Hot Take: Does Bobby Babich Lose His Job?

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, Billsfanatic8989 said:

Isn't this McD's defense? Doesn't everything go by him?

 

There have been different DC's. Yet...the results are the same. 

In my opening post: "I'm not trying to make this a Sean McDermott discussion as we all get it's his scheme".

About 15 posts in this thread: "it's Sean McDermotts defence!"🤦‍♂️

Edited 6 hours ago by BillsFan130

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Run it back. It hasn’t worked for 7 years, I got a feeling the 8th will just magically change. Teams with even more tape on it…no coach gets this many tries, it’s Tony Dungy Bucs. Keep trying I’m sure this defense that’s only getting worse will just have a day. Hoping to win 53-49 with 3 or 4 turnovers and then being afraid to move on from the continuity. What a disgrace. Keep McDermott here. I don’t care. Just make him the HC. Nothing else. You do not call or influence the Defense 

[streetkings01]

Knowing McDermott and how likes fall guy for end of season failures…..Babich gets fired soon or during the 2025 season.

[T master]

15 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

First off... If I were to bet, I would bet saying no he doesn't get fired because it was his 1st year

 

BUT... I think it is at least a discussion worth having, and that he will be on thin ice next season.

 

Some stats that are pretty alarming:

 

29th on 3rd downs

Let up the 4th most first downs in the league. 

23rd in passing yards allowed and 8th most passing TDS allowed. (Insane compared to years in the past)

 

And in the biggest game of the year against KC with two starters out in the secondary, I believe Joe Marino stated they played man around 44 percent of the time...

 

I am trying not to make this a Sean Mcdermott discussion, as we get it as it is his scheme.

 

But inarguably, the Bills defence outside of turnovers? Was pretty much a disaster this season and Bobby B didn't have many answers.

 

What do you think about Babich going forward?

 

Could some of this have a direct link to what players he had at his disposal ? I think we all could say he didn't have many if any Elite talent to work with he did have some really good players but they for sure weren't on the secondary so he had to try to put a bandaid on a lot of things to try to make them work and in the Baltimore game had a good plan at first .

 

He also during the season made some good adjustments at half time on some teams to make a difference . I think he will be back and Beane will bring in some players that can help him and the D be better than this season .

[Don Otreply]

16 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

First off... If I were to bet, I would bet saying no he doesn't get fired because it was his 1st year

 

BUT... I think it is at least a discussion worth having, and that he will be on thin ice next season.

 

Some stats that are pretty alarming:

 

29th on 3rd downs

Let up the 4th most first downs in the league. 

23rd in passing yards allowed and 8th most passing TDS allowed. (Insane compared to years in the past)

 

And in the biggest game of the year against KC with two starters out in the secondary, I believe Joe Marino stated they played man around 44 percent of the time...

 

I am trying not to make this a Sean Mcdermott discussion, as we get it as it is his scheme.

 

But inarguably, the Bills defence outside of turnovers? Was pretty much a disaster this season and Bobby B didn't have many answers.

 

What do you think about Babich going forward?

Why make up a scenario that even you think isn’t realistic, and then think it’s worth a discussion? 
 

but I’ll bite, 
 

Babich is a McDermott disciple, he takes his direction from Sean, everyone knows this, our defense has not markedly changed in what, seven plus years…, we employ a defensive scheme that was relevant fifteen or more years ago, we can’t stop the run or the quick pass, because of the soft zone / contain defense we play, and we don’t have the personnel to have a hope in hell to do so, especially against top tier teams and coaches, we have watched this play out annually. 
 

Nuthin but luv, but we need a scheme change on defense in the worst way…, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

[GunnerBill]

He won't lose him job I don't think. Talent wise this is the worst D we have fielded since 2017 and that will give him some leeway. But I think he goes into next year very much on the hotseat. 

[BillsFan130]

14 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Why make up a scenario that even you think isn’t realistic, and then think it’s worth a discussion? 
 

but I’ll bite, 
 

Babich is a McDermott disciple, he takes his direction from Sean, everyone knows this, our defense has not markedly changed in what, seven plus years…, we employ a defensive scheme that was relevant fifteen or more years ago, we can’t stop the run or the quick pass, because of the soft zone / contain defense we play, and we don’t have the personnel to have a hope in hell to do so, especially against top tier teams and coaches, we have watched this play out annually. 
 

