DLine Coaching

[Lothar]

Marcus West only got promoted last year after former DL coach Washington left for the Bears so maybe this past year gets a pass. Besides special teams, this is the one area of the coaching staff that feels like a weakness. Even the better free agents we sign underperform while here. And then they look good when they leave (Poona Ford). Something about our scheme is amiss.

 

Maybe it's because we don't let our best lineman play upwards of 70 percent of snaps? Maybe it's a position we just draft poorly? If so, it makes sense to trade a high pick or 2 for a difference maker. Or start looking for better coaching. Imagine we get someone to help out D line the easy Kromer helped the OL.

Edited 2 hours ago by Lothar

[JMM]

1. Lack of talent

2. The insistence of rotating the lineman no matter how they are playing. 

[Kelly to Allen]

9 minutes ago, Lothar said:

Marcus West only got promoted last year after former DL coach Washington left for the Bears so maybe this past year gets a pass. Besides special teams, this is the one area of the coaching staff that feels like a weakness. Even the better free agents we sign underperform while here. And then they look good when they leave (Poona Ford). Something about our scheme is amiss.

 

Maybe it's because we don't let our best lineman play upwards of 70 percent of snaps? Maybe it's a position we just draft poorly? If so, it makes sense to trade a high pick or 2 for a difference maker. Or start looking for better checking. Imagine we get someone to help out D line the easy Kromer helped the OL.

 

The front office needs to step back and look holistically at everything in a very methodical manner. It's not working. And the pass rush is actually regressing despite immense resources poured into the dline. It's the number 1 problem in this Allen era

 

Lots of self scouting and questions. Technique, coaching in general, archetype philosophy, etc etc 

6 minutes ago, JMM said:

1. Lack of talent

2. The insistence of rotating the lineman no matter how they are playing. 

 

Yup the top 4 dline players need to play 80% -85% of the snaps. Basically If a guy needs a breather, that's the rotation. Not 50/50 splits. It's self inflicted regression and dumb. Imagine Bruce Smith and Bennett only playing 60%. It's really really dumb. You also waste resource allocation for the rest of the roster. 

 

And no cover 1, it's not about " oh everyone rotates, you just hate McDermott....".

 

Ummm no, everyone doesn't rotate at our ridiculous percentages 

Edited 2 hours ago by Kelly to Allen

[Augie]

Win the trenches and the game gets a lot easier everywhere else. 

 

Kromer seems to have talent and they even have depth. Is that just resources spent (it doesn’t feel that way) or is it coaching? I have no clue about what the best path is, but we need to get both lines right. 

 

 

.

Edited 2 hours ago by Augie

[BillsFan130]

14 minutes ago, JMM said:

1. Lack of talent

2. The insistence of rotating the lineman no matter how they are playing. 

I don't know how many times I saw guys like Casey Toohill or Quinton Jefferson playing crucial red zone snaps on the FIRST drive lol.

 

Beyond frustrating 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

. 

 

And no cover 1, it's not about " oh everyone rotates, you just hate McDermott....".

 

Ummm no, everyone doesn't rotate at our ridiculous percentages 

 

I will do the numbers for this year at some point but last year the Bills were smack bang in the middle for season long (regular and post season) DL rotation rates among playoff teams. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

28 minutes ago, Lothar said:

Marcus West only got promoted last year after former DL coach Washington left for the Bears so maybe this past year gets a pass. Besides special teams, this is the one area of the coaching staff that feels like a weakness. Even the better free agents we sign underperform while here. And then they look good when they leave (Poona Ford). Something about our scheme is amiss.

 

Maybe it's because we don't let our best lineman play upwards of 70 percent of snaps? Maybe it's a position we just draft poorly? If so, it makes sense to trade a high pick or 2 for a difference maker. Or start looking for better coaching. Imagine we get someone to help out D line the easy Kromer helped the OL.

You kinda defeated your own premise here.

 

You state it may be a coaching or scheme issue and that we don't play our better linemen enough ...but also want to drop a high pick or two to drop into a defense where they won't get the coaching or be used enough to make a difference.

 

Also, when Ford was here Washington was the DL coach. Don't really know what West could do with the lack of talent we had. 

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I will do the numbers for this year at some point but last year the Bills were smack bang in the middle for season long (regular and post season) DL rotation rates among playoff teams. 

I don't think the average fan understands what the Bills do is typically accurate with what the league does and that is where some of these weird narratives come from.

 

My favorite hits:

-They rotate DL too much

-McD is too conservative 

-McD refuses to play rookies 

-Buffalo has way too many players devoted to STs.

[Doc Brown]

31 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

Yup the top 4 dline players need to play 80% -85% of the snaps. Basically If a guy needs a breather, that's the rotation. Not 50/50 splits. It's self inflicted regression and dumb. Imagine Bruce Smith and Bennett only playing 60%. It's really really dumb. You also waste resource allocation for the rest of the roster. 

Rousseau and Oliver played 70 to 80% of the snaps in most games.  It's not a 50/50 split and not that unusual around the league to rotate players in.

[Kelly to Allen]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I will do the numbers for this year at some point but last year the Bills were smack bang in the middle for season long (regular and post season) DL rotation rates among playoff teams. 

 

Yes. And that's gotta stop. Taking Rousseau and Oliver off the field is dumb 

7 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Rousseau and Oliver played 70 to 80% of the snaps in most games.  It's not a 50/50 split and not that unusual around the league to rotate players in.

 

Rousseau played 71% of the snaps this year. A career high. 

