Why no tush push on the Allen QB sneaks?

[Matt_In_NH]

10 hours ago, Punch said:

I mentioned this before, but on Sunday afternoon, a caller into WGR told Jeremy and Nate that he noticed Allen always tush pushes/sneaks to the left pushing off his right foot. He mentioned the Chiefs would certainly be aware of this and be prepared, although Jeremy and Nate more or less dismissed him.

 

I keep thinking about that caller.

It was reasonable to dismiss it....we did not need a caller to tell you he likes to go to his left, there was no secret we all watched it all year....the point is it was always successful.  However in this game, it was clear they geared up for it and they should have went to something else.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

12 hours ago, Einstein said:

From a Chiefs player…

 

“I mean, from our defensive side, he always QB sneaks to our right. So every time we see him in QB sneak formation, we know he’s coming to the right side every time. It’s a hundred percent, 10 for 10, he’s going to that side. If he would’ve did something different, then we wouldn’t have been prepared because we’re selling he was coming to that right side every time. And if they would’ve, you know, I think self-scouted a little bit, then they would’ve went to the opposite side and they probably would’ve had a little more chance.”

 

Joe Brady’s coaching leading up to that game and in that game was brutal. Zero tendency breakers, running the same stuff we ran all year, etc. 

I thought for sure all year that they were setting the stage to (in the playoffs) go into QB sneak formation and then run a fake-sneak pass, or go to the opposite side, or do a quick pitch, or SOMETHING.

 

But nope. 
 

Same old, same old.

Agreed!  Makes no sense. Even changing up the snap cadence probably gets an Offside.  Also it would be nice if they had called Jones being lined up in the neutral zone.  

[JohnBonhamRocks]

12 hours ago, Einstein said:

From a Chiefs player…

 

“I mean, from our defensive side, he always QB sneaks to our right. So every time we see him in QB sneak formation, we know he’s coming to the right side every time. It’s a hundred percent, 10 for 10, he’s going to that side. If he would’ve did something different, then we wouldn’t have been prepared because we’re selling he was coming to that right side every time. And if they would’ve, you know, I think self-scouted a little bit, then they would’ve went to the opposite side and they probably would’ve had a little more chance.”

 

Joe Brady’s coaching leading up to that game and in that game was brutal. Zero tendency breakers, running the same stuff we ran all year, etc. 

I thought for sure all year that they were setting the stage to (in the playoffs) go into QB sneak formation and then run a fake-sneak pass, or go to the opposite side, or do a quick pitch, or SOMETHING.

 

But nope. 
 

Same old, same old.

Struggling to find a clip, but reminds me of Drew Bledsoe’s fake QB sneak that led to a long pass play to Willis McGahee out of the backfield against the Seahawks on what I think was a 4th and 1.

[Allen2Moulds]

It's almost like they got a little lazy/arrogant. As others stated, you always have to have a counter ready number 1. And no.2, why not have a bigger/stronger body pushing Allen. The Shakir thing is the cute kind of thing that almost always blows up in your face. This one thing arguably cost us the game. Not only on the 4th down play, but also on the 2pt conversion. It potentially cost us 10pts.

 

They also can't use the fail proof argument, because Baltimore stopped it the week before. That should of set off some alarms, to be ready with the necessary adjustments.

Edited Friday at 03:42 PM by Allen2Moulds

[Punch]

2 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

It was reasonable to dismiss it....we did not need a caller to tell you he likes to go to his left, there was no secret we all watched it all year....the point is it was always successful.  However in this game, it was clear they geared up for it and they should have went to something else.

They dismissed that it mattered at all, not that it was a secret. I'm not sure I understand why it would be reasonable for them to dismiss the caller's point when you  confirm the Bills clearly should've adjusted in game.

 

Jeremy and Nate refused to acknowledge the tendency, which was then exploited by the Chiefs, much to our chagrin.

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, Punch said:

They dismissed that it mattered at all, not that it was a secret. I'm not sure I understand why it would be reasonable for them to dismiss the caller's point when you  confirm the Bills clearly should've adjusted in game.

 

Jeremy and Nate refused to acknowledge the tendency, which was then exploited by the Chiefs, much to our chagrin.

I am not a fan of the WGR crew in general but anyone who is on the radio has to say stuff....and it is inevitable some of it comes out to not be a good take.  But it was something like 21 of 22 during the regular season.  The Chiefs had not stopped a sneak since like 2018.  You find it unreasonable because you live in hindsight.

[TheFunPolice]

With everyone crammed in so tight and everything happening so fast would the D notice if Allen ran up, lined up under guard, did the cadence and they quick snapped it directly to Cook who would run wide to the right side while Allen QB sneaked to the left but without the ball?

[BILLS 4 EVER]

15 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

2) KC was lining up in the neutral zone on every short yardage play

Yup. It's hard to catch in a bar full of people, but once I saw the replays with Jone's head over the ball, I was like WTF!!! How could they not call that. 

[JoshAllin]

Didn't understand that one also. There should've been a tpush play up the middle as they were ready for the favored side. The ravens w/Andrews version looked pretty effective 

[Jauronimo]

17 hours ago, pennstate10 said:

Guys....this isnt rocket science.  Its not some incredible revelation.

 

I'm just sitting on my couch, and I knew that Josh almost always goes to the left side several games ago.  The announcers knew as well.

