It Goes Back to 13 Seconds, Doesn't It?

[MJS]

11 hours ago, JohnNord said:

People need to watch this video.  The crux of the argument is that is comes down to high-level talent.  The Bills roster is solid but it’s missing those impact players needed to win a championship.   Brandon Beane needs to build the top of the roster better.  

 

A few quotes in the event that you don’t:

 

”The Bills don’t have a coaching problem, they have a Chiefs problem.”

 

”Coaches set the floor.  Players set the ceiling”

 

”Depth can win you divisions, but it’s not going to win you a championship.”

 

 

This is what I've been saying for years. The Bills need ELITE players. You need at least three of them, and one of them needs to be the QB. The Chiefs have Mahomes, Kelce, and Jones. The Bills have Allen. They have some really good players, but no elite ones besides him. Maybe Cook stepped into that realm this year. We'll see how that goes.

[colin]

19 minutes ago, Sojourner said:

Lol

 

That doesn’t help the accuracy of a Marvin Lewis comparison

didn't lewis get a chip as a dc w baltimore?

 

i might have to draft an apology to lewis for the comparison!

[Sojourner]

11 minutes ago, MJS said:

This is what I've been saying for years. The Bills need ELITE players. You need at least three of them, and one of them needs to be the QB. The Chiefs have Mahomes, Kelce, and Jones. The Bills have Allen. They have some really good players, but no elite ones besides him. Maybe Cook stepped into that realm this year. We'll see how that goes.

Kelce isn’t elite anymore. But you’re right you need more. 
 

The Chiefs have a few of them outside of Pat. A few on their Online alone. 
 

The defense? I hate to say it but Karlaftis and McDuffie certainly have shown traits of elite defenders. Especially in the playoffs. GK was their best defender last week. 

[Chicken Boo]

And the Chiefs lost to the Bengals the following week.

 

How are people magically propelling the Bills past the Bengals and Rams to a Lombardi?  

[Sojourner]

Just now, Chicken Boo said:

And the Chiefs lost to the Bengals the following week.

 

How are people magically propelling the Bills past the Bengals and Rams to a Lombardi?  

It’s a coping mechanism. I bet it was working wel before the reality kicked in from your comment lol

[GoBills808]

10 minutes ago, Sojourner said:

Kelce isn’t elite anymore. But you’re right you need more. 
 

The Chiefs have a few of them outside of Pat. A few on their Online alone. 
 

The defense? I hate to say it but Karlaftis and McDuffie certainly have shown traits of elite defenders. Especially in the playoffs. GK was their best defender last week. 

Taron Johnson is elite

[Sojourner]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Taron Johnson is elite

Agree. Cook showed me he’s elite. Milano has/can be. Benford looks to be of top end quality for stretches. 
 

There’s a few pieces. They just unfortunately are consistent with the highest level of their play. Big problem. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Sojourner said:

Agree. Cook showed me he’s elite. Milano has/can be. Benford looks to be of top end quality for stretches. 
 

There’s a few pieces. They just unfortunately are consistent with the highest level of their play. Big problem. 

I didn't look at the game we just played and see a big difference in rosters, maybe that's just me

[SirAndrew]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I didn't look at the game we just played and see a big difference in rosters, maybe that's just me

We shouldn’t keep losing to KC in the playoffs by just a few points if the talent disparity is great as some claim. The games wouldn’t be that close. 

Edited 9 hours ago by SirAndrew

[Sojourner]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

I didn't look at the game we just played and see a big difference in rosters, maybe that's just me

Sure, I can see that the gap isn’t massive and kind of agree. However the gap comes to on field product. And not just coaching. Players just don’t show up who are more than capable of high end play. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, SirAndrew said:

We shouldn’t keep losing to KC in the playoffs by just a few points if the talent disparity is great as some claim. The games wouldn’t be that close. 

the first year in the AFCCG it was

 

but every year since then we've had comparable talent imo

Just now, Sojourner said:

Sure, I can see that the gap isn’t massive and kind of agree. However the gap comes to on field product. And not just coaching. Players just don’t show up who are more than capable of high end play. 

I don't see how you can look at otherwise capable, high level players (who have just performed up to ability the entire season) suddenly and inevitably revert to poor play in the biggest moments and conclude it's NOT coaching tbh

[corta765]

I am sorry but it does not go back to 13 seconds and to me that game has forever been overblown. 13 seconds is a symptom just like the loss Sunday of the teams inability to breakthrough whether due to coaching, failed execution, ref calls, bad luck, or 17 himself not being at his best. I understand why people harp on 13 seconds but it fails to acknowledge:

 

1. The game did not get them to the SB

2. They had to win two more games to actually win the SB.

3. CIN was an absolute nightmare in 21 and 22 as shown by our loss. Just because the AFC title game was at home was no lock by any means that they would win and the Rams themselves were a more then formidable foe in that SB.

 

13 seconds is romanticized as the one because the offense was at its peak at the right time and it was year 3 of the rebuild so it still felt fresh and new. It fails to ignore reality that they did not win the SB that day and much work was needed to do that. Where I am in agreement with 13 seconds is that is when Camelot fell in terms of no criticism of coach/gm and the Bills finally missed their first chance at a good look at the SB. Up until this game everything had felt like progress and building, 13 seconds was the first fall nothing more.

 

If the Bills keep spinning their tires and don't breakthrough long term 24' will look like a far larger miss than 13 seconds.

27 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

And the Chiefs lost to the Bengals the following week.

 

How are people magically propelling the Bills past the Bengals and Rams to a Lombardi?  

