DLine Coaching

[BillsShredder83]

19 hours ago, Lothar said:

Marcus West only got promoted last year after former DL coach Washington left for the Bears so maybe this past year gets a pass. Besides special teams, this is the one area of the coaching staff that feels like a weakness. Even the better free agents we sign underperform while here. And then they look good when they leave (Poona Ford). Something about our scheme is amiss.

 

Maybe it's because we don't let our best lineman play upwards of 70 percent of snaps? Maybe it's a position we just draft poorly? If so, it makes sense to trade a high pick or 2 for a difference maker. Or start looking for better coaching. Imagine we get someone to help out D line the way Kromer helped the OL.

This is where the "dig another well" comment came from.  We just saw Chip Kelly get $5m from the poverty a** Raiders.  Surely we could hit the market and get difference makers here without even abusing our cap.  Are we serious about winning one???  How much is "overpaying" for a DL coach???? Just get it done.  Get Brady some help on the other side too.  Find a passing game coordinator who can help Brady out with scheming guys open.  Crazy we have to even talk about this kinda thing

[CoudyBills]

18 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

We just disagree, which is fine. 

 

I'm not taking Bruce or Bennett off the field hypothetically. Unless it's a breather.

 

If your over arching philosophy is a rotation then you need 7 studs up front imo. 

 

If so, then beane needs 5 significant upgrades on the dline imo that can match Rousseau and Oliver 

 

4 minimum upgrades 

Maybe in Madden, not in a salary cap world.  DL studs play on $100M contracts.  

[msw2112]

20 hours ago, JMM said:

1. Lack of talent

2. The insistence of rotating the lineman no matter how they are playing. 

 

I agree, but would probably reverse these two.  As some have stated above, many of these guys play better after they leave (Poona, for instance - and I just love that name), and many are also much better before they arrive.  As such, that says to me that it's scheme/coaching and a big part of the Bills' scheme is the DL rotation.  I also agree with a point made above that frequently, on a critical down, the Bills DL starters are NOT on the field.  The rotation seems to ignore the situation or point in the game and I think that's a problem.  Most teams have their best players on the field at the most critical times.

Edited 11 hours ago by msw2112

[BillsShredder83]

11 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Dorian factor.  Must underrated player on this team.  Just not great in coverage.  

 

 

 

 

Draft BPA.  Sick of forcing terrible picks based on need - Kincaid, Dwayne Carter, Boogie, AJ.  
 

Draft philosophy needs some tweaking.  

We're on the same page, small asterisk needed though.  Cant call Kincaid a non-BPA IMO.  Trading up is the way you handle BPA + need.

[RyanC883]

19 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Jones never played 85%. This year at 83% was the highest of his career. Most years he has been high 60s to mid 70s.

what are Jones playoff numbers?  I'd imagine he plays over 85% in games like those against Buffalo and the SB?  

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

what are Jones playoff numbers?  I'd imagine he plays over 85% in games like those against Buffalo and the SB?  

 

Pretty similar. He played 86% last Sunday. His highest ever playoff snap count. His highest in a Superbowl was 81% two years ago. Other Bills meetings: 74, 78, 78. 

[LABILLBACKER]

13 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Dorian factor.  Must underrated player on this team.  Just not great in coverage.  

 

 

 

 

Draft BPA.  Sick of forcing terrible picks based on need - Kincaid, Dwayne Carter, Boogie, AJ.  
 

Draft philosophy needs some tweaking.  

I used to be a huge "draft based on needs" guy.  Now I realize that based on Brandon's weakness in drafting defensive players,  it doesn't work anymore.  From here on out for this team to even survive you must take a BPA philosophy.  We absolutely can't afford anymore swing & misses on guys like Elam, AJE, Basham.  And who knows if guys like Kincaid,  Coleman or Bishop pan out? 

[Maine-iac]

3 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

what are Jones playoff numbers?  I'd imagine he plays over 85% in games like those against Buffalo and the SB?  

It wouldn't be a reach to say Jones typically plays 3 quarters or more of the snaps in the playoffs.  Pretty much the same for the last 3 regular seasons as well.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneCh09.htm#all_snap_counts

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneCh09/gamelog/2024/

[Jimmy Harris 69]

22 hours ago, Magox said:

Here is what I know, Tim Settle and Poona Ford both were lackluster when they played here and then went on to the Texans and Chargers and then they played at above average levels.

 

I don’t know why that happened just that it did.

Those wasted FA tackle dollars as well as the wasted FA safety dollars for Mike Edwards, and Louis Cine make wonder if Coach  McD is so rigid in his scheming and thinking,  that a disconnect exists between he and Beane. We saw it with Jefferson during his first stay with the Bills. On offense it was Samuel who was invisible for 17 games (31 for 253-td), while making some playoff impact (6-82-2 td’s). I am very curious about McD’s decision making as it relates to who is active and who starts. I presume he has the final say. The devotion to Hamlin despite on field performance that was middle of the road at best bothered me all year. Dorian Williams lack of playing time. I thought the defense was better when he played earlier in the year.  It begs the question whether McDermott will change the defense or the personnel in a real significant way or just hang his bills hat on incremental change, which is slow and difficult to see with the human eye. 

[Magox]

1 minute ago, Jimmy Harris 69 said:

Those wasted FA tackle dollars as well as the wasted FA safety dollars for Mike Edwards, and Louis Cine make wonder if Coach  McD is so rigid in his scheming and thinking,  that a disconnect exists between he and Beane. We saw it with Jefferson during his first stay with the Bills. On offense it was Samuel who was invisible for 17 games (31 for 253-td), while making some playoff impact (6-82-2 td’s). I am very curious about McD’s decision making as it relates to who is active and who starts. I presume he has the final say. The devotion to Hamlin despite on field performance that was middle of the road at best bothered me all year. Dorian Williams lack of playing time. I thought the defense was better when he played earlier in the year.  It begs the question whether McDermott will change the defense or the personnel in a real significant way or just hang his bills hat on incremental change, which is slow and difficult to see with the human eye. 

