Is McD actually compensating for Beane?

[Kelly to Allen]

It's a good team with a good coach and gm. They have a great QB. We probably have around 10 years to get a few super bowls as Allen enters his prime.

 

I think the defense especially at corner and dline is going to get an infusion of talent from the draft. 

 

With 10 picks you could honestly see 8 go to defense 

 

Something like 

 

3 dline 

1 linebacker 

3 CBS

1 safety 

 

If they have a good craft, they should be great position for an all time year. Especially with 3-4 really good fa signings and both coordinators back etc. 

 

The organization is in a great spot and fans including myself are just frustrated. 

 

My fa wish list is

 

Dj Reed  cb

Holland S

Pat Jones de

Charles omenihu de

Elijah Moore wr

Van Jefferson wr 

 

Resign 

 

Smoot

Hollins 

Ty Johnson 

Will clapp

A. Johnson 

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 07:00 AM by Kelly to Allen

[78thealltimegreat]

Since 2020 the Bills have lost two games by double digits two. That’s unbelievable. 
McDermott is a really really good coach

Beane is a good GM in terms of getting solid players.

i would say Beane is more the problem as other then Josh and now James Cook who is the difference maker he has drafted on defense?

 

[Kelly to Allen]

Trade this years 1 and next year's 1 plus Epenesa for Micah Parsons

 

M. Parsons/ P. Jones / J. Solomon 

E. Oliver/ D. Carter/ Rookie 

D. Jones/ Rookie/ A. Johnson / Logue

G. Rousseau/ C. Omenihu/ Rookie / Smoot

 

Bernard/ Rookie/ Andressen/ Spector

Milano/ Williams/ Ulofoshio/ 

 

Benford/ Rookie/ Ingram 

Dj Reed/ Rookie/ Codrington

T. Johnson/ Rookie/ Hardy

Holland/ Rapp/ Lewis 

Bishop/ Rookie 

 

Elam traded for a 7th in 2075

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 07:25 AM by Kelly to Allen

[stinky finger]

4 hours ago, Breakout Squad said:

I still support McDermott. We’re lucky to have him. Losing to the Chiefs in the AFC Championship shouldn’t be held against him. No one beats the Chiefs…except the BILLS in the regular reason 🤷

And you’re satisfied with that?

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

You can field a fringe SB contender with a bad roster if the QB is that good.

 

The Colts proved it going from 1st place SB contender with Peyton Manning.......to 2-14 when he missed the next season........and back to first place and SB contending the season after that when they drafted Andrew Luck with that 1st round pick obtained by going 2-14.  

 

 

 

This is true albeit the Colts went 10-6; 2-14; 11-5. 

 

That said they went from Manning to getting Kerry Collins out of retirement and a 6th rounder Curtis Painter (who never played in the NFL again) to Luck. If that Colts team had Fitzpatrick or Tyrod level play in 2011 it would have won 6 or 7 games minimum. They didn't want to win that many. Indeed when they put Orlovsky in the last five games they went 2-3 beating two teams still in the playoff race.

4 hours ago, stinky finger said:

And you’re satisfied with that?

 

You can both not be satisfied with that and not want to blow it up.

4 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

My fa wish list is

 

Dj Reed  cb

Holland S

Pat Jones de

Charles omenihu de

Elijah Moore wr

 

 

If the Bills only sign one free agent this offseason it should be Jevon Holland. He would be a huge safety upgrade.

[Coach Tuesday]

I think it’s somewhat more complicated (as it almost always is).

 

Beane hasn’t hit enough home runs for sure.  But part of that is because they tend to take an insecure approach toward player acquisition where they prioritize football character over other traits - such as talent and speed. They draft and sign players as though they’re not confident in their ability to fully coach them up - high floor/lower ceiling.  Mack Hollins, Taiwan Jones, it’s fine to have a few guys like this but the Bills under this regime seem addicted to them - they overrate the “coach on the field” quality.  Rightly or wrongly George Pickens was off their board.  They don’t draft guys like that (or at least grade them much lower).  McD has shown he can coach players up, they’ve got a great leadership structure and a cohesive locker room - the time to take some risks on talent is long overdue IMO and that’s as much a McDermott insecurity thing as it is Beane’s crappy player evals.

