Plane crash at Reagan Ntll. airport. Plane went into the Potomac.

[Wacka]

Crash  at about 8:30 between an American flight landing and a helicopter at Regan Ntl. Plane said to have ~60 on board and copter was either a Blackhawk or a DC police copter. Video from a webcam at  the Kennedy Center caught it.Live feeds can be found on the webs.Believe it is the first commercial crash since the one in Clarence

Update:Copter was a military copter.

Edited Thursday at 08:44 AM by Wacka

[Captain Hindsight]

Awful 

[Wacka]

Was up at 3:30 to use the bathroom and checked the news. 12+ bodies recovered. Next press conf  at 7:30 AM.

[sherpa]

A few initial thoughts.

It was not an American Airline flight. It was American Eagle, which is a different company that uses the Eagle name, and is a feeder to AA.

The Eagle flight was lining up to land on runway 33 at Reagan. 33 is a short runway, and during good weather, the regional jets, (small), use 33 while the regular airliners use runway 36, which is longer.

That means that they were operating the two runways at once, and a single tower controller was handling both.

The tower controller would be responsible for ensuring separation.

The helo pilot would be responsible to "see and avoid," in this instance.

The regional jet crew would not be responsible for someone in the final approach path.

 

That airspace is quite complicated, with lots of military helo activity, but never should they be at any conflicting altitude when on or near the centerline of a runway final.

 

Helicopters are very hard to see at night. They are very slow and look like vehicular traffic in a high density city area.

The point is that the helo should never have been there, and is responsible for "see and avoid."

The tower controller is responsible for keeping the final approach path clear.

[Doc Brown]

From what I've seen reported 67 people in all were involved in the crash.  Man I pray for the families of all of them as I can't imagine what's going through their head right now.

[njbuff]

Imagine taking a nap on a flight and just waking up to the flight crew announcing the descend of the plane as it’s approaching the runway, and then…..

 

WHAM.

 

What a HORRIFIC way to go not knowing what the heck hit you

 

Terrible terrible story.

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

 

[boyst]

The saddest part that I saw was the flight was listed as landed for over 2 hours. Arrivals and even flight radar sites showed it landed

 

However, you could replay the flight and see the crash. It was identified in 5 minutes after the incident on flight message boards. The recovery effort was quick, 3 air vehicles searched immediately and only reported the recovery of those lost. Ambulances were turned away and emergency radio was littered with emergency response trying to get there in a futile attempt. 

 

So many families sat falsey hoping their loved ones landed.

 

A prayer for peace for ever soul on board 

[aristocrat]

Sadly has turned into a recovery effort. Aircraft was in 3 pieces

[muppy]

I hope their deaths were quick . It makes you feel sick to your stomach reading this.

 

Horrifying

 

as safe as flying is  still a tragedy occurred. It sucks.

 

sending prayers for the grieving.

Edited Thursday at 09:44 PM by muppy

[zow2]

2 hours ago, sherpa said:

A few initial thoughts.

It was not an American Airline flight. It was American Eagle, which is a different company that uses the Eagle name, and is a feeder to AA.

The Eagle flight was lining up to land on runway 33 at Reagan. 33 is a short runway, and during good weather, the regional jets, (small), use 33 while the regular airliners use runway 36, which is longer.

 

 

I've landed on runway 33 a few times, coming in to DCA.   That's going to be a big issue.  The CRJ coming from the South towards main runway 1, then circles to the right over Bolling helicopter base along the shoreline, then banks left to line up with runway 33.   The Blackhawks typically fly directly up and down that shoreline in the visual helicopter corridor.  When ATC asked the copter if they had the plane in sight they responded yes, but now the authorities think it was looking at a plane taking off, not the one landing directly towards them.   It's going to be human error, and the ATC did a terrible job of keeping that helicopter away from the arriving CRJ.  They should never had allowed the jet to land at runway 33 if helicopter traffic was in the area.  The main runway 1 is the safer choice since it never intersects with the helicopter corridor.

[boyst]

13 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

I've landed on runway 33 a few times, coming in to DCA.   That's going to be a big issue.  The CRJ coming from the South towards main runway 1, then circles to the right over Bolling helicopter base along the shoreline, then banks left to line up with runway 33.   The Blackhawks typically fly directly up and down that shoreline in the visual helicopter corridor.  When ATC asked the copter if they had the plane in sight they responded yes, but now the authorities think it was looking at a plane taking off, not the one landing directly towards them.   It's going to be human error, and the ATC did a terrible job of keeping that helicopter away from the arriving CRJ.  They should never had allowed the jet to land at runway 33 if helicopter traffic was in the area.  The main runway 1 is the safer choice since it never intersects with the helicopter corridor.

