PERSPECTIVE: # of teams with a brand new play calling Coordinator to win a Lombardi

[transplantbillsfan]

Here's the comfort I take in this right now: Buffalo had 2 brand new coordinators to the team (both pretty young and one of whom has NEVER called plays at all) who were actual play callers (not coordinators only in name the way Matt Nagy is in Kansas City) and we were 3 points away from the Super Bowl.

 

I don't believe in the history of the NFL(certainly not in the "modern" era) any team in this situation has ever won a Super Bowl.  Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but since 2000 I believe Dan Quinn with the Seahawks is the only brand new play calling coordinator to a team who won a Super Bowl.  The Eagles have a shot to do it this year with Kellen Moore and Vic Fangio... but let's be honest, we know the Chiefs are winning and Fangio is a Football lifer who probably doesn't count.

 

And other than Moore and Quinn (and Fangio if you want to count him), I don't even think you can find many (if any) instances of a brand new coordinator and play caller making the Super Bowl.

 

Throughout history you could get to teams like the 49ers with Shanahan & Holmgren, but we all know Walsh was the play caller.

 

Now, the Eagles recently both won and lost 2 separate Super Bowls with a 2nd year coordinator in Frank Reich and Shane Steichen.  In Reich's 2nd year he won it.

 

We got outcoached against KC, but pinning it on McDermott is unfair considering he's consistently said throughout the year that Brady and Babbich are the play callers and he trusts them.  I loved his decisions to go for it on 4th downs, but wished we mixed up the play calling a bit.  That's on Brady.

 

During the offseason I think both Brady and Babbich are guys who are driven enough to learn from this season and improve a lot.  And before the cynics come in with anything like "yeah, they sure need to!" let's remember the expectations for this team before coming into the season (except I thought we would overachieve those expectations... thanks again for pointing that out @FireChans ) and the fact that Brady is probably the 1st or 2nd biggest reason (Allen is obviously the other) this team had a historically awesome offensive year.  And although our D underwhelmed in a lot of ways, they led the NFL in taking the ball away.

 

Based on Beane's and McDermott's presser yesterday, I think they're gonna actively pursue a game changer on Defense (Crosby...???) and with the growth of both Coordinators, next year could actually be the year... hopefully...

 

Go Bills!!!!

Edited Friday at 10:08 PM by transplantbillsfan

[Trogdor]

Buffalo has 1 brand new coordinator, what are you talking about? Also, McD hired them, who should be blamed? 

[BADOLBILZ]

Brady was a 4th year play caller in the NFL this season.   Babich was new but his HC was the DC the year before so it wasn't like he was flying without a net.

 

Yes they were grossly out-experienced by the Chiefs staff,  who also had a bye week to work on plan for Buffalo/Baltimore matchups.

 

A first time OC hasn't actually won a SB since Mike Holmgren with the 49ers back in the 80's.

 

Ken Dorsey had a chance to break that streak before Allen's GF drama killed that season a week before Chiefs week.   Otherwise the Bills haven't had a first time play calling OC since Anthony Lynn and you have to go back to the Jauron era before that for a first time play caller.

[T master]

23 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Here's the comfort I take in this right now: Buffalo had 2 brand new coordinators (both pretty young and one of whom has NEVER called plays at all) who were actual play callers (not coordinators only in name the way Matt Nagy is in Kansas City) and we were 3 points away from the Super Bowl.

 

I don't believe in the history of the NFL(certainly not in the "modern" era) any team in this situation has ever won a Super Bowl.  Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but since 2000 I believe Dan Quinn with the Seahawks is the only brand new play calling coordinator to a team who won a Super Bowl.  The Eagles have a shot to do it this year with Kellen Moore and Vic Fangio... but let's be honest, we know the Chiefs are winning and Fangio is a Football lifer who probably doesn't count.

 

And other than Moore and Quinn (and Fangio if you want to count him), I don't even think you can find many (if any) instances of a brand new coordinator and play caller making the Super Bowl.

