DLine Coaching

[Magox]

Here is what I know, Tim Settle and Poona Ford both were lackluster when they played here and then went on to the Texans and Chargers and then they played at above average levels.

 

I don’t know why that happened just that it did.

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

 

You don't take Aaron Donald or Chris Jones off the field either

 

Jones never played 85%. This year at 83% was the highest of his career. Most years he has been high 60s to mid 70s.

[colin]

Statistically this season we were better vs the run than the pass, quite a bit better in terms of EPA.  Part of it is our d generally stopped big runs (not vs bmore, lol) w the back end, kinda allowed medium runs via light boxes, and got near the top in the NFL in stuff's because of shooting gaps and what not.

 

Vs the pass we were pretty awful, and now where showed that more than 3rd downs.  I think our scheme has linemen running a lot more than most, so our linemen get tired.

 

I'm not really worried about all of that or the rotation or whatever.  I'm worried about how any high level O can just lean on what they want to do and do it at will to us.  In 21 and 22 when we had the 1 and 2 rates Ds in the NFL, the game splits were shocking.  Blowing out creampuffs, while getting just trucked a few times (Indy and ne when they ran the ball all over us, and every single playoff game vs a non terrible offense).

 

We need talent on D, but we need to not have giant holes either.  Given that our O had been a disgusting monster since 2020, and generally as good or better in the playoffs, I say build on strength, make the O out staple, and for the d I hope our FO can find a bit of flexibility to not lock the entire roster and scheme so narrowly so that we don't just totally capsize when benford or Milano or Johnson inevitably get injured.  Also, if we get more scheme diverse guys (basically it means they have speed size and ability rather than just whatever it is that MCD loves so much) then if they crap the bed for the 6th consecutive time in the playoffs and we fire the FO, we aren't left with some rage tag squad of Hamlin and Elam and rapp.

[JohnNord]

4 hours ago, JMM said:

1. Lack of talent

2. The insistence of rotating the lineman no matter how they are playing. 

The rotation makes a lot of sense in theory, in actuality I’m not so sure how well it works in Buffalo.  
 

IMO part of the problem is that there really isn’t an impact player on the DL.  Maybe Von back in 2022.  But if there’s a player you always have to worry about it makes life easier for others.  There’s no one or elevate the talent on the DL

[Ray Finkel]

Do they ever run a stunt or line up in different positions for a different look?

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Rousseau and Oliver played 70 to 80% of the snaps in most games.  It's not a 50/50 split and not that unusual around the league to rotate players in.

And we saw that the DL was gassed on that final drive against Baltimore.

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Jones never played 85%. This year at 83% was the highest of his career. Most years he has been high 60s to mid 70s.

What is the difference in their % between regular season and playoffs. 

 

Rotation at 60-70% in regular season gives the player to protect their body as well as give opportunity to the depth players. 

However, in the playoffs, it is always about making ONE play MORE than the other team or you go home.  The % should increase significantly for your play makers. 

[jahnyc]

Our assistant DL coach (Matt Edwards) is leaving the Bills to become the DL coach for the Jags.

[Big Blitz]

6 hours ago, colin said:

Statistically this season we were better vs the run than the pass, quite a bit better in terms of EPA.  Part of it is our d generally stopped big runs (not vs bmore, lol) w the back end, kinda allowed medium runs via light boxes, and got near the top in the NFL in stuff's because of shooting gaps and what not.

 

Vs the pass we were pretty awful, and now where showed that more than 3rd downs.  I think our scheme has linemen running a lot more than most, so our linemen get tired.

Dorian factor.  Must underrated player on this team.  Just not great in coverage.  

 

 

 

6 hours ago, colin said:

 

I'm not really worried about all of that or the rotation or whatever.  I'm worried about how any high level O can just lean on what they want to do and do it at will to us.  In 21 and 22 when we had the 1 and 2 rates Ds in the NFL, the game splits were shocking.  Blowing out creampuffs, while getting just trucked a few times (Indy and ne when they ran the ball all over us, and every single playoff game vs a non terrible offense).

 

We need talent on D, but we need to not have giant holes either.  Given that our O had been a disgusting monster since 2020, and generally as good or better in the playoffs, I say build on strength, make the O out staple, and for the d I hope our FO can find a bit of flexibility to not lock the entire roster and scheme so narrowly so that we don't just totally capsize when benford or Milano or Johnson inevitably get injured.  Also, if we get more scheme diverse guys (basically it means they have speed size and ability rather than just whatever it is that MCD loves so much) then if they crap the bed for the 6th consecutive time in the playoffs and we fire the FO, we aren't left with some rage tag squad of Hamlin and Elam and rapp.

 

Draft BPA.  Sick of forcing terrible picks based on need - Kincaid, Dwayne Carter, Boogie, AJ.  
 

Draft philosophy needs some tweaking.  

[Doc Brown]

6 hours ago, ganesh said:

And we saw that the DL was gassed on that final drive against Baltimore.

What is the difference in their % between regular season and playoffs. 

 

Rotation at 60-70% in regular season gives the player to protect their body as well as give opportunity to the depth players. 

However, in the playoffs, it is always about making ONE play MORE than the other team or you go home.  The % should increase significantly for your play makers. 

