Is McD actually compensating for Beane?

[nedboy7]

47 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

How about if we level that playing field a bit? I can name a bunch of HCs that would kick ass and take names with Allen as their QB. He’s a cheat code. McDermott is an otherwise very good HC who is overly conservative and tight in big moments - and who lucked into an amazing QB. 

I think that’s a fair argument.  If the Bills fired McD and wanted to go another route I would understand.  I’m not sure if any of those coaches are guaranteed to beat the Chiefs regardless.  Seemed to me Mahomes outplayed Josh last week.  Perhaps you can find some blame with McD for his play.  Perhaps not.  There is absolutely fair reasons to be critical of McD. But this board in general isn’t really reasonable. 

[Kelly to Allen]

3 minutes ago, Ray Finkel said:

Take away Josh and this team is lucky to win 5 games

Same is true about kc. It's not an argument that if you take away a top 2 QB your team would be below avg. 

 

That's true for all teams with a great hof QB in NFL history. 

 

The difference is Buffalo needs a couple blue chip players. 

 

The ravens for example are an overrated roster imo

 

 

Edited Saturday at 02:53 PM by Kelly to Allen

[clearwater cadet]

Bills give high end momey to average talent.   Bills have always had to overpay for players, could be  enviroment , NYS taxes etc.  Same with Sabres.  Were always a pass rusher, corner, safety etc etc away and have pin our hopes on Hamlin type guy.

[transient]

I think McDermott runs a system on defense and Beane gets players for him to fit that system, and I believe that’s the direction that decision making follows. Beane’s major failing is that they haven’t drafted or signed someone who can consistently get pressure (was supposed to be Von), and they haven’t been able to find the second coming of Luke Kuechly (was supposed to be Edmunds), who made McDermott’s defense what it was in Carolina. Both are hard to find, and they’re the missing pieces that doom the Bills defense against elite teams. 
 

I agree with people who point out that the Bills too often look for position over bpa at the top of the draft, but I wonder how much of that is Beane and how much is at McDermott’s directive. Beane tends to do better in lower rounds, so it’s not like he and his scouts can’t identify talent, it’s more likely that there’s less combined decision making and more freedom. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

Beane saying we won't be that active in FA, then McDermott hinting he wants to be, makes me wonder if he is doubting Beanes drafting acumen as well?

[colin]

mcd gets guys to play super hard, want to play when medically they absolutely should not, and they all love playing for him.  he has a scheme on d that lives by taking away the deep ball.  the bills are always top of the top in stopping the deep ball.  

 

schematically, the old saying is a good dc will take away what you do best and make you beat them with something else.  when that best thing is deep passes, mcds d can make for a really long day for opponents (denver got one off vs us and then just floundered with the best d in the nfl barely keeping them in the game).

 

the problem is they are a one note band.  if you can attack something else, they will still take away the deep pass.  they are purpose built to stop the deep pass, and while capable of doing so with what at times is bottom 4 nfl talent in the secondary, there is a cost to play like this.  the biggest cost for us is particular scheme fit requirements for players (example: aj klien playing over dorian williams last year vs kc at home) that leaves us in a lurch if any of our small and not fast guys (who we have because they are a scheme fit) inevitably get hurt because we either don't have scheme fit back ups, or he can't trust them/build them up in time to fit.

 

this is mcds team.  he says what players he wants drafted and beane gets them.  beane is not great at getting them, and has made obvious and clear contract mistakes (extending von, i'll accept going for him in the first place, extending knox, extending diggs).  as i just said, those mistakes are extending the guys mcd has affinity for to contracts that exceed their value.  every time we let a guy test free agency, with the exception of edmunds who is a legit on paper monster talent, their contract ends up being a failure (phillips) or they come crawling back (poyer, aj).  he is too fixed in building his team his way that it just doesn't lead to value.

 

bellicheck was like that, except his scheme was predicated on big strong guys (get hurt less, when they are tired they are still big and strong, a little d gets slower, see our d at the end of games, or the atlanta loss to NE in the superbowl, their d was epically gassed), and he has enough wrinkles in his scheme to change it up for injury or for teams who don't prioritize throwing the ball deep.