 

Throughout history you could get to teams like the 49ers with Shanahan & Holmgren, but we all know Walsh was the play caller.

 

Now, the Eagles recently both won and lost 2 separate Super Bowls with a 2nd year coordinator in Frank Reich and Shane Steichen.  In Reich's 2nd year he won it.

 

We got outcoached against KC, but pinning it on McDermott is unfair considering he's consistently said throughout the year that Brady and Babbich are the play callers and he trusts them.  I loved his decisions to go for it on 4th downs, but wished we mixed up the play calling a bit.  That's on Brady.

 

During the offseason I think both Brady and Babbich are guys who are driven enough to learn from this season and improve a lot.  And before the cynics come in with anything like "yeah, they sure need to!" let's remember the expectations for this team before coming into the season (except I thought we would overachieve those expectations... thanks again for pointing that out @FireChans ) and the fact that Brady is probably the 1st or 2nd biggest reason (Allen is obviously the other) this team had a historically awesome offensive year.  And although our D underwhelmed in a lot of ways, they led the NFL in taking the ball away.

 

Based on Beane's and McDermott's presser yesterday, I think they're gonna actively pursue a game changer on Defense (Crosby...???) and with the growth of both Coordinators, next year could actually be the year... hopefully...

 

Go Bills!!!!

 

Thank you for this post ! It seems that common sense among some fans when it comes to the coaching position on the team has little or none & i for one have been one that has stuck up for this staff for the last couple of years when the boo birds start chirping . 

 

We are so blessed to have the people that we have from the top on down and i'm with you & feel the story of the Bills winning a SB their last season in the old stadium would be redemption for all of the heart break or teams & fans have endured since that stadium had opened .

 

This team is special all of the players and coaches said as much this year and the core of this team will be back this coming ear and knowing those that coach the team & our GM always have the best interest of the Buffalo Bills and the organization at the for front as both Beane and McD said in their pressers so i expect next year to be as good if not better than this one !! 

 

GO BILLS !!! 

[GoBills808]

It was a historically efficient season wrt to scoring, yes

 

But imo it was also historically fortunate. Our delta between yards gained-points scored (there's a reason offenses and defenses are typically 'ranked' by yards gained/allowed) was I believe the largest in the league

 

Simply put out scoring output was not commensurate w our yards gained and I would expect significant regression if that season was played 100x...which should make us feel worse, not better. Everything aligned for us this year. In addition to an extremely unlikely amount of points scored wrt yards gained we were also incredibly fortunate in turnover differential. +24 recovering 16fumbles and only losing 2 is unheard of. It was the perfect season variance-wise and we wasted it

[corta765]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Simply put out scoring output was not commensurate w our yards gained and I would expect significant regression if that season was played 100x...which should make us feel worse, not better. Everything aligned for us this year. In addition to an extremely unlikely amount of points scored wrt yards gained we were also incredibly fortunate in turnover differential. +24 recovering 16fumbles and only losing 2 is unheard of. It was the perfect season variance-wise and we wasted it

 

Which is why everyone saying like "this was a reset next year will be better with FA & new guys". Um the team was historically on pace in multiple categories which means regression from turnovers to health. Even if the talent on the team improves there is a higher percentage chance they finished 11-6 than they repeat this record or better. Additionally against BAL while I think their gameplan was quite solid they still benefited from the bounces (literally between fumbles & dropped passes). It is always a bear to make a run and the deeper you go the harder it is to replicate even if your talent base improves... unless your KC I guess.

[Charles Romes]

Yeah Brady was OC Carolina and was fired 

[Trogdor]

56 minutes ago, T master said:

 

Thank you for this post ! It seems that common sense among some fans when it comes to the coaching position on the team has little or none 

Except there was only 1 new coordinator lol. The only new coordinator was for defense and the head coach is an experienced DC. Either way, they would be his bad hires. 

