Air Traffic Control DEI and the Mid-Air Collision: So Where's the Black Dwarf?

[Orlando Buffalo]

19 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Nice try. 

No really, at least you came up with something tangentially tied to what actually happened, unlike Trump himself.

 

18 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

And NONE of that had anything to do with this airline diaster and for this president to suggest that, is beyond stupid, ignorant and divisive. Sorry about your situation but that's  not every Americans situation and definitely not the situation here with this disaster.

 

Point blank.

The lack of ATC nationwide was made much worse because of the DEI hiring practices of the past decade, they did not hire white men for many positions so they could hold them for minorities. To pretend otherwise is to put politics over fixing the problem. A former neighbor was an ATC until a few years ago at Orlando and he told me that they never allowed one person to work alone and in Orlando there was always a spare person doing the other part of an ATCs job, why was there not another person their to assist? This crash was avoidable, and we need to fix it. For the time being I would say no helicopters near the airport and work from there but something must change. 

[Ghost_002!]

3 minutes ago, wnyguy said:

It almost seems like Frankish and others like him get a sense of joy when there is a national tragedy? I don't understand it really.

Isn't "Frankish" piggybacking off of something the "president" said or suggested?

[4th&long]

32 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

Truly your racism being shown on such an important conversation is crazy. You actually believe that having a black man is the important part, you think the wheelchair is important, I just want competent people and lots of them. I have worked for two separate "DEI" hires, people chosen for their skin and/or gender and both were disasters. I have worked under every race and more women than men, the majority were good to great but when you pick someone due to the things that don't matter to successfully doing the job, failure is what you get. 

That wasn't my question or statement. Point to where I said that the man being black was the important part? I'm not surprised it went right over your head. 

[BillsFanNC]

1 minute ago, Ghost_002! said:

Isn't "Frankish" piggybacking off of something the "president" said or suggested?

 

The orange menace says stupid shlit all the time. Sometimes he doesn't

 

Frankish piggybacks everything the orange dude says or does through the prism of perceived stupidity.

 

That same prism, when pointed at our previous POTUS, told him that he is and remains mentally fit.

 

Therefore Frankish/Finding has zero credibility.

[Ghost_002!]

13 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

 

The lack of ATC nationwide was made much worse because of the DEI hiring practices of the past decade, they did not hire white men for many positions so they could hold them for minorities. To pretend otherwise is to put politics over fixing the problem. A former neighbor was an ATC until a few years ago at Orlando and he told me that they never allowed one person to work alone and in Orlando there was always a spare person doing the other part of an ATCs job, why was there not another person their to assist? This crash was avoidable, and we need to fix it. For the time being I would say no helicopters near the airport and work from there but something must change. 

 

 

There has been NOTHING REPORTED as factual to your claim and NOTHING remotely points to that in this tragedy.

 

 

Last time I checked there is an "aptitude test" in getting that job right. So even if there was a DEI hire in position. They still will have to be mentally qualified for the position.

 

So...there was one person doing the job of two people. Sounds more like a hiring issue as a whole and not a DEI issue since there wasn't even a woman, black, Hispanic, Asian, or handicap there.

7 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

The orange menace says stupid shlit all the time. Sometimes he doesn't

 

Frankish piggybacks everything the orange dude says or does through the prism of perceived stupidity.

 

That same prism, when pointed at our previous POTUS, told him that he is and remains mentally fit.

 

Therefore Frankish/Finding has zero credibility.

 

 

Aren't you doing that to the other side? And the president saying stupid sh*t while supposedly being the leader of "The free world" should not be an excuse. Cause we all know when anyone from the other side does it..(and there are plenty of them that do)

 

 

You are all over it. Right?

Edited Friday at 04:15 PM by Ghost_002!