 

mcd is better, potentially much better, at what he does than what beane does (he was a successful but not champion dc before, and he really does get this team that is not top 10 in talent, not top 16 outside of allen, to play as hard as they can).  the rub is similar to bellichek or parcels, he has a big influence on what the gm does (he hired him for crying out loud) so he owns this more than beane does.

 

the rams are a very purpose built team.  their hc is a better oc than mcd is dc, but he's also a one side of the ball guy.  they also really fall off hard with injuries as a team, like our d does (on o, allen is just so good he patches holes, if he went down we are done).  the difference is mcvey and their GM have identified what top talents they desire and shoot for the moon to get them, and overall have been way better at drafting impact guys (i think you can argue the bills have had really good success in later rounds with value picks).  i think that approach must be taken with our FO -- they did it with allen and diggs and it paid off huge (second diggs contract notwithstanding).  if they need a pass rush, go make that happen.  if they need an outside guy, make that happen.  no more of this half measure of drafting aj, groot, and boogie with your top 3 picks in 2 seasons to "solve" the pass rush, no more new rb in the 3rd or 2nd (or a trade like hines) every single year.

 

allen on the rams (if they did a rams move and traded goff and got him) and the rams win like 3 or maybe even more chips since then.  aaron donald, maybe ramsey, or puka or a couple of their top flight pass rushers on the bills, and we win 2 or 3.  we got the hardest part done w the qb, and now we have an OL and a run game, we need to go over the top.

[GoBills808]

12 hours ago, jkeerie said:

To me the biggest difference is KC has Chris Jones.  He's the difference maker that elevates the play of the entire KC defense.  The Bills have no one defensively that is a difference maker.  I would add that KC 's secondary this year had more talent than the Bill's secondary... especially with Benford and Rapp missing.

Chris Jones had five sacks this year. He had one tackle vs us

[Bermuda Triangle]

13 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

You can field a fringe SB contender with a bad roster if the QB is that good.

 

The Colts proved it going from 1st place SB contender with Peyton Manning.......to 2-14 when he missed the next season........and back to first place and SB contending the season after that when they drafted Andrew Luck with that 1st round pick obtained by going 2-14.  

 

 

Like Washington this year.

[jkeerie]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Chris Jones had five sacks this year. He had one tackle vs us

Stats don't measure his effectiveness.  He's a disruptor that demands attention from the offensive line.  This frees up other players to make plays.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, jkeerie said:

Stats don't measure his effectiveness.  He's a disruptor that demands attention from the offensive line.  This frees up other players to make plays.

He wasn't elite this year. Neither was Mahomes. And yet, here they are.

[FireChans]

37 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

He wasn't elite this year. Neither was Mahomes. And yet, here they are.

Chris Jones was a fraudulent first team All-Pro in 2024?

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Chris Jones was a fraudulent first team All-Pro in 2024?

He's an all time great player but he wasn't that good in 2024 and tbh the Chiefs defense wasn't either

 

I didn't understand it tbh

[Bermuda Triangle]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

He's an all time great player but he wasn't that good in 2024 and tbh the Chiefs defense wasn't either

 

I didn't understand it tbh

Aside from the Broncos in Week 17 and probably the Panthers, I wonder how many teams scored more than their average PPG against the Chiefs this year.

[BillsFan130]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

He's an all time great player but he wasn't that good in 2024 and tbh the Chiefs defense wasn't either

 

I didn't understand it tbh

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/41040723/2024-nfl-win-rates-top-teams-players-rankings

 

Chris jones was number 1 in pass rush win rate from DTs. I heard a lot from chiefs podcast , and they said the sacks don't come close to telling the story for him , as he was a beast all year 

Edited Saturday at 05:17 PM by BillsFan130

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/41040723/2024-nfl-win-rates-top-teams-players-rankings

 

Chris jones was number 1 in pass rush win rate from DTs. I heard a lot from chiefs podcast , and they said the stats don't come close to telling the story for him , as he was a beast all year 

I mean he is a beast...he's Chris Jones

 

I'm saying I didn't see him play at an elite level this season and I watched a lot of Chiefs games. And imo the passrush win rate is kind of like Mahomes' success rate in his kinda mid season. Their guys aren't necessarily playing better, the Chiefs are just smarter.