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Trogdor said:

Buffalo has 1 brand new coordinator, what are you talking about? Also, McD hired them, who should be blamed? 

 

2 brand new to the team as full time coordinators/play callers in both Brady and Babbich.

 

Yep.  McDermott hired them.  Credit to him for the hires.

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Brady was a 4th year play caller in the NFL this season.   Babich was new but his HC was the DC the year before so it wasn't like he was flying without a net.

 

Yes they were grossly out-experienced by the Chiefs staff,  who also had a bye week to work on plan for Buffalo/Baltimore matchups.

 

A first time OC hasn't actually won a SB since Mike Holmgren with the 49ers back in the 80's.

 

Ken Dorsey had a chance to break that streak before Allen's GF drama killed that season a week before Chiefs week.   Otherwise the Bills haven't had a first time play calling OC since Anthony Lynn and you have to go back to the Jauron era before that for a first time play caller.

 

When I said "brand new play calling coordinator" I was referring to the idea that they were brand new to the team they were calling plays for.

 

Babich is obviously completely brand new, though.

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, corta765 said:

 

Which is why everyone saying like "this was a reset next year will be better with FA & new guys". Um the team was historically on pace in multiple categories which means regression from turnovers to health. Even if the talent on the team improves there is a higher percentage chance they finished 11-6 than they repeat this record or better. Additionally against BAL while I think their gameplan was quite solid they still benefited from the bounces (literally between fumbles & dropped passes). It is always a bear to make a run and the deeper you go the harder it is to replicate even if your talent base improves... unless your KC I guess.

 

I don't care what their regular season record is.

 

I care what they do in the playoffs.

 

Pretty clear the Chiefs were playing with their food all season and holding things back only to open things up in the postseason.  Brady's mistake was the whole idea of "we're going to be exactly who we have been!!!" so adamantly in the postseason that he didn't throw any wrinkles in there.

 

I've said it in another thread, but this offseason priority number one for Brady should be to study Andy Reid's use of timed misdirection.

22 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Except there was only 1 new coordinator lol. The only new coordinator was for defense and the head coach is an experienced DC. Either way, they would be his bad hires. 

 

Brady was new, too. 

 

He became interim last season and basically had to use Dorsey's offense.  So this year was his 1st year implementing his own offense as the play caller/ offensive coordinator.

 

When I said "new" I was talking about new to the team, not brand new as someone who's NEVER called an offense or defense.

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

It was a historically efficient season wrt to scoring, yes

 

But imo it was also historically fortunate. Our delta between yards gained-points scored (there's a reason offenses and defenses are typically 'ranked' by yards gained/allowed) was I believe the largest in the league

 

Simply put out scoring output was not commensurate w our yards gained and I would expect significant regression if that season was played 100x...which should make us feel worse, not better. Everything aligned for us this year. In addition to an extremely unlikely amount of points scored wrt yards gained we were also incredibly fortunate in turnover differential. +24 recovering 16fumbles and only losing 2 is unheard of. It was the perfect season variance-wise and we wasted it

 

1 hour ago, corta765 said:

 

Which is why everyone saying like "this was a reset next year will be better with FA & new guys". Um the team was historically on pace in multiple categories which means regression from turnovers to health. Even if the talent on the team improves there is a higher percentage chance they finished 11-6 than they repeat this record or better. Additionally against BAL while I think their gameplan was quite solid they still benefited from the bounces (literally between fumbles & dropped passes). It is always a bear to make a run and the deeper you go the harder it is to replicate even if your talent base improves... unless your KC I guess.

 

Definitely feel less depressed now. Thanks, fellas.

[Trogdor]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

When I said "new" I was talking about new to the team, not brand new as someone who's NEVER called an offense or defense.

So a seasoned OC with already half a season with this team. 

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Trogdor said:

So a seasoned OC with already half a season with this team. 

 

1st full year as a coordinator and 1st opportunity in Buffalo to implement his own offense.

