Who are the Bills elite players and do the Bills have enough elite players to win a Super Bowl?

[GASabresIUFan]

The definition of elite is subjective.  Sure All-pro and Pro Bowl nods are good indicators if a player is considered elite, but they also, especially the Pro Bowl, tend to be a little bit like popularity contests.  For example, take Spencer Brown, the guy allowed 1 sack all season and only 2 pressures.  That's it.  IMHO those are the stats of an elite tackle, despite him not being recognized as such by PFF grading system or selected for the Pro Bowl.   

 

The reason I created this thread is that this is an important discussion and it was prompted my a comment in another thread that Beane has not drafted any elite players for the defense.  My initial reaction to that statement was that it simply wasn't true, but generally speaking, the comment does have some merit.  The only Beane drafted defenders I'd consider elite are Taron Johnson and Christian Benford.  

 

So who are the elite Bills?

 

1) Josh Allen - Obviously.  IMHO he is the best QB in football, including Mahomes, but he lacks enough good WRs to make him unstoppable

2) James Cook - If the Chiefs game didn't solidify his elite status for even the I hate RBs crowd, I don't know what will.  

3) Dion Dawkins - Multi-time Pro Bowler.  He is one of the best tackles in football

4) Spencer Brown - He has improved every year in the NFL and this season was spectacular.  

5) Christian Benford - Was 5th overall in PFF grading system out of 223 DBs.  

6) Taron Johnson - Arguably one of the best 2 or 3 slot corners in the NFL.  

7) Khalil Shakir - Like Brown & Cook, has improved every year. 2nd in the NFL in YAC this past season.

8.) Matt Milano - When healthy he is one of the best LBs in football.  Improved every game this season once he finally became mostly healthy.  I think the elite game is still there.

 

Developing players 

1) Terrel Bernard - 100+ tackles 2 straight seasons, but fell off 2023 numbers due to injuries.  I wish would McD to use him more on the pass rush.

2) O'Cyrus Torrence - How many guys start 33 of their 1st 34 games on the Oline coming right out school? No sacks allowed this past season.

3) Dalton Kincaid - Has all the skills to be an elite pass catching TE.  Knee injuries hampered this past season.  Lets see how he recovers.

4) Keon Coleman - Has the size and hands to be a good to excellent physical boundary receiver like a Higgins or Pittman, but needs to be more dedicated to get to that level.

5) McGovern - 1st time center did an elite job this season.  Let's see how year 2 goes.

 

Very Good but not great

1) Rousseau - I like Groot a great deal, but he very inconsistent game to game.  Part of that is how the Bills have utilized him, but his motor isn't always on

2) Oliver - Much like Rousseau, inconsistent motor.  We have all seen him dominate, but also seen him disappear.

 

So is this enough "elite" talent to win a Super Bowl?  I think it is with some smart additions at WR, DL and another good CB.  Remember the Bills were likely one Kincaid catch away from being in the Super Bowl this season without an adequate defense.  

 

Edited 2 hours ago by GASabresIUFan

[MJS]

I don't think Shakir is an elite receiver by any stretch of the imagination. But he is good.

 

I agree with your top 5. Those are the elite players. The Bille need to have an elite game wrecker on the defensive line, and they don't. That has been the one place they can't seem to get right.

[JP51]

1) Josh Allen - No brainer

2) James Cook - Maybe yes, probably... in this system, if he takes his services elsewhere... I am going hmmmm maybe very good to excellent... elite.. not sure

3) Dion Dawkins - Elite wouldnt trade him for nothin.. even outside of his critical production an outstanding leader

4) Spencer Brown -  I am fine with him in the upper tier.. elite.. that being said we have a bit of a definition disparity on elite.. like Elite should be at  least like you are the best of the best... Justin Herbert, really good not elite... Stafford, Goff, Prescott... not elite... as an example...  Jackson, Mahomes, Josh, Burrow, elite... 