[Allen2Moulds]

Yes and no. I mean some is McDermott, and some is Allen, but if there is someone that needs to step up the most out of the 3, it would need to be Beane. Beane is excellent at drafting quality players, but is lacking of the upper tier/difference makers. Drafted Coleman......c'mon Beane, you say you are antsy and aggressive during the draft. Where was that when KC jumped you, and stuck you with Elam?

Or this year when Thomas slipped all the way to 23, and you didn't go get him?

Many of us on this board saw it. And seemed like it was a perfect match with Allen. Coleman was a head scratcher and still is. Kincaid was also a headscratcher, given what Knox was being paid. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

I mean he is a beast...he's Chris Jones

 

I'm saying I didn't see him play at an elite level this season and I watched a lot of Chiefs games. And imo the passrush win rate is kind of like Mahomes' success rate in his kinda mid season. Their guys aren't necessarily playing better, the Chiefs are just smarter.

That’s very fair as someone who watched a lot of Chiefs games as well. They honestly played like they were taking a significant amount of snaps off across the board. 

 

but interior pass rushers took a real step back as a group in 2024 tbh. No AD. The usual suspects like Jeffrey Simmons, Quinnen Williams, Dexter Lawrence etc were all either on dog ***** defenses or hurt or just saw their level of play drop. 
 

Lawrence was actually pretty good statistically but his team and defense was so bad I kinda get why he didn’t get a nod.

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Chris Jones had five sacks this year. He had one tackle vs us

He still has to be accounted for which frees up others to make plays. 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

 
 

that was a grotesquely obvious tanking 

 

Yep, but not because the players weren't trying to win or the coaches were intentionally preparing to lose.  

 

It was done simply by playing a bad QB every week against a first place schedule.

 

And also remember that it was a league much more bereft of QB talent than it is today......it was easier to eek out a few victories with a horrible QB back then.

 

Those Colts simply had a bad roster and having a middling QB instead of bad one's weren't going to get them to .500.

 

These 2024 Bills with a "Fitz" level QB instead of Josh Allen would have maybe been a 7-8 win, sub .500 team.

 

The post I was responding to tried to give the Bills credit for winning 15 games but they don't come anywhere close to 13 in the regular season without Allen and therefore don't get a chance to win 2 more in the playoffs.  

 

The Dolphins would have won the division in this scenario because they were effective with Tua on the field.  Because he is well above average when healthy. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

That’s very fair as someone who watched a lot of Chiefs games as well. They honestly played like they were taking a significant amount of snaps off across the board. 

 

but interior pass rushers took a real step back as a group in 2024 tbh. No AD. The usual suspects like Jeffrey Simmons, Quinnen Williams, Dexter Lawrence etc were all either on dog ***** defenses or hurt or just saw their level of play drop. 
 

Lawrence was actually pretty good statistically but his team and defense was so bad I kinda get why he didn’t get a nod.

 

 

There was a big influx of talented DT's that entered the league between the Chris Jones thru Dexter Lawrence draft years and it seems like there have consistently been a few less studs entering the league each year since.   A lot of those guys you mentioned are just past their athletic primes now so I suspect that's why the drop off.

 

Williams and Simmons, for instance, clearly aren't as good as they were at their peak.   Christian Wilkins went from the most active DT in the game to vanishing/injured in Las Vegas.  Ed Oliver had a good season in 2024 and was excellent in the playoffs but a lesser regular season than the year prior for certain.

 

This draft class is very deep in HUGE, athletic DT's.  But they've maybe never been harder to project.   The talent is spread out more, which is probably a product of NIL money.   A lot ended up on teams where they weren't used like they will be in the pro's.   And it was a weird year in college football with the ground and pound teams like Alabama, Georgia and Michigan having down years so not getting to see the top DT's square off in as many big games where the tape projects well to what they will do in the pro's.