Bills Hire Ryan Nielsen Senior Defensive Assistant.

[Spiderweb]

20 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

You aren’t going to get there. The game has changed. You have to blitz or you have to cover. Nobody is touching these good QBs the ball is out way to fast. Even our own QB never gets sacked. The people thinking traditional lineman are going to win and get to these top QBs aren’t paying attention. You aren’t. It’s not even new. Even Brady was that way. The ball is gone before you’ll get there. You have to blitz and you have to confuse them 

Blitz? It's likely necessary, but look at the top sack leaders. They get more than their fair share without the aid of the blitz. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Spiderweb said:

Blitz? It's likely necessary, but look at the top sack leaders. They get more than their fair share without the aid of the blitz. 

True, but you need to play strong man to give those pass rushers that extra second or 2 for the rushers to get there.

 

Also, I am banging the table to get somone next to Oliver so we provide pressure up the middle.  If the QB can't step up into the pocket...

[Bookie Man]

maybe we can actually try and run a stunt?

[NewEra]

46 minutes ago, Bookie Man said:

maybe we can actually try and run a stunt?

Agreed.  Our stunt usage was WAY down this year to my eye. Does anyone have access to that type of stat?

[NewEra]

15 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Guys... we tried to play man coverage vs the Chiefs. We got torn apart. The Bills played more man coverage in its final two games of 2024 (Baltimore and KC) than in any two consecutive games of the McDemott era. This narrative that the problem is zone coverage has to stop. It is utter, utter, hogwash.

 

Agree on Hamlin. Unfortunately Bishop does not play that position. He is a Rapp alternative. We still need a free safety.

Do you have Mahomes’ stats vs one zone and vs our man from the afccg?  Pretty sure he was much better vs our zone than our man.  
 

we were also without Benford bs KC.  
 

My narrative isn’t that we play a too soft of a zone.  My narrative is that we need to mix is more man and be more multiple to keep offenses guessing.  
 

I’m looking forward to what Nelson can bring to the table and I’m happy that McD added him to the staff.  I like what he brings to the table.

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Do you have Mahomes’ stats vs one zone and vs our man from the afccg?  Pretty sure he was much better vs our zone than our man.  
 

we were also without Benford bs KC.  
 

My narrative isn’t that we play a too soft of a zone.  My narrative is that we need to mix is more man and be more multiple to keep offenses guessing.  
 

I’m looking forward to what Nelson can bring to the table and I’m happy that McD added him to the staff.  I like what he brings to the table.

 

I don't but in those last 2 drives of the first half where they scored TDs he was shredding man coverage.

 

Sure we need the ability to mix it up but we played too much man vs both KC and Baltimore IMO.

Edited February 9 by GunnerBill

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

3 hours ago, Spiderweb said:

Blitz? It's likely necessary, but look at the top sack leaders. They get more than their fair share without the aid of the blitz. 

But how many of them are against the lesser QBs? The ones holding onto the ball to long? I’m not saying you’ll never get there, but we definitely don’t. We never do. And we constantly rush 4. Our whole philosophy is to not let teams get over the top. I don’t know what year this dude thinks it is but that’s not even something to fear. These good QBs have no issue slashing you for 7/8 yards at a time. Then get us on skates and the run is there. The entire defense needs to be reimagined. That most likely requires a new person to coach it

[NewEra]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't but in those last 2 drives of the first half where they scored TDs he was shredding man coverage.

 

Sure we need the ability to mix it up but we played too much man vs both KC and Baltimore IMO.

Joe Marino went over Mahomes’ stats vs man and vs zone vs us and he was much better vs zone.  I forget which episode 

[Brand J]

10 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Joe Marino went over Mahomes’ stats vs man and vs zone vs us and he was much better vs zone.  I forget which episode 

I remember listening, but you’ve got it backwards. Against the Bills, Mahomes was much better against man (almost near perfect) than zone (something like 6-11 for modest yards).

[BarleyNY]

I’m happy to see an experienced coach come in. Hopefully this means some fresh ideas. I’m interested in what this means for our defensive personnel. 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Brand J said:

I remember listening, but you’ve got it backwards. Against the Bills, Mahomes was much better against man (almost near perfect) than zone (something like 6-11 for modest yards).

 

This correlates much more with what I saw. Both live and watching it back. He had that big play to JuJu down the seam vs zone on the first drive where Bishop completely blew his assignment. But otherwise the Bills to my eye dealt pretty well with him in zone. They got carved when they tried to play man.

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, Brand J said:

I remember listening, but you’ve got it backwards. Against the Bills, Mahomes was much better against man (almost near perfect) than zone (something like 6-11 for modest yards).

Thanks for clearing that up-  sorry for the poor post.  
 

I listen at 4am on the way to work-  brain clearly not functioning 🤣 

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, Brand J said:

I remember listening, but you’ve got it backwards. Against the Bills, Mahomes was much better against man (almost near perfect) than zone (something like 6-11 for modest yards).

 

Found it.

 

vs Man 12-14 for 169 1TD (plus a rushing score)

 

vs Zone 6-11 for 76 yards (plus a rushing score) 

 

Against man he was getting the ball out in 1.7 seconds. The man coverage was a disaster. You have to have athletes to play that. We have one athelete back there in Elam and sadly he is terrible at football.

 

Against zone take out that coverage bust by Bishop it was 5-10 for 45 yards.

 

Edited February 9 by GunnerBill

[SoonerBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Bookie Man said:

maybe we can actually try and run a stunt?

What is this stunt thing you speak of?  😝

30 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Found it.

