Myles Garrett requests a trade

[Brand J]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

He's not even a elite defender. He's a "good" player. Not very good. As I put it in another comment, he's a good "edge setter". We need a pass rusher. 

Ok, so this is the Jerry Hughes argument then? The guy that everyone loved that was great at getting pressures but only ever got like 5 sacks a season? He isn't "very good". He is not a player you invest $20-$25 million a year in

My ceiling for Groot would be $18M/yr. Anything more than that, buh bye. He’s in that same tier as Oliver, although Oliver has shown up at times against Mahomes. Groot, I don’t remember the last big play he’s made. He could’ve made a monumental play keeping eyes on Mahomes on that 4th and 1. Had he stayed home and “set the edge,” Bills get the ball back at the KC 39 yard line.

[Buffalo03]

4 minutes ago, Brand J said:

My ceiling for Groot would be $18M/yr. Anything more than that, buh bye. He’s in that same tier as Oliver, although Oliver has shown up at times against Mahomes. Groot, I don’t remember the last big play he’s made. He could’ve made a monumental play keeping eyes on Mahomes on that 4th and 1. Had he stayed home and “set the edge,” Bills get the ball back at the KC 39 yard line.

That's what I would say, he is Oliver except on the outside. He has good games and then games where he disappears. It seems like most people here are fine paying the dude $25 million a season, I don't see it 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

29 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I feel like Garrett is a bit of a weird fit in their scheme as a heavy base DE. I suppose he would move to OLB. He would still eat cuz he’s a dude, but they use so many simulated pressures there I am not sure they really need him. 

Reminds me of what would be like Micah Parsons in Dallas when they had him playing all over in the 3-4 under whatever since-been-fired defensive coordinator.  

[NewEra]

23 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

He's not even a elite defender. He's a "good" player. Not very good. As I put it in another comment, he's a good "edge setter". We need a pass rusher. 

Ok, so this is the Jerry Hughes argument then? The guy that everyone loved that was great at getting pressures but only ever got like 5 sacks a season? He isn't "very good". He is not a player you invest $20-$25 million a year in

You don’t give him enough credit.  He’s a better pass rusher than you are portraying him to be.  As he is a run defender.  
 

you have your opinion.  I disagree.  He’s worth 20M

[Buffalo03]

5 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You don’t give him enough credit.  He’s a better pass rusher than you are portraying him to be.  As he is a run defender.  
 

you have your opinion.  I disagree.  He’s worth 20M

enough of these "he's a good edge setter" "he's good at collapsing the pocket" "he's good at getting pressures but never gets many sacks" type of guys. The fact that everyone is ok with players like this is why we will never go anywhere. The guy got 3 sacks the first game of the season, he got 2 and half the rest of the year. What are you talking about that he is better than I give him credit for?

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Buffalo03

[T.E.]

14 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

That's what I would say, he is Oliver except on the outside. He has good games and then games where he disappears. It seems like most people here are fine paying the dude $25 million a season, I don't see it 

Rousseau and Oliver are both barely above-average, yet tons of Bills fans act like they're elite players. It's bizarre. Almost like they're trying to manifest greatness that clearly isn't there.

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

enough of these "he's a good edge setter" "he's good at collapsing the pocket" "he's good at getting pressures but never gets many sacks" type of guys. The fact that everyone is ok with players like this is why we will never go anywhere. The guy got 3 sacks the first game of the season, he got 2 and half the rest of the year. What are you talking about that he is better than I give him credit for?

 

He was 2nd in QB hits, 3rd in forced

fumbles, 10th in hurries 10th in stops, 11th in batted passes.  
 

Pff gave him an 81 pass rush grade- 13th 

and 83 overall- 12th overall for DEs.  
 