Edited Saturday at 12:19 PM by Coach Tuesday

[Mikie2times]

9 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

I think OP knows, as we all do, that this roster and staff is built in McDermott's image

Which then poses the question of just how much of these defensive picks fall on McD? We can really never know with this pairing. We know Beane looks for players who fit his system. But is McD outright moving the needle on the selections? I have attacked the scheme for a long time and my feelings in that regard haven’t really changed. But at the same time I’m shockingly underwhelmed with the construction of this defense. Further, as many point out, it’s not from a lack of investment.
 

Shifting to the offense, while the offensive line construction, RB, and QB have been elite, that would be about it. TE has been very high in investment and has not delivered at the rate you would expect. WR has been a crap show outside Shakir. From a talent perspective this team looks similar to the drought era and worse in some regards (specifically outside QB, RB, and OL). Given the success that has to speak to Allen’s impact which we know is immense, but the defense in the regular season has been pretty good.

 

Landing on the exact sauce with all this is rather complicated. But I’m starting to consider some different angles outside McD just crapping himself in the playoffs. Perhaps he’s  sharting a bit and the real defecation  is coming from the roster.  

[SCBills]

I think they’re so intertwined that I’m not sure what the correct answer is.

 

We constantly have issues with being undersized, and that seems to be due to McDermott wanting a gap shooting/penetrating DL, while at the same time wanting to play base Nickel and have undersized linebackers.

 

At some point we have to look at the philosophy as to why this defense A) Deals with so many injuries end of season and B) Gets shredded by QB’s who don’t make mistakes.

 

It all starts with the DL, but the entire Front 7 is built in a way that reflects what McDermott wants. 
 

On Offense, we’re lucky to have Josh Allen and Aaron Kromer.  With those two, we have far more margin for error on that side of the ball. 

[LarryMadman]

I think it's simple, Beane gets the players McDermott wants.

 

There is no way Beane just gets players and says here you go Sean make it work, that doesnt happen.

[Charles Romes]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

You can field a fringe SB contender with a bad roster if the QB is that good.

 

The Colts proved it going from 1st place SB contender with Peyton Manning.......to 2-14 when he missed the next season........and back to first place and SB contending the season after that when they drafted Andrew Luck with that 1st round pick obtained by going 2-14.  

 

 

 
 

that was a grotesquely obvious tanking 

[gjv]

I certainly am not an expert on NFL talent or roster building. However, that being said, judging by player rankings, I sense that the Bills defense has one, maybe two, players that could start for either KC or Baltimore. Which leads me to believe that any success the Bills defense has had is primarily due to scheme and excellent coaching.

Edited Saturday at 01:45 PM by gjv

[Mikie2times]

16 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I think they’re so intertwined that I’m not sure what the correct answer is.

 

We constantly have issues with being undersized, and that seems to be due to McDermott wanting a gap shooting/penetrating DL, while at the same time wanting to play base Nickel and have undersized linebackers.

 

At some point we have to look at the philosophy as to why this defense A) Deals with so many injuries end of season and B) Gets shredded by QB’s who don’t make mistakes.

 

It all starts with the DL, but the entire Front 7 is built in a way that reflects what McDermott wants. 
 

On Offense, we’re lucky to have Josh Allen and Aaron Kromer.  With those two, we have far more margin for error on that side of the ball. 

I’m starting to think the one tech DT in this system is one of the most critical roles we have. 

[MJS]

I think the player talent is overrated by Bills fans. The Bills have a legitimately great oline. Basically every other player is not as good as Bills fans think they are. A few are better than Bills fans think, though.

[BarleyNY]

10 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

Show me the coach doing better than McD other than the walrus over the last 5 seasons.  Bruce Ariens?  Get a grip on McD sucks narrative.  
good post Mikey. Like the discussion.  

How about if we level that playing field a bit? I can name a bunch of HCs that would kick ass and take names with Allen as their QB. He’s a cheat code. McDermott is an otherwise very good HC who is overly conservative and tight in big moments - and who lucked into an amazing QB. 

[ProcessTruster]

12 hours ago, Success said:

I feel like we keep looking for blame, because it's so frustrating.