 

vs Man 12-14 for 169 1TD (plus a rushing score)

 

vs Zone 6-11 for 76 yards (plus a rushing score) 

 

Against man he was getting the ball out in 1.7 seconds. The man coverage was a disaster. You have to have athletes to play that. We have one athelete back there in Elam and sadly he is terrible at football.

 

Against zone take out that coverage bust by Bishop it was 5-10 for 45 yards.

 

That is the thing,with the addition of this new coach, I see us bringing in better Man corners.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

 

That is the thing,with the addition of this new coach, I see us bringing in better Man corners.

 

I mean... in Jacksonville he tried to force man coverage on a former 7th round pick (all season) and a 5th round rookie when Tyson Campbell was out. We saw first hand how that went vs Buffalo. 

 

If the Bills want to move to a defense that plays 40% man coverage (which would be top in the NFL btw percentage wise) they need to remake their secondary. Cos you can't do that with the guys they have.

[SoonerBillsFan]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I mean... in Jacksonville he tried to force man coverage on a former 7th round pick (all season) and a 5th round rookie when Tyson Campbell was out. We saw first hand how that went vs Buffalo. 

 

If the Bills want to move to a defense that plays 40% man coverage (which would be top in the NFL btw percentage wise) they need to remake their secondary. Cos you can't do that with the guys they have.

I think that we are closer than not.

[gonzo1105]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I mean... in Jacksonville he tried to force man coverage on a former 7th round pick (all season) and a 5th round rookie when Tyson Campbell was out. We saw first hand how that went vs Buffalo. 

 

If the Bills want to move to a defense that plays 40% man coverage (which would be top in the NFL btw percentage wise) they need to remake their secondary. Cos you can't do that with the guys they have.

I think the end of the season showed they want to become more of a man team. How much who knows but it wouldn’t surprise me to see a shift towards guys of that ilk

[Brand J]

59 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Found it.

 

vs Man 12-14 for 169 1TD (plus a rushing score)

 

vs Zone 6-11 for 76 yards (plus a rushing score) 

 

Against man he was getting the ball out in 1.7 seconds. The man coverage was a disaster. You have to have athletes to play that. We have one athelete back there in Elam and sadly he is terrible at football.

 

Against zone take out that coverage bust by Bishop it was 5-10 for 45 yards.

 

The reason those numbers stuck in my mind, all the way to being able to recall 6-11 against zone, was that it totally caught me by surprise. I’ve been wanting the Bills to run man more often and bring more pressure, so when it was assessed they ran man 43% of the time against the Chiefs and Ravens and the result was that poor, it was one of those “careful what you wish for” moments for me.
 

We need to overhaul our slow footed secondary and get a difference maker on the line of scrimmage. Do those two things and the shift in performance will be drastic whether we run man or zone, I think.

[GunnerBill]

47 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

I think the end of the season showed they want to become more of a man team. How much who knows but it wouldn’t surprise me to see a shift towards guys of that ilk

 

It wouldn't me either. But if they do, they need to spend a lot of resources on the secondary. 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

If the Bills want to move to a defense that plays 40% man coverage (which would be top in the NFL btw percentage wise) they need to remake their secondary.

 

I think this is going to be a big focus of the offseason. I know everyone is focused on the DL. But it almost doesn't matter when the QB is able to get the ball out in >2 seconds because his receivers are winning immediately. Elam is officially a bust so they need to make another significant investment there IMO. If the goal is to play more man as recent moves would indicate they need to upgrade 3/4 of their secondary.

 

I know the man/zone splits against Mahomes were in favor of zone, but the splits against Lamar the week before were the exact opposite. From the Athletic:

 

Quote

When the Bills played zone coverage against the Ravens, Lamar Jackson went a perfect 12-of-12 for 180 yards and two touchdowns. He added another 44 yards on four scramble opportunities. That yields a simply dominating 15 yards per attempt and with the scrambles mixed in, the Ravens averaged 14 yards per dropback.

 

When the Bills were in man coverage, Jackson completed only six passes on 13 attempts (46.2 percent), and the Ravens gained only 74 yards. On top of that, Jackson’s lone interception and both sacks — including the fumble takeaway — were when they were in man coverage. The Ravens averaged only 5.6 yards per attempt against man coverage, and factoring in the yardage lost on the sacks, they averaged only 4 yards per dropback.

 

That is almost a 10-yard difference in yards per attempt, and exactly a 10-yard difference in yards per dropback. And if that doesn’t drive the point home enough, Jackson didn’t have a single scramble against man coverage — taking out one of the prongs of his game that makes him one of the most dynamic in the NFL.

 

Also to my eyes it wasn't going more zone-heavy that affected Mahomes in the 2nd half, it was being more disciplined in our contain rush. In the 1st half we were getting burned in zone and man, it really didn't matter.

 

So personally I don't care if it's a man or zone heavy approach. Either can be successful or not. The coaches and players simply have to perform better in either case. In man we can't have massive mistakes like Hamlin ending up 1v1 against Worthy in the slot. We can't have all of our CBs at equal depth creating easy rub opportunities. In zone we can't line both CBs 7 yards off their man and then pointlessly blitz off such a soft look.

 

More important than any specific scheme is that McDermott and Babich and Beane need to figure out exactly what kind of defense they want to run and plan accordingly this offseason. By the end of this past season they were reeling and seemingly just calling the defense at random, likely because they had no confidence they could do any particular thing well. Compare that to the offense where at times it may have felt like a slog, but at least it had an identity and a package of plays they knew they could call successfully, and it came into every game with an intent. I couldn't tell you what the defense's intent was against KC. I guess pray and hold on for dear life.