The information we already have is amazing.

Edited Thursday at 01:19 PM by boyst

[ExiledInIllinois]

The commercial flight had right of way.  It's the job of the helo to avoid.

 

Fed workers are in chaos right now. Just saying.  The ATC asked helo if they saw them, they responded yes... What more could they do?

 

Maybe hire more ATCers... 

Many first responders are Feds too, right?

 

 

Edited Thursday at 01:50 PM by ExiledInIllinois

[BringBackFergy]

Very sad. Why the %#!& is a Blackhawk doing a training mission at night next to a busy airport? RIP

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

3 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

Very sad. Why the %#!& is a Blackhawk doing a training mission at night next to a busy airport? RIP

 

Have you seen video... Crazy.

 

Helo acknowledged seeing the wrong plane.  That's all I was focused on, the other plane... Holy crap!

 

What kind of better communication protocol would clarify a mix up like from happening in the future?

 

 

Edited Thursday at 01:55 PM by ExiledInIllinois

[zow2]

The copter pilots are looking right at the departing plane, speculation is that's who they think ATC is talking about.  the doomed plane is coming very low from their left.  It's dark, over water, city lights and airport lights in the background, impossible for the jet to see the helicopter.

 

This is the situation they've been worried about around Reagan National for years.  Just a lot of helicopter traffic around the east side of the Potomac river...all day and all night.  Experts are saying Runway 33 landings are incompatible with the helicopter traffic and should have been decommissioned years ago.

[US Egg]

For what it’s worth. On a local DC station last night a navy pilot, who also flew commercial, matter of factly said the amount of aircraft congestion circling RR, in his opinion, is one of, if not the worst in the U.S. to deal with. 

 

 

[Back2Buff]

I'm struggling with how this happens.  On the video I linked, start the video at 23 secs.  For over a minute, they are literally heading right for each other.  So many of the videos you see is just the last second, but this video you can see for a long time something should have been done.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/refile-moment-surveillance-footage-of-midair-collision-between-american-airlines-plane-and-us-army-helicopter/vi-AA1y6P7U?ocid=socialshare&pc=U531&cvid=d430e8bb87944839bb2ab1ce6e8b7bfd&ei=10

[sherpa]

Ya, the Reagan area is really congested, but corridors are in place to prevent traffic conflicts.

I'm not familiar with what helo operations are in place to de-conflict, but having a helo operating at the same time on the approach path to runway 33 is nuts.

Helo ops from the Pentagon and other stuff up and down the river are very normal, but well below departures, .

The entire airport is a bit weird.

When the Pres leaves the WH on Marine 1 on his way to Andrews or back or wherever, they stop all takeoffs and landings at Reagan.

Takes about 20 mins.

 

Landing to the south, because you fly very close to the WH, (that area is called prohibited area 56), you have to do a series of turns over the river and only get the the runway centerline very close to touchdown. Quite sporty in a 757, which is the largest airplane allowed to land there.

Taking off to the north, you have to do an immediate left turn to avoid it.

 

The place has other quirks.

For instance, the employee parking lot is on the south end of the airport, on the river.

To scare away birds, they have an audio of predatory birds and distressed birds, along with shotgun sounds that plays in a loop all day from that parking lot.

Know what they have at the north end of the airport?

An area which is a bird sanctuary.

Does that make sense to anyone not in the Federal Gov?

[sherpa]

7 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Apparently not. Trump at his self-aggrandizing, political score settling worst. I'll save the rest of that for PPP ...

 

@zow2 @sherpa - from what I've heard/read, no one has pointed to anything ATC did that was wrong? What is this about DEI? It seems utterly irrelevant if ATC did things correctly here.

 

Maybe we want to create a different Potomac corridor for military flights?

 

 

 

ATC is a complicated term for the non aware, but the "tower" is responsible for the immediate low altitude area.

At some distance, you are handed off from approach control, who sequences you with other traffic, to the tower, which controls takeoff and landing.

This airspace would have been in that purview.

Flying an airliner involves trust in these guys, and getting bopped within a few miles of the runway is completely unacceptable.

I'm not aware that the helo guy was disregarding ATC, but I am immediately reminded of something an instructor told me when going through basic Navy jet training.

He said that at one time or another, a controller will try to kill you, and that happened a few times over a 40 year career flying off carriers and doing the airline thing.

This Reagan thing is screwed up airspace, and if there is a systemic problem, it needs to fixed.

But, one way or another, those two aircraft should not have met, and that is an ATC thing, unless there was a direct disregard from whoever was flying them.