Yes- it sucks that he didn’t  come through vs KC in the playoffs but he had a sack vs Baltimore and Denver. He had a sack last year in the playoffs too.  Overall- he’s played well in the playoffs.  He didn’t vs KC…..doesn’t mean that will continue.  He’s an ascending player that will be highly coveted 

 

agree to disagree- I’ll leave you to your thoughts and say ✌️ 

[colin]

We'll know Groot's absolutely ceiling, and Oliver too, once they play w Myles.  With the three of them in the field in high leverage situations, you can see how much impact they have.  Myles is proven, he'll make the other guys better than they are 

[NewEra]

17 minutes ago, T.E. said:

Rousseau and Oliver are both barely above-average, yet tons of Bills fans act like they're elite players. It's bizarre. Almost like they're trying to manifest greatness that clearly isn't there.

Tons of fans exaggerate.  I don’t feel many of us are saying that Ed and Rousssau are elite.  I’m in both of their fan clubs- but neither are elite.  Both very good and capable of dominating.  Both likely better than you think….no one’s saying they’re elite sans maybe a handful

Edited 19 hours ago by NewEra

[CircleTheWagons99]

6 hours ago, Allen2Moulds said:

I like you're thinking, but I would prefer Tee Higgins over Kupp.  I know both have there injury risks, but Kupp is on the decline, and we already have Shakir.

Agree. If they can do it then more power to them.

[Buffalo03]

36 minutes ago, T.E. said:

Rousseau and Oliver are both barely above-average, yet tons of Bills fans act like they're elite players. It's bizarre. Almost like they're trying to manifest greatness that clearly isn't there.

And one guy talking about his "potential". Who talks about potential for a guy going into his 5th year? He should have already reached it. And what more do they see him doing? I personally don't see much more coming from him. There is a reason to this point the Bills have not signed him to an extension. That still could happen but I just don't see him being anything more than he already is

27 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Tons of fans exaggerate.  I don’t feel many of us are saying that Ed and Rousssau are elite.  I’m in both of their fan clubs- but neither are elite.  Both very good and capable of dominating.  Both likely better than you think….no one’s saying they’re elite sans maybe a handful

They each have great games but then disappear for long stretches. How do you not see this?

[Sojourner]

27 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Tons of fans exaggerate.  I don’t feel many of us are saying that Ed and Rousssau are elite.  I’m in both of their fan clubs- but neither are elite.  Both very good and capable of dominating.  Both likely better than you think….no one’s saying they’re elite sans maybe a handful

Yeah, this is where I’m at. And those spells it what makes it more infuriating that they both don’t show up at the same time when the season is win or go home. It’s a collective effort but with McD’s scheme and the remaining talent on the defense, especially this year, makes me not willing to miss them if they’re not here. Not suggesting they shouldn’t by any means as there is well above average talent there. 

[Buffalo03]

40 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He was 2nd in QB hits, 3rd in forced

fumbles, 10th in hurries 10th in stops, 11th in batted passes.  
 

Pff gave him an 81 pass rush grade- 13th 

and 83 overall- 12th overall for DEs.  
 

Yes- it sucks that he didn’t  come through vs KC in the playoffs but he had a sack vs Baltimore and Denver. He had a sack last year in the playoffs too.  Overall- he’s played well in the playoffs.  He didn’t vs KC…..doesn’t mean that will continue.  He’s an ascending player that will be highly coveted 

 

agree to disagree- I’ll leave you to your thoughts and say ✌️ 

He's not getting sacks. All of the amazing "pressures" don't mean nothing if you only get home 2.5 times from week 2 until week 18

[BillsFanForever19]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

One, no one said it automatically makes us a super bowl winner.  Two, a 14 sack guy is a pretty damn good player.  What you arent seeing is all the other non sack plays where he blows up the pocket and forces a bad throw/turnover, or a throw away, stops a run for a loss, tackles the QB for a short gain that isn't scored a sack, knocks a pass down, and more importantly draws double and triple coverage helping the rest of your D be more effective.  

 

Your minimization of the 14 sacks tells me you may just not understand the impact a difference maker on the edge can be and how it affects the whole defense.  Don't take my word for it, just look at what GM's pay these guys.  And let me tell you, if you take Chris Jones off the Chiefs, there is no way they are reigning back to back SB Champs, and they certainly don't reach the SB 3 straight seasons.  

