the player, they do not like Jackson the person. 

Why?  

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, aristocrat said:

 

 

Thats our QB!!! Wouldn't want anyone else. I could not watch that without tears.

[Rockpile233]

Congratulations to Josh!! I was engaged in him getting an MVP for his resume, but probably won’t care that much ever again. Lamar people caring so much about a third MVP when there’s been so little playoff success is weird.

[zow2]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

So true, the MVP is NOT a stats award. It should go to the most Valuable player in the league based on his surrounding players. And yes win and playoff seeding should be factored in. As Orlovsky said accurately,  if it was only about best stats (like all pro voting), then voters would not be necessary.  You could simply allow a computer to kick out the results. I think several voters finally factored in "poor playoff" fatigue from Lamar. 

 

The bottom line was Josh was long overdue. As Saturday said, he should have won it last year. And also just came up short in 2020 where Aaron had 51 total tds to Josh's 45.

 

As much as Nick Wright is annoying.  I agree with what he said today,, that things are appropriately aligned now.  In other words, Lamar is not 3 MVP's to Zero better than Josh.   Lamar is not 3 MVPs to 2 better than Mahomes.   

 

When you look at the totality of their regular season accomplishments over the years, it makes sense that Mahomes and Lamar have 2 MVPs and Allen has 1.     

[Scott7975]

51 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

I know a few Ravens season ticket holders and while they appreciate Jackson the player, they do not like Jackson the person. 

 

Do they say why? I haven't seen anything that would make me not like Jackson the person. He seems like a good dude from what I have seen.

[Man with No Name]

Allen sitting out the last week while Baltimore was playing for a seed in that week skewed perspectives too hard. people see only one more win for Buffalo, but in reality it should have been 2 more wins. And in any case it was 2 less losses for Josh. that matters. That's not even to mention the extra stats Lamar got from playing that week. The running TDs matter. The total turnovers matter. And yes, the idea of Lamar being up 3-0 in the MVP count matters. Turn off the tv. I'm not watching any of the stuff, and don't need to see the clips. The Oishei's video is the only thing ive watched related to this. GREAT enough for me. 

 

Don't let anyone talk you into Josh not deserving this. HE 100% DOES. 

 

GO BILLS!

[ToGoGo]

2 hours ago, Success said:

I don't get some of the vitriolic reaction from people who thought Lamar should have won.

 

It's not a stats award.  In reality, Lamar deserved it just as much as Josh - they both had amazing seasons.  It was a coin flip, and even though it's not supposed to matter, I think voters probably considered the idea that Lamar would have 3 MVP's and Josh none, when they're both pretty amazing and have both been great for the league.

 

And this shouldn't matter either, but it's noteworthy - the Bills beat the Ravens in the playoffs, largely because Josh played an efficient game, and Lamar turned the ball over.

 

If Lamar won, I would have been disappointed, but would hardly have been able to say it was some sort of injustice.  I really don't get why some fans are so up in arms about this.

 

 

It’s the Ravens fans. 
 

All year the Bills fans have said “Lamar is great but Allen should win.”  
 

The Ravens fans instead have an attitude of “Lamar smoked Allen in week 4. Allen sucks. Lamar all the way.” 
 

They’re dumb, macho, ignorant, and in my opinion racist. They deserve to lose the game and this award. 

[Ralonzo]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

Put simply, both guys had great (and legitimate cases), so any reasonable person should be able to say "both guys deserved it. It was a close race. Congrats to whoever wins". You can root for your favorite guy or have a stance on who should win, sure, but being reasonable means recognizing that they BOTH had all-world seasons, and either of them winning would make sense for a variety of reasons.

On the other hand, if you are NOT capable of recognizing the greatness (and deservingness) of the other guy, and if the only way you can prop up your preferred candidate is by tearing down the other guy and pretending like he didn't have a good case, then, well...I don't think particularly highly of your maturity level, intellect, or ability to rationally recognize and process nuance.

Unfortunately, there seem to be far too few of the former, and far too many of the latter. Or at least, those in the latter camp seem to be much more loudly vocal and forceful in the espousing of their opinion.

A real shame.

 

I don't think the take that the MVP of the Ravens team was not Lamar Jackson but Derrick Henry is a stretch. Their record when Henry was held in check < 90 yards, was brutal. There wasn't a similar correlation for Jackson.

 

No qualms about Jackson getting 1st Team All-Pro at all. For counting stats his season stood up against any other QB's and was judged to be the most prolific. But VALUABLE means, you're the guy on your team. When you roll, your team wins; when you don't, your team loses (cough Houston). When there's a guy whose performance has more of an impact on wins and losses sharing the same backfield, I don't see how you can be the regarded as the Most Valuable Player amongst every team in the entire league.