[Trogdor]

28 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

1st full year as a coordinator and 1st opportunity in Buffalo to implement his own offense.

Idk, I think a lot of this is drought shock. We would never give a pass to coordinators on other teams with 1.5yrs on the team and experience before that. The staff is meh and the roster is bad. I even see people give Beane a pass like this team isn't void of playmakers outside of like 2 guys. 

[transplantbillsfan]

3 hours ago, Trogdor said:

Idk, I think a lot of this is drought shock. We would never give a pass to coordinators on other teams with 1.5yrs on the team and experience before that. The staff is meh and the roster is bad. I even see people give Beane a pass like this team isn't void of playmakers outside of like 2 guys. 

 

I take it you're one of those in the "fire everyone and tear everything down!!!" boat then?

 

Joe Brady is 35 years old and just called plays for a historically efficient offense.

 

Apparently some are poo-pooing the incredible way our offense avoided negative plays, but they are also the only offense in NFL history to pass and rush for 30+ TDs.

 

I put blame for the loss on the shoulders of the coordinators exponentially more than McDermott. For me, that's incredibly encouraging considering both just finished their 1st year implementing their systems in Buffalo as play callers.

 

I don't understand you

[Thurman#1]

16 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

It was a historically efficient season wrt to scoring, yes

 

But imo it was also historically fortunate. Our delta between yards gained-points scored (there's a reason offenses and defenses are typically 'ranked' by yards gained/allowed) was I believe the largest in the league

 

Simply put out scoring output was not commensurate w our yards gained and I would expect significant regression if that season was played 100x...which should make us feel worse, not better. Everything aligned for us this year. In addition to an extremely unlikely amount of points scored wrt yards gained we were also incredibly fortunate in turnover differential. +24 recovering 16fumbles and only losing 2 is unheard of. It was the perfect season variance-wise and we wasted it

 

 

Teams that run a lot and are successful at it are going to look like that on offense. Their yards will go down as they run a larger percentage of run plays, but if they run efficiently it could easily lead to as many scores.

 

There is indeed a reason that offenses and defenses are typically ranked by yards gained/allowed. That reason is that those stats are far better at isolating defensive contributions from offensive contributions and vice versa. 

 

Scoring is greatly affected by field position. Yards, not nearly so much.

 

Agreed about fumble percentages. We did very well in recovery percentages this year and some of that is luck. On the other hand, some of it is probably down to our defense tending to force them more downfield with the peanut punches. Downfield recoveries are more likely going to be defensive just because there are more of them in the area and the offensive guys in the area are looking for someone to block while the defenders are looking at the guy with the ball and are more likely to see the ball out.

 

We went from 55.32% in 2023 to 68..09% in 2024 (best in the league). But give us the 2023 percentage this year and it's still only a difference of about four to five TOs, total. 

 

We got lucky with fumble recoveries this year. But what was really good is that we had the 2nd lowest number of own fumbles in the league, and tied for the highest number of opponent fumbles. That's not nearly so luck-based a result.

[Jrb1979]

17 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Here's the comfort I take in this right now: Buffalo had 2 brand new coordinators to the team (both pretty young and one of whom has NEVER called plays at all) who were actual play callers (not coordinators only in name the way Matt Nagy is in Kansas City) and we were 3 points away from the Super Bowl.

 

I don't believe in the history of the NFL(certainly not in the "modern" era) any team in this situation has ever won a Super Bowl.  Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but since 2000 I believe Dan Quinn with the Seahawks is the only brand new play calling coordinator to a team who won a Super Bowl.  The Eagles have a shot to do it this year with Kellen Moore and Vic Fangio... but let's be honest, we know the Chiefs are winning and Fangio is a Football lifer who probably doesn't count.

 

And other than Moore and Quinn (and Fangio if you want to count him), I don't even think you can find many (if any) instances of a brand new coordinator and play caller making the Super Bowl.

 

Throughout history you could get to teams like the 49ers with Shanahan & Holmgren, but we all know Walsh was the play caller.