 

Oliver was 66% 

 

Both were much lower in years past. 

 

Oliver was 73% last year.

 

Both need to be over 85% 

 

This is ridiculous 

Edited 2 hours ago by Kelly to Allen

[Augie]

14 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

Yes. And that's gotta stop. Taking Rousseau and Oliver off the field is dumb 

 

Rousseau played 71% of the snaps this year. A career high. 

 

Oliver was 66% 

 

Both were much lower in years past. 

 

Oliver was 73% last year.

 

Both need to be over 85% 

 

This is ridiculous 

 

I’m not shooting for a specific number or trying to use anyone more than we have to.  But I would love to have the top guys healthy and fresh for the playoffs. 

[Kelly to Allen]

Just now, Augie said:

 

I’m not shooting for a specific number or trying to use anyone more than we have to.  But I would love to have the top guys healthy and fresh for the playoffs. 

 

Solid point. 

 

I just don't think it's a wise philosophy unless you have 7-8 legit studs up front similar to the 92-93 Dallas cowboys. 

 

I don't see that type of dline at All. 

 

It is the biggest failure of beane. It has cost them multiple super bowls imo and that's sad. 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

31 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

Yes. And that's gotta stop. Taking Rousseau and Oliver off the field is dumb 

 

Rousseau played 71% of the snaps this year. A career high. 

 

Oliver was 66% 

 

Both were much lower in years past. 

 

Oliver was 73% last year.

 

Both need to be over 85% 

 

This is ridiculous 

 

Oliver did miss basically two and a half games. One injured (think v Texans?), week 18, and almost all the 2nd half of week 17 when they sat him early. That is why his snap % went down. 

 

I disagree on both being over 85%. You have to keep Dlinemen fresh.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, BillsFan130 said:

I don't know how many times I saw guys like Casey Toohill or Quinton Jefferson playing crucial red zone snaps on the FIRST drive lol.

 

Beyond frustrating 

 

 

Sometimes I picture Sean pretending to be the Mandalorian saying " this is the way ".....🤣

 

In all seriousness,  McB doesn't have the chops to find great (not even elite) Dlineman.  So he's forced to rotate Jags for 4 quarters. I guarantee you this will continue till he's replaced, which at this point will be never.

[Kelly to Allen]

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Oliver did miss basically two and a half games. One injured (think v Texans?), week 18, and almost all the 2nd half of week 17 when they sat him early. That is why his snap % went down. 

 

I disagree on both being over 85%. You have to keep Dlinemen fresh.

 

We just disagree, which is fine. 

 

I'm not taking Bruce or Bennett off the field hypothetically. Unless it's a breather.

 

If your over arching philosophy is a rotation then you need 7 studs up front imo. 

 

If so, then beane needs 5 significant upgrades on the dline imo that can match Rousseau and Oliver 

 

4 minimum upgrades 

Edited 1 hour ago by Kelly to Allen

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

We just disagree, which is fine. 

 

I'm not taking Bruce or Bennett off the field hypothetically. Unless it's a breather.

 

If your over arching philosophy is a rotation then you need 7 studs up front imo. 

 

If so, then beane needs 5 significant upgrades on the dline imo that can match Rousseau and Oliver 

 

4 minimum upgrades 

 

The NFL of 1992 has zero relevance to today.

[Maine-iac]

For a while I was thinking pass rush was a big problem.  Not that I all of a sudden thought our pass rush was perfect but by the end of the season I was more of the mindset that our coverage gave up quick easy throws and often the coverage was bad enough those easy throws went for big gains.  I still think we don't have an end that routinely blows by his man and we don't have a DT who is legitimately a problem but our front 4 can bring some pressure.  We just don't usually hold up in coverage.  At least not in an all 4 downs meaningful way.  I'll be the first to admit this is purely from watching the games.  I'm not crunching numbers to get this.  If there are numbers I'd be interested to see what they say.

[Charles Romes]

Need to hire the Aaron Kromer of Dline coaching 

[Billzgobowlin]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

Win the trenches and the game gets a lot easier everywhere else. 

 

Kromer seems to have talent and they even have depth. Is that just resources spent (it doesn’t feel that way) or is it coaching? I have no clue about what the best path is, but we need to get both lines right. 

 

 

.

When Kromer left or O line fell apart.  It took him a year when he came back but it is coaching and making the players the best they can be.  I wish there was a D line coach that could work that line the way Kromer could the O line.  If we could we would have multiple Super Bowls, refs or not.

28 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The NFL of 1992 has zero relevance to today.

You don't take Aaron Donald or Chris Jones off the field either

[Brand J]

Only Von Miller has been given free reign to rush as he pleases and that was a couple seasons ago when he was still impactful. In fact, the DT next to him would move in counter to what Von decided to do - there was a breakdown on how this was working with Cover 1, I think. It’s not like that with any of these other players.
 

When Ed Oliver was drafted here, after some struggles he told the media he was having to adjust to making plays within the structure of the defense, he wasn’t allowed to freelance or attack however he wanted to. I guess at Houston he was given the green light like Von and succeeded that way (though he never put up huge sack numbers). I think the structure bogs some players down, when they’d rather just cut loose and rush however they want. I know Jordan Phillips likes to go out of structure too and if he doesn’t make a play he’ll ride the bench when that happens. Maybe they should just be unleashed.

[since79]

2 hours ago, JMM said:

1. Lack of talent

2. The insistence of rotating the lineman no matter how they are playing. 

2!!!!!