Hot Take: Does Bobby Babich Lose His Job?

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

Bills offence wasn't perfect, but at the end of the day they scored 29 points on the road against a good defence. That should be enough.

Where does the line end- If the bills are Losing 48-45 but they don't score on the last drive of the game, is that still the offences fault? Or does the defence need to make more stops earlier in the game?

 

WRONG! 29 is not "good enough." You needed 3 more. You failed.

 

Nothing that happened before Josh getting the ball matters. You had the game in your hands and you fell short. End of story.

[uticaclub]

Isn't the Special Teams Coordinator the one being blamed this time?

[colin]

28 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Ooooh, you came with stats! 🙄 

 

Bottom line: the D made enough plays to get Josh the ball to win/tie the game. That's the game, not your fancy stats 

 

the defense was one fluke fumble loss from allowing a TD on all four of their first half possessions.  the ball was out fast and for a high YPA, they allowed more points than kc has scored all season.  they sucked.

 

the bills o had a chance to score with not much time left in the game, sure, but points count for the same in all four quarters.  if the d had forced a turnover or made an actual stop in the first quarter, the 7 points that came off the board then would count just the same as in any other.

[JP51]

I would like to see a defensive mind hired in here... relegate Babich, fire him dont care... I will tell you why I have this take... I am looking at this past the over all production in defensive rankings etc... the defensive change here was enormous... the players were not talented enough and I get it.... this you cannot blame all on the coach per se... 

 

Here are my problems... 

 

1. Player regression under Babich, I thought the majority of the players regressed in play this year.... Oliver, Jones, Elam. Bernard, Douglas, Epenesa, Groot stayed the same in a potential contract year...  David Edwards I just wonder what happened there... but in the end when you see players go backwards and young players not improve I start to wonder if the coaching is good. LBs Safeties not shedding blocks... no penetration or real pass rush...  I struggle to find a player on that defense that really developed and upped thier game over last year... maybe Rapp? maybe Hamiln? Not sure if that is because they just got more playing time and the body of work was there.... 

 

2. 2nd half improvement - dont get me wrong, I love our ability to adjust at half time... even coming out in the 2nd half like a bit of a different Defense.... what I dont like is the spotting of 30 minutes to the other team... the lack of game plan anticipation that says... Hey these guys have seen us on tape... they are going to do this to exploit that... so we are gonna do this in anticipation... Belicheck Reid heck Parcells were masters at that ... I saw no real anticipation from Babich with regard to what other teams were going to do... I saw him adjusting after they did it... props to him... but Defensive Guru in game planning he is not. 

 

Maybe he improves... maybe he is just limited... but I am not gonna complain if they go get a great defensive mind push him to the side and take McD out of the room as a I used to work here guy... 

 

my 2... well that was long... my 4 cents... 

Edited 7 hours ago by JP51

[LarryMadman]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

He won't lose him job I don't think. Talent wise this is the worst D we have fielded since 2017 and that will give him some leeway. But I think he goes into next year very much on the hotseat. 

How is that possible, seems as all the Bills do is draft defense and spend huge $$$ on defensive FA.

[SectionC3]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

He won't lose him job I don't think. Talent wise this is the worst D we have fielded since 2017 and that will give him some leeway. But I think he goes into next year very much on the hotseat. 

It would be pretty awkward for the kids at practice if Babich goes. 

[nosejob]

5 minutes ago, JP51 said:

I would like to see a defensive mind hired in here... relegate Babich, fire him dont care... I will tell you why I have this take... I am looking at this past the over all production in defensive rankings etc... the defensive change here was enormous... the players were not talented enough and I get it.... this you cannot blame all on the coach per se... 

 

Here are my problems... 

 

1. Player regression under Babich, I thought the majority of the players regressed in play this year.... Oliver, Jones, Elam. Bernard, Douglas, Epenesa, Groot stayed the same in a potential contract year...  David Edwards I just wonder what happened there... but in the end when you see players go backwards and young players not improve I start to wonder if the coaching is good. LBs Safeties not shedding blocks... no penetration or real pass rush...  I struggle to find a player on that defense that really developed and upped thier game over last year... maybe Rapp? maybe Hamiln? Not sure if that is because they just got more playing time and the body of work was there.... 