 

And improve the offensive firepower?  Do you even realize the Bills 2024 offense was the 16th highest scoring offense in NFL history...and that is while factoring in taking off whole quarters in several games, even most of whole halves and skipping the final game of the season.  They set a number of offensive NFL records as a team, including most wins by 20+ points in NFL history and numerous individual offensive records.  Dont get me wrong, we need to add another outside WR who can put pressure downfiled as well, but you act like this offense was inept the way you and some others descirbe it.  It was literally and factually historically great to go along with the fact that we are also the highest scoring team in the NFL over the past 5 seasons too.  

 

So really what you are saying, the only way the Bills can do any better is to have one of the top 10, or top 5, or even the #1 offense in history to win a SB.  Funny thing about that...only 3 of the top 10 offenses in history even won a SB (5th, 8th, and 10th ranked offenses) and the top 4 offenses won none including 2 SB losses and 2 teams that didn't make the SB...the 2 teams that didn't reach were the 2018 Mahomes led Chiefs, his highest powered offense of his career and the 2024 Lions where they were devastated by defensive injuries during the season.  

 

This idea that even more offense automatically gets us there is neither historically or currently accurate.  Meanwhile, the Chiefs with a mediocre offensive core around Mahomes at best the past 3 seasons are in their 3rd straight Super Bowl with a chance to be the first team in history to three peat.  The dynasty before them was the Pats who also won 6 Super Bowls with mediocre offensive cast (and some years worse than that) around Brady and lost 3 Super Bowls when the Pats where a high powered passing attack including losing to Nick Foles when Brady threw over 500 yards in the Super Bowl.  

 

We all love offense, but if you cant get off the field on defense, then you put the pressure on the offense to be perfect...and that includes needing the refs to be perfect too.  And we lost to KC because the refs f-ed us twice on the same set of downs stealing 2 first downs from us which then our defense allowed KC to score a TD and 2 pt conversion.  But we still had a chance to over come the refs screw job...but Allen misread the coverage, shifted protection to the wrong side, threw a hero ball under duress and a TE with hurt knees failed to come down with the catch on the adjustment.  Season over.

 

But what happens if we get a 3rd down stop instead of surrendering an 8 point drive on that series?  Or just one stop on one of their other scoring series?  We still only lost by 3...one stop would have been the difference in the game the last 3 losses to KC in the playoffs.  Just one.  

 

If you want to keep leaving it in the hands of the offense needing to be perfect in every postseason well then good luck, its a much tougher way to win.  

 

PS:  The Number 1 QB and #1 WR in the NFL this season were on the same team...they also had Tee Higgins too...they didn't make the playoffs.  But the Steelers in the same division did with a weak passing attack led by the combo of washed Russel Wilson and bust Justin Fields.  Offense isn't everything.

 

As I've said numerous times, I've never said Garrett wouldn't be an improvement to the Pass Rush and isn't a great player. That post was just to say that the common thread on here of adding him equals a ring so you do whatever it takes isn't accurate to me.

 

Like @HappyDays pointed out (sorry to keep tagging you, but you've been hitting on points I'm in line with) - against KC, there wasn't a whole lot of opportunities to get to Mahomes to begin with. His passes were mostly out, quick release. And there would have been even more of an emphasis on getting the ball out quick to neutralize Garrett if he were on the field.

 

But you know what would have made a difference? If we could have scored TD's on more than 4 of our 9 Drives. If 4 of our 9 Drives weren't Punts or Turnovers on Downs. If Josh had a guy that could beat his man and separate without having to run around and hope protection breaks down somewhere.

 

Josh threw for 127 yards against Baltimore and 237 against KC. If not for the sheer will of James Cook in the 2nd Half, we wouldn't have stayed in the game. And when push came to shove, our pass catchers dropped the ball. Literally and figuratively.

 

The key to beating Mahomes and Reid is to score more points than them. They regularly overcome the best Defenses in the Playoffs. We've tried the "more defense" route with them and it's gotten us nowhere in the Playoffs. 