 

But it might just be that McD is just not quite as good as Reid, and Beane is not quite as good as Veach.  And Reid & Veach are almost inarguably the 2 best in the game.

 

 

Pretty much.   and I'm good with it for now.   

 

15-4 WL record.  Winning 70% of games for 5+ years. 

 

Come on, Enjoy the ride, beeeaaaatches.  

[Don Otreply]

11 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

I think we like to pick talent OR coaching to the reason why we can't get over the hump.

 

In reality to me it's both.

 

The bills front 4 doesn't disrupt enough in the playoffs.

 

But at the same time I think part of the reason we do well in the regular season and flame out in the playoffs on defence, is because of adjustments.

 

Bills played a high percentage of man the first time they played the chiefs. Which I think caught Andy off guard a bit as usually they play zone.

 

The Bills continued to play man a lot in the playoffs- Andy was ready for it and dialled up man beaters all game long 

 

 

Agree, Like it or not, the Defenses soft zone gives away easy yards frequently, and can’t get off the field on 3rd down on a regular basis, which hurts the entire team especially in the postseason, and our nemesis KC takes advantage of this,  again like it or not, adjustments don’t happen quickly enough, or are not executed by the players particularly well.  That is what needs to change. 
 

I give Sean all the credit in the world for turning this team into a competitive playoff contender annually, that can’t be mentioned enough, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

[NORWOODS FOOT]

10 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

You are great evaluation of talent.   Who do you like this year?

Here is the little bit of e v a l I’ve done this year just by watching games:
 

Watched a lot of Ohio State this year. From that team:

 

OL - Donavon Jackson, Ohio State

 

Great guard. Swung out to OT due to injury and crushed it against top competition. If he tests well at the combine I think he is one of the best players in the draft. Period. Doesn’t mean he is going top 10. Means that wherever he goes, in a few years we will look back and see that he could have gone anywhere due to his high level performance in the NFL.

 

WR - EMEKA EGBUKA, Ohio State

 

Very high floor. Plus level athleticism and character traits. High intelligence. Is he a true number 1? I don’t know. Is he a can’t miss prospect? Absolutely. Was always overshadowed by JSN, MHjr, and Jeremiah Smith. Yet he ended his time at OSU as the all time leader in receptions. Would love him in BUF.

 

DE Jack Sawyer / JT Tuimoloau, Ohio State

 

Sawyer is probably going to go higher, but I’d be happy with either at the end of round 1 or especially in round 2. Both have great size, athleticism, character, etc. If Sawyer can continue the growth he showed during the playoffs I think he can be a top 20 DE in the league. Again, these guys may not blow up, but both are high floor, great teammate guys in my opinion. 
 

BONUS:

 

DE Michael Green, Marshall

 

DT Alfred Collins, Texas

 

Both of these players flashed in their games against Ohio State, thus against top talent. Let’s see what these guys do at the Senior Bowl / combine and if they have good character and a commitment to improve. If so, I’d be happy with either of them being on the roster.

Edited Saturday at 02:19 PM by NORWOODS FOOT

[finn]

Good thread. The answer could be a blend of two or more of the four options you lay out. McDermott and his staff might be excellent at developing players but less good, maybe even below average, at game-day preparation and management. So they develop a sixth-round cornerback into an All-Pro quality player but are surprised by Mahomes running the ball every other play. They build one of the best offensive lines in football but don't prepare them for a team that stuffs their most successful plays. So McD could be excellent at one aspect of his job and mediocre at another.

 

Same with Beane and his people. He finds gems in late rounds and free agency, but he whiffs a lot, especially in the critical early rounds. His record in both areas is arguably better than most teams--impressive considering he's drafting so late--but he's falling behind teams his main competition: KC, Baltimore, Philly, and Detroit, all of which are somehow are finding and keeping better rosters. 

 

I mean, we were upset that only Allen and Dawkins were named to the Pro Bowl, but who else should have gone? Benford, Brown, Cook, and....? Take off the rose-colored glasses and look candidly at the Bills' roster. Aside from these five excellent players, you see few very good ones and otherwise a whole lot of "adequate" or worse: Kincaid, Knox, Coleman, Samuels, Cooper, Hamlin, Douglas, Rapp, Epenesa, Jones, Miller, and Bass.