Nuthin but luv, but we need a scheme change on defense in the worst way…, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

I should have worded it better- i do think it's very realistic he can lose his job before the 2025 season ends. (Like mid way through)

 

 

But no I don't think he will get fired before the season starts, although I'm not ruling it out 

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

He won't lose him job I don't think. Talent wise this is the worst D we have fielded since 2017 and that will give him some leeway. But I think he goes into next year very much on the hotseat. 

Ya this is pretty much where I stand- If they start off slow, could be another Ken Dorsey situation where he's fired after a year and a half

[Billsfanatic8989]

1 hour ago, BillsFan130 said:

In my opening post: "I'm not trying to make this a Sean McDermott discussion as we all get it's his scheme".

About 15 posts in this thread: "it's Sean McDermotts defence!"🤦‍♂️

But how can you separate Babich from McD? The same scheme issues happened with Frazier.

 

 

[BillsFan130]

3 minutes ago, Billsfanatic8989 said:

But how can you separate Babich from McD? The same scheme issues happened with Frazier.

 

 

Play calling. Babich calls the plays which of course will have an impact on the results of the defence .

 

It's not like a Matt Nagy situation in KC where Nagy is the OC , but doesn't call the plays 

Edited 6 hours ago by BillsFan130

[Sojourner]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

That’s the problem.  It’s not for lack of trying.  He’s tried to address major defensive needs with big swings and they backfired and set the team back further.    
 

In 2018, the interior was ***** so they overpaid Star Lotulelei to be the solid 1TDT and he sucked after 2019.  So they were stuck with his contract which limited what they could do.

 

In 2020, it was obvious they needed to get younger pass rushers, so Epinesa was drafted and he didn’t do much.   So the position was a bigger need in 2021.  They drafted Rosseau and Basham but found they needed a lot of time.  
 

In 2022, since they failed at finding a pass rusher, Beane needed to take a major swing and sign Von Miller to be the star DE and mentor.  It worked well for about 10 weeks until he tore his ACL.  Between the draft capital and money tied into his contract, they could only afford modest FA’s.

 

Putting so many resources into the Defensive Line and failing to find at least one consistently impactful player really hurt the team

Also, Beane had the right idea in 2022 to draft a CB but drafting and missing on Elam hurt badly. 

I always stress and try and stick up for Sean and Brandon but sometimes errors and misses start catching up to you. Double downing on sticking up for them though, for all their misses they’ve still be one of the absolute best teams in football. That is largely due to Josh, sure. But it’s not by random luck the team with all its fallacies plays hard. 
 

My issues with them is the resources, financially and draft picks, they’ve invested in fixing just one positional group on the whole team. 

 

Like you nicely said, big swings. Those big swings turned into big misses. The whole moves you listed is an absolute mess and still doesn’t truly show the mass moves they’ve made to address the issues. 

 

At some point you have to stop using premium picks on a position that’s not working for you. Groot is quality, but not an elite pass rusher. He’s like a lab built

Chris Kelsey lol

 

The Von addition was the right method, just the wrong player. Too old for what you were paying. If they’re going to go big for the position again, I get why so many people beg for the Garrett/Crosby trades. Im right there with them. 
 

 

The Elam pick has turned into a complete dud. However, miss isn’t that big of a deal to me in isolation for CB. They drafted Taron, Benford and acquired Douglas (who was quality for a period). The secondary misses are few and far between. 
 

But! When you add it to the rest of the selections they’ve made early in the draft, Josh/Tremaine and Cook aside, they’ve not done well. Which sucks even more. If they made hits on more than 50% of those picks, I think they have a Lombardi to show for it. 

 

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

 

Ya this is pretty much where I stand- If they start off slow, could be another Ken Dorsey situation where he's fired after a year and a half

 

He needs some help from Brandon though. Rolling this Dline and secondary out next year is not gonna do it. 

[colin]

1 hour ago, Rocky Landing said:

I don't have to look forward, no. I choose to.

lol wat

 

im just saying you can look back and answer the question of what mcds d looks like w a ton of picks and money invested -- it is historically awful come playoff time.

[BillsFan130]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He needs some help from Brandon though. Rolling this Dline and secondary out next year is not gonna do it. 

I agree. I do think a lot of help is coming. I wouldn't be surprised if the bills first 3 round draft picks (in no particular order) are DE, DT and CB.

 

Almost 100 percent chance they will invest in some mid tier veterans as well

[bmur66]

Not as long as he does what the boss tells him to do

[Rocky Landing]

30 minutes ago, colin said:

lol wat

 

im just saying you can look back and answer the question of what mcds d looks like w a ton of picks and money invested -- it is historically awful come playoff time.