 

I'm pretty sure that every defense knew that.  And the Bills knew that defenses knew.  Again, this isnt rocket science.

 

But Bills were just a bit arrogant, thinking "we dont care, we're that good, you cant stop us".

 

Bills offensive brain trust was wrong.

They were right all year that defenses couldn't. They were right until they were wrong.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

They were right all year that defenses couldn't. They were right until they were wrong.

it begs the question Cowherd brought up yesterday- wouldn't you, as part of a well-prepared staff, at least want to have a different play you've practiced during the regular season and hopefully put on tape if for no other reason than to give the defense something to think about?

[Jauronimo]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

it begs the question Cowherd brought up yesterday- wouldn't you, as part of a well-prepared staff, at least want to have a different play you've practiced during the regular season and hopefully put on tape if for no other reason than to give the defense something to think about?

I agree it would be nice to mix in a tendency breaker.  On the other hand, if you have a play that was unstoppable all year why fix what isn't broken?  I would have bet everything I owned that Allen converts on 4th and a foot. 

 

Pete Carroll once famously introduced a tendency breaker when everyone in the world knew that if you pound Marshawn twice you win the super bowl.

[GoBills808]

I know and there's absolutely a fine line

 

I just hate how we always fall on the wrong side of it when we play KC

[K D]

Your annual reminder that Josh Allen doesn't workout. But hey he's a good golfer. Here's Jalen Hurts (who is undefeated on tush pushes) squatting 600 pounds...

https://youtu.be/akeThVSzaVc?si=gOlLuw-UuIWTGhNm

 

 

[reddogblitz]

9 minutes ago, K D said:

Your annual reminder that Josh Allen doesn't workout. But hey he's a good golfer. Here's Jalen Hurts (who is undefeated on tush pushes) squatting 600 pounds...

https://youtu.be/akeThVSzaVc?si=gOlLuw-UuIWTGhNm

 

 

 

This irritates me about Josh.  Mahomes and others get together in the off season with tgeir WRs and practice on their own.  Not sure, but I don't think I've read of Josh doing this.  Maybe he does.  If not, he should.  Joe Burrow goes to bed at 8:00 every night during the season.  This is who we are competing against.

 

After you retire there will be plenty if time for golf.

[K D]

13 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

This irritates me about Josh.  Mahomes and others get together in the off season with tgeir WRs and practice on their own.  Not sure, but I don't think I've read of Josh doing this.  Maybe he does.  If not, he should.  Joe Burrow goes to bed at 8:00 every night during the season.  This is who we are competing against.

 

After you retire there will be plenty if time for golf.

Josh has said he needs to "get away" from the game to recover mentally and physically. You are 100% correct that now is the time to capitalize on his abilities and there's plenty of time for golf when you are retired at age 40. If any of us were given the gift of 6'6" 245 lbs and super athletic, I doubt we would want to waste it. I'd be ultra focused for 15 years knowing that you only have so much time in your short career.

[Success]

I still get crazy thinking about these plays. All year, they were basically guaranteed.

 

I have to give credit to Spags & KC.  They were ready.

 

[harmonkillebrew]

21 hours ago, Punch said:

I mentioned this before, but on Sunday afternoon, a caller into WGR told Jeremy and Nate that he noticed Allen always tush pushes/sneaks to the left pushing off his right foot. He mentioned the Chiefs would certainly be aware of this and be prepared, although Jeremy and Nate more or less dismissed him.

 

I keep thinking about that caller.

I mean it was no secret. Everyone knew that. 

I'm not sure why the Bills didn't know that and mix it up toward the end of the year in more meaningless games.

 

That said, the one successful 4th down sneak was Josh over the top, where he almost fumbled it.

But something else was off.  Dion didn't get his usual push - grass v. turf field? illness?  Josh was hesitant a few times.  We didn't have two guys pushing him. Often it's Gilliam and Ty bracketing Josh.  It was just organizational failure as a whole

[DCofNC]

20 hours ago, 90sBills said:

Philly’s tush push is alot more fluid and unstoppable. Part of the reason for that is Hurts being smaller than Allen and get lost in the scrum. 

Allen could get lower and push, he went high and had nobody pushing him this time, I’m curious why the tush push suddenly became a standard sneak, it was a hell of a time to change the biggest reason it had worked all year.

4 hours ago, K D said:

Your annual reminder that Josh Allen doesn't workout. But hey he's a good golfer. Here's Jalen Hurts (who is undefeated on tush pushes) squatting 600 pounds...

https://youtu.be/akeThVSzaVc?si=gOlLuw-UuIWTGhNm

 

 

You really think Josh doesn’t work out?  You have got to be kidding. 

3 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

This irritates me about Josh.  Mahomes and others get together in the off season with tgeir WRs and practice on their own.  Not sure, but I don't think I've read of Josh doing this.  Maybe he does.  If not, he should.  Joe Burrow goes to bed at 8:00 every night during the season.  This is who we are competing against.

 

After you retire there will be plenty if time for golf.

What a short or selective memory you have, there have been many published stories about Josh working in the offseason w the guys. 

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

What a short or selective memory you have, there have been many published stories about Josh working in the offseason w the guys. 

 

Ok. I stand corrected if you're right.  Here is a clip of Josh talking about what he does in the off season.

 

Not saying you're wrong.  Can you provide one of these published articles?

Edited Saturday at 02:53 AM by reddogblitz