5) Benford- Very Good to excellent, not going with elite... or my definition of elite... see above... could he be I hope so... 

6) Taron Johnson - Elite at his position yes.  

7) Khalil Shakir -  I would not put him in the elite category... 

8.) Matt Milano -  No. maybe elite ability. But, The best ability is availability... this precludes him from elite...to me 

 

To answer the over all question, and not to sound like a broken record... to win the Super Bowl I really believe we need a game wrecker on defense... an absolute menace... 

Edited 1 hour ago by JP51

[GASabresIUFan]

10 minutes ago, MJS said:

The Bills need to have an elite game wrecker on the defensive line, and they don't. That has been the one place they can't seem to get right.

 

This is the one area where Beane has truly missed the mark.  Oliver and Groot are good players, but not elite.  Both maybe "better" if they had better players on the line with them.  Beane has invested a fair amount of draft capital on the DL in Harrison Phillips (96th pick in 2018), Oliver (9th in 2019), AJE (54th in 2020), Rousseau (30th in 2021), Basham (61st in 2021), & Carter (95th overall in 2024).  Only Basham is a true bust.  Phillips has become a very good player for the Vikings.  AJE continues to disappoint and should be replaced.  

Edited 2 hours ago by GASabresIUFan

[SoCal Deek]

These labels are always a bit challenging but I’ve seen nothing that would put Coleman into the ‘developing players’ category. Not to say he can’t be in another year but he certainly isn’t yet. 

[GASabresIUFan]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

These labels are always a bit challenging but I’ve seen nothing that would put Coleman into the ‘developing players’ category. Not to say he can’t be in another year but he certainly isn’t yet. 

The guy averaged 19.2 yards per catch as a rookie.  That was 4th among all NFL WRs with 40 or more targets.  

[uticaclub]

Taron WAS one the best slot guys, he struggled a lot this year

 

Milano WAS an elite LB, he looked good in the playoffs and I hope he has yuge bounce back year in 2025.

 

Shakir is our best WR but might not crack the top 40 WR in the NFL

 

I don't have any hope of Kincaid or Coleman being in the elite category, their ceiling seems to be role players.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by uticaclub

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

We also need elite players that show up in playoff games. Brown was garbage in the Chiefs game and Dawkins was almost as bad

[uticaclub]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

 

This is the one area where Beane as truly missed the mark.  Oliver and Groot are good players, but not elite.  Both maybe "better" if they had better players on the line with them.  Beane has invested a fair amount of draft capital on the DL in Harrison Phillips (96th pick in 2018), Oliver (9th in 2019), AJE (54th in 2020), Rousseau (30th in 2021), Basham (61st in 2021), & Carter (95th overall in 2024).  Only Basham is a true bust.  Phillips has become a very good player for the Vikings.  AJE continues to disappoint and should be replaced.  

AJE is a bust too, he should have never received a second contract

[Neo]

You use the word “elite” more generously than I do despite our similar assessments of the talent.

 

Allen is elite.   Dawkins, if not elite, can see it from where he’s standing.   The others?   Good, very good and excellent.

 

I know, this is quibbling with language.    But “elite” has been so diluted.

[uticaclub]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFan said:

The guy averaged 19.2 yards per catch as a rookie.  That was 4th among all NFL WRs with 40 or more targets.  

Small sample size, too high of a drop rate & not enough separation to be a reliable deep threat

[TFBillsfan]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

 

This is the one area where Beane as truly missed the mark.  Oliver and Groot are good players, but not elite.  Both maybe "better" if they had better players on the line with them.  Beane has invested a fair amount of draft capital on the DL in Harrison Phillips (96th pick in 2018), Oliver (9th in 2019), AJE (54th in 2020), Rousseau (30th in 2021), Basham (61st in 2021), & Carter (95th overall in 2024).  Only Basham is a true bust.  Phillips has become a very good player for the Vikings.  AJE continues to disappoint and should be replaced.  