 

2. 2nd half improvement - dont get me wrong, I love our ability to adjust at half time... even coming out in the 2nd half like a bit of a different Defense.... what I dont like is the spotting of 30 minutes to the other team... the lack of game plan anticipation that says... Hey these guys have seen us on tape... they are going to do this to exploit that... so we are gonna do this in anticipation... Belicheck Reid heck Parcells were masters at that ... I saw no real anticipation from Babich with regard to what other teams were going to do... I saw him adjusting after they did it... props to him... but Defensive Guru in game planning he is not. 

 

Maybe he improves... maybe he is just limited... but I am not gonna complain if they go get a great defensive mind push him to the side and take McD out of the room as a I used to work here guy... 

 

my 2... well that was long... my 4 cents... 

1. We need a proven mind. Let McD do the HC thing. Fire Smiley and demote Babich (change title).

2. We need a different Philosophy...predicated on attack style and quit the rush 4 only zone crap.

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, LarryMadman said:

How is that possible, seems as all the Bills do is draft defense and spend huge $$$ on defensive FA.

 

The last couple of years they have not drafted a ton of defense in the early rounds or spent that much on defensive FAs. They have moved their investment to offense somewhat. 

 

The issue in the draft is they have three first rounders in a row that have not played to expectations to varying degrees.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

Why the hell would be do that? If anything, we are on the horn to the Saints offering a trade if they wanted to go in another direction.

 

Yes, I want to see more. Yes, he relied upon too many Josh runs for short yardage without having a backup plan.

 

But seriously, while there isn't a perfect stat, the Bills were 2nd in the league in EPA/play at 0.18. For reference, the "historic Ravens offense" was #1 at 0.21, while the Lions were 0.15. 

 

The offense was 4th in points per game, and we all know that for a lot of them had the Bills been willing to put the petal to the metal we could have put up more, but there was no need to take those risks. All with one player cracking 800 yards receiving. Cook had a great year, but even then we didn't put so much tread on him that 

 

How much of that is Josh? Part of it, I am sure. But what we saw looks like something we could do again, and do better.

 

 

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

WRONG! 29 is not "good enough." You needed 3 more. You failed.

 

Nothing that happened before Josh getting the ball matters. You had the game in your hands and you fell short. End of story.

So the bills defence is that bad, that we need to score 30 plus points every playoff game against elite defences?

 

Thats just an unrealistic expectation. Got to win ugly sometimes.

 

Chiefs won the championship game last year 17-10- And to my knowledge, this is the first time they scored 30 in a playoff game in years

[ganesh]

20 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

First off... If I were to bet, I would bet saying no he doesn't get fired because it was his 1st year

 

BUT... I think it is at least a discussion worth having, and that he will be on thin ice next season.

 

Some stats that are pretty alarming:

 

29th on 3rd downs

Let up the 4th most first downs in the league. 

23rd in passing yards allowed and 8th most passing TDS allowed. (Insane compared to years in the past)

 

And in the biggest game of the year against KC with two starters out in the secondary, I believe Joe Marino stated they played man around 44 percent of the time...

 

I am trying not to make this a Sean Mcdermott discussion, as we get it as it is his scheme.

 

But inarguably, the Bills defence outside of turnovers? Was pretty much a disaster this season and Bobby B didn't have many answers.

 

What do you think about Babich going forward?

How many of these issues are due to scheme vs execution.   

[SoonerBillsFan]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

WRONG! 29 is not "good enough." You needed 3 more. You failed.

 

Nothing that happened before Josh getting the ball matters. You had the game in your hands and you fell short. End of story.

And we now know Josh played with a broken throwing hand the 2nd half.

[BillsFan130]

31 minutes ago, ganesh said:

How many of these issues are due to scheme vs execution.   

Im More referring to play calling/game plans. Because the scheme is McDermotts.

 

I think there's blame for execution and for the play calling and it's rarely just one thing 

[SoonerBillsFan]

No, and nor should he. he is a 1st year play caller and that is a huge adjustment. He will improve.

[BillsFan130]

20 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

No, and nor should he. he is a 1st year play caller and that is a huge adjustment. He will improve.