That ignores a lot of factors, including the concept that McDermott can improve as a coach from season to season. I think we probably both agree that the defensive roster in '22 was far better than in '24.

[PromoTheRobot]

17 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

First off... If I were to bet, I would bet saying no he doesn't get fired because it was his 1st year

 

BUT... I think it is at least a discussion worth having, and that he will be on thin ice next season.

 

Some stats that are pretty alarming:

 

29th on 3rd downs

Let up the 4th most first downs in the league. 

23rd in passing yards allowed and 8th most passing TDS allowed. (Insane compared to years in the past)

 

And in the biggest game of the year against KC with two starters out in the secondary, I believe Joe Marino stated they played man around 44 percent of the time...

 

I am trying not to make this a Sean Mcdermott discussion, as we get it as it is his scheme.

 

But inarguably, the Bills defence outside of turnovers? Was pretty much a disaster this season and Bobby B didn't have many answers.

 

What do you think about Babich going forward?

 

Players have to make plays.

 

And actually the Bills defense made enough plays to win the game. If you give Josh the ball, down 3 with 3 minutes left, that's on the offense to get it done.

Edited 4 hours ago by PromoTheRobot

[colin]

Just now, Rocky Landing said:

That ignores a lot of factors, including the concept that McDermott can improve as a coach from season to season. I think we probably both agree that the defensive roster in '22 was far better than in '24.

oh, it certainly was, and better in the 2021 season, and i'd say at least as good if not better in the 2023 season.  exact same results every time, historically bad defense in the playoffs.  schematically and philosophically we impose almost no difficulty on opposing offenses.  

 

honestly, a big part of it is how absolutely scared of deep passes we are.  on the qb school recap which was posted on this board (great youtube channel for x and o stuff) they guy was going on a bit about how we had a deep safety in the red zone, about how we had linebackers behind the line and sort of just kinda pre eliminated from getting to whichever edge kc chose to attack.

 

the kc attack vs us was so quick (i think we might have really over keyed on the inside runs, which we shut down but we had zero to the edges when mahomes just waddled in for tubs) that no level of pass rush from the front four would have impacted it very much.  we had unblocked ends (by their design) on several pass plays and it didn't even hurry mahomes.  our failure was at the back end, both because our talent is azz, and because schematically we are so afraid of a deep pass, seemingly even in the red zone, that we have guys back and can't do much to trick and disguise.  

7 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Players have to make plays.

 

And actually the Bills defense made enough plays to win the game. If you give Josh the ball, down 3 with 3 minutes left, that's on the offense to get it done.

 

mahomes had his highest epa game of the season and the highest success rate of his entire career.  he's never once had a game where first downs came easier.  in no way, in any world, did the defense make enough plays to win the game.  they were horrible.

[Nihilarian]

Name one player on the Buffalo defense that is elite? (besides Matt Milano who is coming off an injury) Buffalo doesn't have a Chris Jones.

 

Rousseau had 8 sacks and that ranks 27th...meaning 27 other players had more sacks.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/view/defense/season/2024/seasontype/2/table/defensive/sort/sacks/dir/desc

 

The Bills really need a bunch of upgrades on the defensive side. The Bills hands were kind of tied in the FA market because of the 30 million dollar cap hit from Diggs and the team was better off without him. Von Miller returning from an injury wasn't quite the same as he was in his first year in Buffalo.

 

Expect a much better defense this season. Beane the magic man will make things happen. 😊

[PromoTheRobot]

16 minutes ago, colin said:

 

mahomes had his highest epa game of the season and the highest success rate of his entire career.  he's never once had a game where first downs came easier.  in no way, in any world, did the defense make enough plays to win the game.  they were horrible.

 

Ooooh, you came with stats! 🙄 

 

Bottom line: the D made enough plays to get Josh the ball to win/tie the game. That's the game, not your fancy stats 

Edited 4 hours ago by PromoTheRobot

[BillsFan130]

25 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Players have to make plays.

 

And actually the Bills defense made enough plays to win the game. If you give Josh the ball, down 3 with 3 minutes left, that's on the offense to get it done.

Bills offence wasn't perfect, but at the end of the day they scored 29 points on the road against a good defence. That should be enough.

Where does the line end- If the bills are Losing 48-45 but they don't score on the last drive of the game, is that still the offences fault? Or does the defence need to make more stops earlier in the game?