 

Now, the Eagles recently both won and lost 2 separate Super Bowls with a 2nd year coordinator in Frank Reich and Shane Steichen.  In Reich's 2nd year he won it.

 

We got outcoached against KC, but pinning it on McDermott is unfair considering he's consistently said throughout the year that Brady and Babbich are the play callers and he trusts them.  I loved his decisions to go for it on 4th downs, but wished we mixed up the play calling a bit.  That's on Brady.

 

During the offseason I think both Brady and Babbich are guys who are driven enough to learn from this season and improve a lot.  And before the cynics come in with anything like "yeah, they sure need to!" let's remember the expectations for this team before coming into the season (except I thought we would overachieve those expectations... thanks again for pointing that out @FireChans ) and the fact that Brady is probably the 1st or 2nd biggest reason (Allen is obviously the other) this team had a historically awesome offensive year.  And although our D underwhelmed in a lot of ways, they led the NFL in taking the ball away.

 

Based on Beane's and McDermott's presser yesterday, I think they're gonna actively pursue a game changer on Defense (Crosby...???) and with the growth of both Coordinators, next year could actually be the year... hopefully...

 

Go Bills!!!!

Too bad history is against them. 

 

Since 1977, just two coaches have won a first Super Bowl after having been in the job for more than five years, Cowher and Reid. In that time coaches like Reid (with the Eagles), Jeff Fisher, Lovie Smith, Mike Smith, Ron Rivera, Marv Levy, Marv Lewis, Dennis Green, Chuck Knox, John Fox, Dan Reeves, Marty Schottenheimer, Sam Wyche, Jason Garrett, Jack del Rio, Jim Mora and others have had 5+ year spells with teams that have yeilded nothing.

[MJS]

13 hours ago, Trogdor said:

Idk, I think a lot of this is drought shock. We would never give a pass to coordinators on other teams with 1.5yrs on the team and experience before that. The staff is meh and the roster is bad. I even see people give Beane a pass like this team isn't void of playmakers outside of like 2 guys. 

What do you mean give a pass? Are you saying other teams would be firing Joe Brady by this point?

[Augie]

9 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I take it you're one of those in the "fire everyone and tear everything down!!!" boat then?

 

Joe Brady is 35 years old and just called plays for a historically efficient offense.

 

Apparently some are poo-pooing the incredible way our offense avoided negative plays, but they are also the only offense in NFL history to pass and rush for 30+ TDs.

 

I put blame for the loss on the shoulders of the coordinators exponentially more than McDermott. For me, that's incredibly encouraging considering both just finished their 1st year implementing their systems in Buffalo as play callers.

 

I don't understand you

 

I honestly don’t think you want to understand him. Haters gonna hate. 

[transplantbillsfan]

3 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

Too bad history is against them. 

 

Since 1977, just two coaches have won a first Super Bowl after having been in the job for more than five years, Cowher and Reid. In that time coaches like Reid (with the Eagles), Jeff Fisher, Lovie Smith, Mike Smith, Ron Rivera, Marv Levy, Marv Lewis, Dennis Green, Chuck Knox, John Fox, Dan Reeves, Marty Schottenheimer, Sam Wyche, Jason Garrett, Jack del Rio, Jim Mora and others have had 5+ year spells with teams that have yeilded nothing.

 

How many of those teams had future 1st ballot HOF QBs in their prime?

 

I see Marv with Jimbo and Reeves with Elway.

 

Both of those guys at least made it to multiple Super Bowls with that QB. Reeves even coached Vick and the Falcons to a Super Bowl.

 

Wyche coached Boomer Esaison (not a HOFer) to a Super Bowl.

 

Rivera coached Newton to a Super Bowl.

 

John Foxx coached Jake Delhomme to a Super Bowl.

 

 

History would be on the side of still getting there.

 

And we wouldn't be playing the Chiefs for the Trophy in that game...