That's what a lot of us said about Ken Dorsey as well, just saying .. haha

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, nosejob said:

1. We need a proven mind. Let McD do the HC thing. Fire Smiley and demote Babich (change title).

2. We need a different Philosophy...predicated on attack style and quit the rush 4 only zone crap.

Has anyone been demoted from Coordinator to a lesser role after one season ?

Better thing to do is bring in a Senior Defensive "advisor"

Mentor Babich into a new and changed Defense.

I i was his operation manager , I would get him more tools to succeed. 

 Hey I am not on the inside , sitting in meetings here so have no idea if he is struggling ( dont guess so )
 

Defense needs to switch up how they scheme for the season. Multiples is hard to do. But if you want to definitively change out from the McDermott Frazier Defense ?

 Bring in an expert to lead the way behind the scenes

But much higher on my list ? Is a few more elite players.

Imagine if we had Benford and a shut down quality corner.

Two Edge rushers that each needed extra attention?

Wouldn't that be funner ? ☺️

1 hour ago, BillsFan130 said:

That's what a lot of us said about Ken Dorsey as well, just saying .. haha

I sure as f didn't. Ken was a freak show after the "Scene in the Booth". lol

and his lack of depth setting up plays for the next play etc

[ProcessTruster]

23 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

First off... If I were to bet, I would bet saying no he doesn't get fired because it was his 1st year

 

BUT... I think it is at least a discussion worth having, and that he will be on thin ice next season.

 

Some stats that are pretty alarming:

 

29th on 3rd downs

Let up the 4th most first downs in the league. 

23rd in passing yards allowed and 8th most passing TDS allowed. (Insane compared to years in the past)

 

And in the biggest game of the year against KC with two starters out in the secondary, I believe Joe Marino stated they played man around 44 percent of the time...

 

I am trying not to make this a Sean Mcdermott discussion, as we get it as it is his scheme.

 

But inarguably, the Bills defence outside of turnovers? Was pretty much a disaster this season and Bobby B didn't have many answers.

 

What do you think about Babich going forward?

 

And replace him with who exactly?   

 

I am becoming irritated with all these firing requests where the alternative (and their qualifications and why they would be better) is never put forward.   

[BillsFan130]

28 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

 

And replace him with who exactly?   

 

I am becoming irritated with all these firing requests where the alternative (and their qualifications and why they would be better) is never put forward.   

Lol where in my post did you see me say: "I want Bobby Babich fired".. ?

 

I listed a few stats that showed his defence had a poor year, and opened a discussion whether there is a chance he might get fired before or during the 2025 season. 

 

With all due respect, not sure why that is so irritiating to you as never once did I say "fire him"- As  it is purely a discussion

Edited 2 hours ago by BillsFan130

[PromoTheRobot]

5 hours ago, colin said:

 

the defense was one fluke fumble loss from allowing a TD on all four of their first half possessions.  the ball was out fast and for a high YPA, they allowed more points than kc has scored all season.  they sucked.

 

the bills o had a chance to score with not much time left in the game, sure, but points count for the same in all four quarters.  if the d had forced a turnover or made an actual stop in the first quarter, the 7 points that came off the board then would count just the same as in any other.

 

Are you the kind of fan who counts winning quarters?

3 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

So the bills defence is that bad, that we need to score 30 plus points every playoff game against elite defences?

 

Thats just an unrealistic expectation. Got to win ugly sometimes.

 

Chiefs won the championship game last year 17-10- And to my knowledge, this is the first time they scored 30 in a playoff game in years

 

Bottom line, our offense had the chance to win. The defense gave Josh the ball with enough time to win the game. You can run away from that fact all you want. It doesn't change reality.

3 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

And we now know Josh played with a broken throwing hand the 2nd half.

 

Refs, injuries, Tay Tay, it's always something with us.

[BillsFan130]

3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Are you the kind of fan who counts winning quarters?

 

Bottom line, our offense had the chance to win. The defense gave Josh the ball with enough time to win the game. You can run away from that fact all you want. It doesn't change reality.

I understand that- But the only reason they had a chance to win at the end was because they engineered 4 TDs and a FG against an elite defence , on the road. Which is extremely challenging to do against a Spags defence 

 

The last team to do that in KC in a playoff game, were the bills in the 13 seconds game. That's how tough/rare it is