 

Do I believe we need another DE and an improvement in Pass Rush? Yes. But we also need to replace Daquan Jones in the middle of the line. And we also need to find Rasul Douglas' replacement opposite Christian Benford. And yes, I do believe the most important thing is having a True #1 WR for Josh.

 

Would I be thrilled to have Garrett? Of course. But the cost is so much in terms of Draft compensation and a new contract that a number of those areas are going to have to be neglected more than they should.

 

You obviously, and adamantly so, believe that Pass Rush is the most important thing. I, respectfully, disagree. And we'll have to agree to disagree there. If we have a shot at someone like DK Metcalf or Tee Higgins - I would do that first and address DE with a less expensive option. But if Beane chooses Garrett, I would of course be on board and thrilled to have him.

Edited 18 hours ago by BillsFanForever19

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Like @HappyDays pointed out (sorry to keep tagging you, but you've been hitting on points I'm in line with) - against KC, there wasn't a whole lot of opportunities to get to Mahomes to begin with. His passes were mostly out, quick release. Garrett, in my opinion, wouldn't have made much of a difference in that game. There would have been even more of an emphasis on getting the ball out quick to neutralize Garrett if he were on the field.

 

 

I actually disagree with you (and surprisingly @HappyDays for once) on the notion that there werent opportunities to get to Mahomes. We had plenty of opportunities where he held onto the ball, felt the heat, slid around the pocket, dodged another hand, and then ultimately broke contain to extend the play. ANY of those plays were opportunities for Garrett to make a direct impact by actually getting to Mahomes instead of almost getting to him.

 

You talk about changing the drive outcomes.

 

The Bills D only made 3.5 stops all game (counting FGs as .5), including 0 in the first half.

The Chiefs D made 4.5 stops.

 

If we got to Mahomes just once on any of our 3rd down opportunities, that adds another stop for the Bills and we win comfortably.

 

The issue was allowing the Chiefs to score 30+, for their first time all season.

 

I get we are splitting hairs here and seeing the same thing from different sides. But I really wanted to just point out there were opportunities where Garrett could have directly changed the entire game by just making one more play for our D.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

The more I look into the pass rushing options at #30, the more moving for Garrett makes sense. If you want a real three down impact player, I’m guessing you need to get up to #15-20 overall. That’s going to take potentially #30,  #56 and some change. 
 

Considering all that, if you can get Garrett for a first and a second, it’d be worth it imo for a purely picks stand point.
 

Eating the $$$ vs. drafting a player? Well that’s what you pay to get the sure thing vs a crap shoot

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

You're right, I was erroneously looking at his 2023 stats (as his Wiki doesn't list his 2024 stats for whatever reason). 

 

It appears he did have a down season in 2024. But his first 3 years were good enough to be a part of the PFWA's All Rookie team, be a full time starter, and for the Browns to exercise their 5th Year Option on him. 

 

While the down year and the high price of a 1st Round 5th Year Option undoubtedly drops his value from what it was, I don't think he's now a net negative. Last year the Browns organization as a whole was misled chaos and about as a dark cloud you can have over a locker room as any. I think teams would take that into account and look at last year as an anomaly compared to the 3 years prior.

 

I'd put his value at about a 3rd Round Pick. Which is what Bleacher Report suggests in a proposed trade for Newsome to San Francisco: https://www.si.com/nfl/49ers/news/will-the-49ers-trade-for-cleveland-browns-cb-greg-newsome-01jk91jmhzzd

 

Well that's just a blogger making bulk content and doing about as much research as you did.  

 

If you really think he's worth a 3rd round pick at $13M+ cap hit, with no team control beyond 2025 and coming off a near league worst year and with just 3 INT's in 4 seasons of heavy usage.........I don't know what to tell you.  

 

He's been a borderline bust.  Mac Jones and Javonte Williams were all rookie team in 2021 too.   The overall body of work for Newsome was meh until it was terrible.

 

 I think Cleveland would love to get a 7th for him if they are facing $35M in dead money.........next year is lost anyway.

 

 And they can't even release him to save the money.   It's guaranteed.  