 

On the other hand, he was a magician finding Douglas and Floyd last year, and Cooper and Hollins (both for cheap) this year, when he was in salary cap hell because of prima donna Diggs. And if Miller hadn't been injured, the Bills might have won a Super Bowl by now. 

 

In short, I would argue that McDermott is elite in developing players and a winning culture, but he is a grade below his best peers at game-day prep and management. And Beane is one of the best in the league at drafting and free agency, but he is not as good (or lucky) as Veach, Roseman, DeCosta (Baltimore's GM) and Brad Jones (Lions). 

[BuffaloBillyG]

12 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I didn't say we have zero talent 

 

We don't have supreme talents 

 

We don't have two or three Hall of Fame players who are in their prime 

 

We have more talent than 80% of the league... But we don't have a lot of super high end talent talent 

 

We have a lot of good to really good

 

And I'm pretty sure if you read what I said I'm saying Sean McDermott is a really good coach who maximizes what we have not that he's doing less with more 

 

He's a world-class developer who isn't getting enough to develop

 

 

 

 

I feel like the strength of the roster is in it's depth. Like we have a better roster in spots 25-53 than most other teams.  It's the top end of the roster players that are good, just not great. Aside from Allen, Cook and (debatable) our OT spots, we don't have guys that are a force week in and week out. No game wreckers on defense. 

 

This falls in line with Beane's drafting success/failures. It's his top round misses that should be impact players. Blue chip guys at premium positions. But he's hit well on the back end of drafts with players that need time/development to fill depth spots. It also contrasts the philosophy between Beane and Veach in drafting. The Chiefs seem to target guys that are a bit more pro ready where the Bills like those guys from smaller schools that "could" develop into stars. In the past few years Buffalo and Kansas City have fished from the same positional pond. The Chiefs came away with McDuffie and Worthy. The Bills came away with Elam and Coleman. 

 

I think also when comparing the philosophy of the teams, you have not only Reid, but Spags, Nagy, and Toub as the coordinaters. Toub is regarded as one of the top ST coaches in the league. Both Spags and Nagy are former HCs that failed in that role but gained more experience. We promote first time coordinators from within, keep a ST coach that is clearly in over his head.

 

I think McDermott gets the most out of players. He gets them to buy in to the whole "be yourself with us" best version of yourself idea. But the guy struggles to assemble a viable coaching staff that can turn those diamonds in the rough guys that Beane likes to draft into anything but depth players more times than not.

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 02:14 PM by BuffaloBillyG

[Ray Finkel]

12 hours ago, Wizard said:

Answer:

 

1. The Bills have a top 2 QB that covers a lot of weaknesses 

 

2. We finally have an above average running game

 

3. Consistency with our OL coupled with investing in it and a lack of injuries has given Buffalo a solid offensive line.

 

4. The Bills are an opportunistic defense. The coaches maximize the CB/Safety talent, but as a whole, there is not a lot of talent.

 

5. We have pretty good LB's, but the undersized 2 LB scheme does not usually help our pash rush, run defense, or pass coverage as much as we need.

 

6. The front office has generally drafted poorly on the DL, or in their developing, trading, or FA the last 7 years.

 

7. The Bills have done a  bad job in maximizing the WR room. Sure, Diggs was great but a headcase. Shakir was a hit. Cooper and Samuel significantly underperformed thus far, and Coleman has potential but so far is umproven.

 

8. Beane and McDermott get too much credit for the Bills overall success of wins. That belongs to Allen's talent, the OL, and finally a running game, and a division that gives us 4-5 wins fair easily. Remember, McDermott is the defensive guy.

 

9. Beane and McDermott do not get enough credit for improving the culture, consistency, and continuity of Buffalo becoming a playoff caliber/above average team.

 

Bottom line is Bills are a top 4-10 team each year. They overachieve, and kudos for that.

 

Rosterwise, the team is a top 12-16 roster as it relates to talent.

 

QB-A

OL-A-

RB-B+

WR-C

TE-C

ST-C-

DL-D+

LB-C+

CB-B

S-C

 

Coaching: McDermott is likeable. He is good. He may get us a ring. The challenge is he may be too good to replace, but he may not good enough to get us over the hump.

 

 

 

Take away Josh and this team is lucky to win 5 games