And then add in the amount of money and resources that had been spent on FA’s related to the DL. Star, Daquan Jones, Von, Floyd, Shaq, Settle, Smoot, etc… with pretty much nothing to show for it when it counts. 

 

The evaluation of DL player personnel needs a complete overhaul. For the most part, our DL draft picks have been below avg and our FA adds haven’t been that much better. When you historically, can’t stop the run or generate pressure, you’ve got major issues. 

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, GASabresIUFan said:

The guy averaged 19.2 yards per catch as a rookie.  That was 4th among all NFL WRs with 40 or more targets.  

GA….you honestly look back over the course of the 2024 season and think of Coleman as a ‘developing elite player’? Honestly? Once again, he might become something one day but I sure didn’t see the sort of an impact that many other WRs playing with Josh Allen wouldn’t have also had. 

[GASabresIUFan]

4 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Small sample size, too high of a drop rate & not enough separation to be a reliable deep threat

Which is why he is in the developing category.  I never said developing elite.  I said developing.  I think his ceiling is Higgins or Pittman.  If he gets there he will be considered elite.  I saw enough this season to make me think that ceiling is still possible.  He made some great contested catches and showed the ability to read off Josh at times.  Overall I thought his rookie year was good, but not great and as I wrote above, he needs to dedicate himself to getting better.  

Edited 1 hour ago by GASabresIUFan

[JerseyBills]

Yes

We were literally a play or 2 away, inches away from making a SB.

 

[GASabresIUFan]

6 minutes ago, TFBillsfan said:

And then add in the amount of money and resources that had been spent on FA’s related to the DL. Star, Daquan Jones, Von, Floyd, Shaq, Settle, Smoot, etc… with pretty much nothing to show for it when it counts. 

 

The evaluation of DL player personnel needs a complete overhaul. For the most part, our DL draft picks have been below avg and our FA adds haven’t been that much better. When you historically, can’t stop the run or generate pressure, you’ve got major issues. 

 I don't think any Bills fan is happy with the status of our DL and I think everyone agrees that it needs to be a focus for Beane in the free agency and in the draft.  Getting more and consistent pressure is this off-season's biggest priority, but this is a story for another thread. 

[harmonkillebrew]

Elite?:

Josh

Dawkins

Cook

 

Good?:

Milano

Oliver

Groot

Shakir

McGovern

Brown

Rapp
Benford

 

There are guys, like AJE, Coleman and Bernard that need to and can get better. And there are guys like Milano and Oliver that could become (or regain) elite status.

Regardless, I think we are seriously lacking in elite, impact players at very key positions (DE, DT, WR, CB) and should look to add one in FA and maybe trade up to get higher picks in the 1st and 2nd and swing for the fences with guys with elite talent and potential

[transient]

When I think of "elite", I think of someone who has the ability to take over a game. Think Von Miller in his prime before the second ACL. That is a short list of Bills currently, imo. Allen, Cook... maybe Milano before his spate of recent injuries, but not this season... you could maybe make a case for Dawkins on the OL, but I don't think of them as individually dominant so much as I think of them collectively as a dominant unit this season until the KC game... none of our DL currently fits that bill, none of our LBs this season... maybe Benford, but I don't think of him as the type of player that just shuts down his side of the field, and certainly no one else in our secondary fits that description.

[4th&long]

Josh Allen.  

[Goin Breakdown]

45 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

These labels are always a bit challenging but I’ve seen nothing that would put Coleman into the ‘developing players’ category. Not to say he can’t be in another year but he certainly isn’t yet. 

I agree. I'm not trying to sound negative but I wouldn't even have him as average. Buffalo gave him every chance to make plays as far as snap count. They didn't use him as a benchwarmer like some WRs in the past and he produced very little. I did see flashes. 
On that free play that Josh threw a prayer to Coleman. Coleman didn't even try to catch the ball. He swatted it. Maybe he didn't know it was a free play. But man if your hand can touch it like his did make that effort there.