[Roundybout]

4 hours ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

The FAA went to diversity guidelines in 2013/2014 and basically slowed hiring white men at that point. That decision led to the understaffing of flight towers, which the whole country is dealing with right now. In 2005 at Orlando Airport we always had at least one additional person available, because an ATC does more than just the radio part of job at times. If someone got sick that person would jump on to the radio and things would go as normal. If you disagree with the hiring practices look up the old standards vs the Obama standards for the FAA 

There’s a viral tweet going around where some guy named Andrew Brigida says he passed the exam 100% but was still denied because he was a white guy. I’m sorry, but that’s insane and I don’t believe it a second. I guarantee he failed a background check. 

Edited Friday at 04:16 PM by Roundybout

[OrangeBills]

Trump had a very bad day

 

a lot will go right this went wrong

[The Frankish Reich]

16 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

The orange menace says stupid shlit all the time. Sometimes he doesn't

 

Frankish piggybacks everything the orange dude says or does through the prism of perceived stupidity.

 

That same prism, when pointed at our previous POTUS, told him that he is and remains mentally fit.

 

Therefore Frankish/Finding has zero credibility.

The waiting was the hardest part, wasn't it Tarheel ...

[BillsFanNC]

26 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

There has been NOTHING REPORTED as factual to your claim and NOTHING remotely points to that in this tragedy.

 

 

Last time I checked there is an "aptitude test" in getting that job right. So even if there was a DEI hire in position. They still will have to be mentally qualified for the position.

 

So...there was one person doing the job of two people. Sounds more like a hiring issue as a whole and not a DEI issue since there wasn't even a woman, black, Hispanic, Asian, or handicap there.

 

 

Aren't you doing that to the other side? And the president saying stupid sh*t while supposedly being the leader of "The free world" should not be an excuse. Cause we all know when anyone from the other side does it..(and there are plenty of them that do)

 

 

You are all over it. Right?

 

I did both sides. Can you?

 

I said Trump says stupid ***** all the time, including yesterday.

 

I also said that our previous porridge for brains POTUS said and did a lot of things that you'd expect from a dementia patient.

 

Your turn.

[Ghost_002!]

4 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

I did both sides. Can you?

 

I said Trump says stupid ***** all the time, including yesterday.

 

I also said that our previous porridge for brains POTUS said and did a lot of things that you'd expect from a dementia patient.

 

Your turn.

 

 

Clearly you don't read my posts. If you did, then you wouldn't have asked this question 

 

"Your turn."

[BillsFanNC]

1 minute ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

Clearly you don't read my posts. If you did, then you wouldn't have asked this question 

 

"Your turn."

 

Is it that difficult to do in the same post like I just did?

 

Go!

[Ghost_002!]

2 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

Is it that difficult to do in the same post like I just did?

 

Go!

 

 

Why should I have to? You seem to be very intelligent and intelligent enough to go back to things and see for yourself.

 

Especially when you respond to them.

[BillsFanNC]

1 minute ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

Why should I have to? You seem to be very intelligent and intelligent enough to go back to things and see for yourself.

 

Especially when you respond to them.

 

You can't / won't.  I understand. Par for the course.

[Ghost_002!]

4 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

You can't / won't.  I understand. Par for the course.

 

 

No...I don't need to. Do what you want "lazy people or  DEI hires to do"

 

Work for it yourself, no hand outs.(which isn't any work at all...)

 

That's more par for the course

Edited Friday at 04:59 PM by Ghost_002!

[Orlando Buffalo]

52 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

There has been NOTHING REPORTED as factual to your claim and NOTHING remotely points to that in this tragedy.

 

 

Last time I checked there is an "aptitude test" in getting that job right. So even if there was a DEI hire in position. They still will have to be mentally qualified for the position.

 

So...there was one person doing the job of two people. Sounds more like a hiring issue as a whole and not a DEI issue since there wasn't even a woman, black, Hispanic, Asian, or handicap there.

 

 

You don't think they changed the hiring practices about a decade ago? Ok I can't argue with you when you are going to deny something they bragged about. The fact that you hit the nail on the head without even realizing it is hilarious to me, the issue is hiring, take the most competent people, which you then go on a stupid tangent about demographics again, hire the best people regardless. 

 

 

[sherpa]

While their hiring practices are not related this tragedy, it is completely known throughout the FAA and the airline industry that the FAA has a serious issue with their quota system of hiring and promotion.