The reason they rotate is because the offensive line doesn't expend as much energy as the defensive line in a given play.  What good is a tired Miles Garrett against a fresher offensive tackle?  Ideally, in the playoffs you'd want your stud DT or DE to play around 70 to 80% of the snaps imo.  

[Philly McButterpants]

13 hours ago, Magox said:

Here is what I know, Tim Settle and Poona Ford both were lackluster when they played here and then went on to the Texans and Chargers and then they played at above average levels.

 

I don’t know why that happened just that it did.

Ford was a quality starter for the Seahawks for a few years.  He couldn't even get dressed for us last year.  

[nosejob]

8 hours ago, Ray Finkel said:

Do they ever run a stunt or line up in different positions for a different look?

Nope and that's the problem. It's still a McFrazier defense. Straight rush four hat on a hat and hope to get home.

 

Ever see Groot loop around behind Jones or Phillips etc. and ruin a play up the middle?  Or, remember when Lorax used to line up between the GD and Tackle?

He affected the play every time.

 

I remember KW saying once that at one point, ( can't remember the line coach at the time), but he said they were allowed to try different things.

Looks like McD is stuck in his ways and ain't gonna change.

[Don Otreply]

16 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I will do the numbers for this year at some point but last year the Bills were smack bang in the middle for season long (regular and post season) DL rotation rates among playoff teams. 

I suspect D line success isn’t just about rotation percentage, but more so which players are being used and when, just a thought, 

[Don Otreply]

14 hours ago, Maine-iac said:

For a while I was thinking pass rush was a big problem.  Not that I all of a sudden thought our pass rush was perfect but by the end of the season I was more of the mindset that our coverage gave up quick easy throws and often the coverage was bad enough those easy throws went for big gains.  I still think we don't have an end that routinely blows by his man and we don't have a DT who is legitimately a problem but our front 4 can bring some pressure.  We just don't usually hold up in coverage.  At least not in an all 4 downs meaningful way.  I'll be the first to admit this is purely from watching the games.  I'm not crunching numbers to get this.  If there are numbers I'd be interested to see what they say.

I have been thinking the same thing about coverage, it gives the appearance that they have been giving up easy passes with some regularity, it’s what I think our soft zone D is giving up too frequently, but I’m just a fan soooo…, 

[Don Otreply]

14 hours ago, Magox said:

Here is what I know, Tim Settle and Poona Ford both were lackluster when they played here and then went on to the Texans and Chargers and then they played at above average levels.

 

I don’t know why that happened just that it did.

They were doing what they were coached to do, 

it’s that way for all the D line guys, our coaches don’t feel that having a guy rush the QB balls out frequently is a good idea within their scheme, It’s much the same in concept with our soft coverage that gives up easy catches with some regularity, it’s the scheme not keeping up with what opposing offenses are doing throughout a game, jmo. 

Edited Monday at 02:06 PM by Don Otreply

[BillsFan130]

17 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I will do the numbers for this year at some point but last year the Bills were smack bang in the middle for season long (regular and post season) DL rotation rates among playoff teams. 

The issue for me personally isn't necessarily the quantity- It's "when" they rotate.

 

Ravens game for example- When they scored that final TD, bills had Solomon, Jefferson and Epenasa out there.

And this was 2 plays after coming out of a 2 minute warning, so it's not like the starters were gassed or anything .

 

To me that's pretty indefensible- Crunch time coming out of a two minute warning and you have your backup D line in 

Edited Monday at 02:42 PM by BillsFan130

[Jerboski]

The scheme is trash 

 

Sean won’t change though 

[nuklz2594]

we have a bottom tier and btw one of smallest dlines in entire nfl. need wide body thumpers at dt. 

[Logic]

I could be wrong -- and I'm happy to be corrected if someone can verify that I am -- but I feel like our d-line is way too vanilla in its rush scheme the vast majority of the time. That is: loops, stunts, games, etc.....we don't seem to do them at nearly the clip that other good defenses do.

If you wanna be a "get home with your front four and not rely on the blitz" team, fine, but then you'd better have a darn good front four, and you'd better at least let those four do some different things up front in terms of how they rush. The Bills neither have a great front four NOR employ them very creatively most of the time.

Also, not directly on topic, but a side note: The Bills defense is generally awful at blitzing. So often, when the Bills DO blitz in key moments, it's awkward and ineffective and rarely seems to get home in a meaningful way. Watching Spags employ killer blitzes at key moments in the playoffs, knowing that we NEVER seem to be able to do it, is wildly frustrating. You're telling me Spags is THAT much of a superior defensive mind to Sean McDermott? You're telling me McDermott doesn't have any killer blitzes of his own in his ol' bag of tricks?

 

[bigK14094]

16 hours ago, Magox said:

Here is what I know, Tim Settle and Poona Ford both were lackluster when they played here and then went on to the Texans and Chargers and then they played at above average levels.

 

I don’t know why that happened just that it did.

Yes, I noticed that too.  Perhaps the DL is forced into scheme moves that don't fit these players talent.  something is wrong here.  We need to put square pegs into square holes or something like that.

[HoofHearted]

13 hours ago, Ray Finkel said:

Do they ever run a stunt or line up in different positions for a different look?

Yes.