 

Why would any team take that on if they weren't getting something in return?

 

If cap space weren't an issue maybe they just take their lumps and hope he bounces back to being a low impact starter but you can sign players of that caliber in UFA for less guaranteed money than that.

[Coach Tuesday]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I understand the sentiment but if we re-drafted 2021.......Rousseau would be a top 12-15 pick.   There is no personnel chip more overrated than a 1st round pick.   They are valuable but SO overrated.   They rarely live up to the hype and only about half even get their 5th year option picked up and then some of those decisions look terrible(Greg Newsome example).   Rousseau was a HR by comparison to the field.   A solo HR perhaps, but clearly one of the better values.

 

Funny thing is I saw ESPN did a re-draft of 2024 the other day.........and everyone thinks Coleman was a disappointment right?.......but he was a first round pick in the re-draft compared to the field.   Worthy and McConkey ranked higher but lot's of teams appear to have chosen worse. 

To be fair they had the Bills as the team drafting him (again) in the re-draft… but I agree with the broader point.

[BADOLBILZ]

38 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I actually disagree with you (and surprisingly @HappyDays for once) on the notion that there werent opportunities to get to Mahomes. We had plenty of opportunities where he held onto the ball, felt the heat, slid around the pocket, dodged another hand, and then ultimately broke contain to extend the play. ANY of those plays were opportunities for Garrett to make a direct impact by actually getting to Mahomes instead of almost getting to him.

 

You talk about changing the drive outcomes.

 

The Bills D only made 3.5 stops all game (counting FGs as .5), including 0 in the first half.

The Chiefs D made 4.5 stops.

 

If we got to Mahomes just once on any of our 3rd down opportunities, that adds another stop for the Bills and we win comfortably.

 

The issue was allowing the Chiefs to score 30+, for their first time all season.

 

I get we are splitting hairs here and seeing the same thing from different sides. But I really wanted to just point out there were opportunities where Garrett could have directly changed the entire game by just making one more play for our D.

 

 

Yeah I can't get behind the idea that fielding a better defense isn't a great idea.  

 

*Maybe* there was no catching the 15-1 Chiefs this season.......but the Bills lost the LOS defensively in their losses.   The only loss where having Garrett might not have been enough to change the outcome was maybe the Ravens game.   And even then.......Garrett has always been a problem for the Ravens and was huge in the Browns win over Baltimore.   Houston, Rams.......they win those games with marginally better DL play.  Defense probably closes out the Lions earlier for a 3 score win.  

 

Then if both Buffalo and KC are 15-1........you hold the tie breaker going into week 18.

 

And in the playoffs,  other teams that have been able to get pressure have challenged the Chiefs offense.   I may be skeptical of McD's plans but I don't think it's fair to discount it when he's NEVER had an impact defender.

 

I also don't think that getting Garrett should mean Beane should not throw weight at the boundary WR position.   It's not a one player fix but even 3-4 starting lineup changes shouldn't be a big ask.  

 

 

Edited 17 hours ago by BADOLBILZ

[BADOLBILZ]

11 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

To be fair they had the Bills as the team drafting him (again) in the re-draft… but I agree with the broader point.

 

 

Yeah, before the Poyer-impact injury Keon Coleman was on pace for perhaps 750-800 yards.   43 yards per game and 19 yards per reception aren't numbers to sneeze at.

 

I didn't expect that.  I was hoping against Coleman with that late #1 pick all thru the process because I thought he was a project and time was of the essence.

 

But I appreciated his upside,  which I compared to Davante Adams.   But Adams career started out much slower.  Coleman was further along as a rookie than Adams after year 2.   If he works at it he might be able to be a year 3 level Adams next year.   Which is a 900 yard 10 TD type.

 

But I think one of the keys for the growth of the offense is not needing to gain yards every play like this 2024 offense morphed into.   The defense was so suspect that when they played good teams outside in the elements they seemed scared to take shots downfield for fear of wasting a down.    They gotta' be more explosive than that.   A better defense could help that a lot but they still need a deep threat opposite Coleman even if he takes another step, IMO.