 

History would say that they have been philosophically speaking, incrementalists  who do have a penchant to swing for the fences (Miller, Diggs).    I do think we saw signs of them towards the end of the year trying more man to man coverages, but they just don't have the personnel to run it effectively and once Benford was out for the game, the defense was severely limited in how aggressive they could play.  My hopes are that they make more of an emphasis on press man to man coverages and blitzing next year, which the first signs of that will be who they pick up in FA or in the draft at that position.    

[hmsmystic]

More concerning than playing time is that fact that Poona Ford and Tim Settle played MUCH better this year out of our system, so the DLine system needs to be looked at along with the rotation

[3rdand12]

On 2/2/2025 at 4:08 PM, Lothar said:

Marcus West only got promoted last year after former DL coach Washington left for the Bears so maybe this past year gets a pass. Besides special teams, this is the one area of the coaching staff that feels like a weakness. Even the better free agents we sign underperform while here. And then they look good when they leave (Poona Ford). Something about our scheme is amiss.

 

Maybe it's because we don't let our best lineman play upwards of 70 percent of snaps? Maybe it's a position we just draft poorly? If so, it makes sense to trade a high pick or 2 for a difference maker. Or start looking for better coaching. Imagine we get someone to help out D line the way Kromer helped the OL.

Lothar ! Dude !

 Honing in on my perspective.

I have seen the DLine , late season truly bring enough pressures that affect the Game. So there to know there is something really good there and yet not enough is frustrating.

 Sum of it's whole when in it's groove.

 But some games they look out of sorts.

 Something IS amiss👍

[3rdand12]

19 hours ago, jahnyc said:

Our assistant DL coach (Matt Edwards) is leaving the Bills to become the DL coach for the Jags.

 

Time to bring a specialist/advisor in. Maybe old school.  To replace , instead of an apprentice

 

[Buffalo716]

7 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

This is where the "dig another well" comment came from.  We just saw Chip Kelly get $5m from the poverty a** Raiders.  Surely we could hit the market and get difference makers here without even abusing our cap.  Are we serious about winning one???  How much is "overpaying" for a DL coach???? Just get it done.  Get Brady some help on the other side too.  Find a passing game coordinator who can help Brady out with scheming guys open.  Crazy we have to even talk about this kinda thing

First there's no salary cap with coaches 

 

Second, there is a such thing as too many cooks in the kitchen 

 

You can't have too many big egos coaching in an NFL room because you actually need the opposite humility 

 

Chip maybe a pretty good coach but his ego is the size of Uranus

 

I wouldn't want him near my locker room

Edited 4 hours ago by Buffalo716

[3rdand12]

10 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

They were doing what they were coached to do, 

it’s that way for all the D line guys, our coaches don’t feel that having a guy rush the QB balls out frequently is a good idea within their scheme, It’s much the same in concept with our soft coverage that gives up easy catches with some regularity, it’s the scheme not keeping up with what opposing offenses are doing throughout a game, jmo. 

yes

Tweak the design as each game allows.

 

[Don Otreply]

22 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

yes

Tweak the design as each game allows.

 

Gotta tweak during all four quarters, 

[Malazan]

On 2/2/2025 at 3:12 PM, Kelly to Allen said:

Yup the top 4 dline players need to play 80% -85% of the snaps. Basically If a guy needs a breather, that's the rotation. Not 50/50 splits. It's self inflicted regression and dumb. Imagine Bruce Smith and Bennett only playing 60%. It's really really dumb. You also waste resource allocation for the rest of the roster. 

 

And no cover 1, it's not about " oh everyone rotates, you just hate McDermott....".

 

Ummm no, everyone doesn't rotate at our ridiculous percentages 

 

You know that data is available, right? There were only 10 players on the d line with over 80% of the snaps. There were 40 defensive lineman with 70% and one of those was Greg Rousseau at 71%. So I think your perception may not be reality.

 

However, I always love to be proven wrong so I'm looking forward to the list of teams with their top 4 d lineman playing over 80% of the snaps.

Edited 3 hours ago by Malazan

[SoonerBillsFan]

On 2/2/2025 at 3:12 PM, Kelly to Allen said:

 

The front office needs to step back and look holistically at everything in a very methodical manner. It's not working. And the pass rush is actually regressing despite immense resources poured into the dline. It's the number 1 problem in this Allen era

 

Lots of self scouting and questions. Technique, coaching in general, archetype philosophy, etc etc 

 

Yup the top 4 dline players need to play 80% -85% of the snaps. Basically If a guy needs a breather, that's the rotation. Not 50/50 splits. It's self inflicted regression and dumb. Imagine Bruce Smith and Bennett only playing 60%. It's really really dumb. You also waste resource allocation for the rest of the roster. 

 

And no cover 1, it's not about " oh everyone rotates, you just hate McDermott....".

 

Ummm no, everyone doesn't rotate at our ridiculous percentages 

The whole approach has to change.

[The Jokeman]

2 hours ago, hmsmystic said:

More concerning than playing time is that fact that Poona Ford and Tim Settle played MUCH better this year out of our system, so the DLine system needs to be looked at along with the rotation

Settle had Danielle Hunter and Wil Anderson on the outside on that defense, if the Bills had either one our defense be much better IMO. Poona I have no idea unless he just bad in practice and that's why was so far on our depth chart.