Their own employees talk about it constantly, and it a serious morale issue.

 

During the last four years, it has become more and more an issue, as they have tried to expand it into pilot licensing.

I saw a video last year where about five senior FAA folks were pushing some stupid :ramp to cockpit" policy seemingly aimed at getting ramp workers to get their pilots license.

Completely crazy, but along with spending lots of time, money and manpower on de-genderizing language, this is what they were up to.

 

Everybody knows all about it. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

This topic has gone a weird direction for liberals, like the meme, we started with it is not happening in 2010, to it is happening and it is good in 2015, to it never happened in 2025 and you are a racist for wanting competent people in charge. 

[Ghost_002!]

39 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

You don't think they changed the hiring practices about a decade ago? Ok I can't argue with you when you are going to deny something they bragged about. The fact that you hit the nail on the head without even realizing it is hilarious to me, the issue is hiring, take the most competent people, which you then go on a stupid tangent about demographics again, hire the best people regardless. 

 

 

 

 

So you begin to ask me a question then turn around and "assume to know" how I'm gonna answer it? Huh!?

 

I would "assume" some effects to a companies hiring processes can be seen to some degree BUT AGAIN that type of change has zero to do with this tragedy. I will say it again since you are Steadfast on ignoring that.  Also since this change had took place "a decade " ago how many major flaws or incompetence has happened because of the process. Factual reported?

 

 

I can honestly say..I never heard of any issues that would raise an eye lid. Especially to this tragedy .

Edited Friday at 05:51 PM by Ghost_002!

[The Frankish Reich]

A little logic. The type of thing every company/agency should do when something goes horribly wrong.

 

 

PROXIMATE CAUSE - FIRST ORDER ANALYSIS

What was the proximate (lawyer word meaning "immediate") cause of the accident?

- Human error: Military helicopter flying too low, off course, erroneously confirming visual avoidance of CRJ

 

FUTURE SAFETY IMPROVEMENTS - SECOND ORDER ANALYSIS

What lessons should we learn going forward?

- change helicopter paths between Key Bridge and Wilson Bridge

------already suspended by FAA this morning; will likely be changed permanently

- improve military/civilian/Tower communications

----- nothing so far?

- improve military helicopter training/certification plans

-----nothing so far?

- better staff ATC to allow more aggressive tracking/warnings

----- improve recruitment and retention

 

FUTURE SAFETY IMPROVEMENTS - THIRD ORDER ANALYSIS

Subset of "improve recruitment and retention"

---------- streamline hiring process

---------- better pay/benefits to retain experienced ATCs

---------- investigate whether DEI initiatives actually assist with recruitment

---------- investigate whether DEI hires perform more poorly than non-DEI hires

 

In other words, Trump first posted about the First Order Analysis ("not complicated ... helicopter too low"), then weirdly jumped right past everything else to one particular explanation/remedial course that is far, far distant from the proximate cause.

 

Why did he do that? I suspect to deflect attention from "a bad thing happened on my watch." Or to cynically use a tragedy to advance a policy goal that is very far removed from the actual bad thing that happened. Or to reinforce his belief (attractive to some of his supporters) that white non-disable people are best at the job - a job that was apparently performed in a by-the-book manner by this particular Tower controller.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Friday at 05:56 PM by The Frankish Reich

[BillsFanNC]

39 minutes ago, sherpa said:

While their hiring practices are not related this tragedy, it is completely known throughout the FAA and the airline industry that the FAA has a serious issue with their quota system of hiring and promotion.

Their own employees talk about it constantly, and it a serious morale issue.

 

During the last four years, it has become more and more an issue, as they have tried to expand it into pilot licensing.

I saw a video last year where about five senior FAA folks were pushing some stupid :ramp to cockpit" policy seemingly aimed at getting ramp workers to get their pilots license.

Completely crazy, but along with spending lots of time, money and manpower on de-genderizing language, this is what they were up to.

 

Everybody knows all about it. 

 

Here it is...