Fits their narrative. It has been my biggest complaint with fans about 13 seconds is that somehow they not only beat KC but somehow won 2 other games and the SB in the divisional round. Major miss? Absolutely. Worse than this last Sunday? No way.

[Just Jack]

The Bengals would have had to come to Buffalo for the conference championship.  

Edited 8 hours ago by Just Jack

[Sojourner]

30 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

the first year in the AFCCG it was

 

but every year since then we've had comparable talent imo

I don't see how you can look at otherwise capable, high level players (who have just performed up to ability the entire season) suddenly and inevitably revert to poor play in the biggest moments and conclude it's NOT coaching tbh

 

Ok man. If you want to lump every failing a grown man has for making the wrong play or no play as a “has to be coaching” scenario, you’re very much entitled to. More power to you. 
 

I played one year D2 and transferred to a D1 program for two years years before getting my leg snapped in two in summer. I can attest that the step before NFL that the best guys make errors that have nothing to do with the coaching. Missed tackles, blown assignments, wrong reads, seeing something and decide to jump it/break gap integrity…

 

If you think that isn’t common place in the pros, again more power to you. 
 

Not implying you’re wrong but putting it all on coaches contains some naivety imo. 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Sojourner said:

 

Ok man. If you want to lump every failing a grown man has for making the wrong play or no play as a “has to be coaching” scenario, you’re very much entitled to. More power to you. 
 

I played one year D2 and transferred to a D1 program for two years years before getting my leg snapped in two in summer. I can attest that the step before NFL that the best guys make errors that have nothing to do with the coaching. Missed tackles, blown assignments, wrong reads, seeing something and decide to jump it/break gap integrity…

 

If you think that isn’t common place in the pros, again more power to you. 
 

Not implying you’re wrong but putting it all on coaches contains some naivety imo. 

Again- go up and down the rosters. Watch the game. We weren't at some major talent disadvantage

 

Their guys were prepared and had answers. Ours didn't and suffered for it. Explain it how you want

[HappyDays]

40 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I don't see how you can look at otherwise capable, high level players (who have just performed up to ability the entire season) suddenly and inevitably revert to poor play in the biggest moments and conclude it's NOT coaching tbh

 

Yes a few things jump out from this game. A few plays KC is in bunch set and all our guys are lined up at the exact same depth which creates easy rub opportunities. That's coaching not talent. On Worthy's TD Hamlin gets manned up 1v1 against him. Ok so yes that's a talent discrepancy but the obvious mismatch happens because of coaching. Our final offensive series was not about talent at all, it was Spags beating Brady on 4 consecutive plays. Mahomes had the highest success rate per dropback of his entire career and this is not close to the best offensive cast he's had around him. Mahomes was able to scramble and get out of the pocket almost at will, while KC successfully contained Allen - Mahomes scrambled 6 times, Allen scrambled 1 time.

 

All of this points to a much larger coaching gap than talent gap. We just got through our 8th season with McDermott and what has improved since his 1st? More 4th down aggressiveness I guess? You'd think he'd have some of the finer coaching details down at this point but there's no improvement year over year.

[Sojourner]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Again- go up and down the rosters. Watch the game. We weren't at some major talent disadvantage

 

Their guys were prepared and had answers. Ours didn't and suffered for it. Explain it how you want

There is no explanation lol. 
 

I’ve posted this a couple of times but please, as I’m very intrigued that you’re so staunch its coaching, explain the coaching error here…

 

 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Sojourner said:

There is no explanation lol. 
 

I’ve posted this a couple of times but please, as I’m very intrigued that you’re so staunch its coaching, explain the coaching error here…

 

 

what is that i cant see it

 

[GoBills808]

19 minutes ago, Sojourner said:

There is no explanation lol. 
 

I’ve posted this a couple of times but please, as I’m very intrigued that you’re so staunch its coaching, explain the coaching error here…

 

 

ok i can see it now, this was the 2nd down call on chiefs last drive

 

well for starters we aren't ready for their quick snap and beyond that it's a bad rep from Hamlin to not get over Gray...probably illegal contact on #84 tbh but that's why the Chiefs are the Chiefs and we are coming in 2nd to them every time

 

do you think this play shows their talent outshining ours? It's just the superior playcall

[Sojourner]

9 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

ok i can see it now, this was the 2nd down call on chiefs last drive

 

well for starters we aren't ready for their quick snap and beyond that it's a bad rep from Hamlin to not get over Gray...probably illegal contact on #84 tbh but that's why the Chiefs are the Chiefs and we are coming in 2nd to them every time

 

do you think this play shows their talent outshining ours? It's just the superior playcall

If you’re on the field. You’re ready. Call was made in. They knew the play and assignments. 5 guys getting it wrong isn’t coaching. 
 

3 of our best guys getting wiped out by Ju-Ju isn’t coaching. 
 

Im not arguing that coaching and Sean are not problems. Some of it is. It’s their players, their system and their calls. But that can only carry over so much. 
 

I think you are spot on that when you put the talent on both teams roster for roster, there’s not much different; just different areas of weakness & strength. 
 

However, in crunch time their players make little to no errors. Especially in the biggest moments. The failings we had on Sunday were play calling on offense that let us down mostly and vice versa for the defense, the players more than coaching were the failings.   
 

There’s a blend for sure. But again, when 5 players mess up on a game defining play, 3 of them your best players on that unit you can’t pin it on coaching. That’s a between the ears moment. Looks like a cal we sent in during my college years called “Down Right Rat”, whatever the terminology is for them I don’t know but it’s a similar alignment and responsibility scheme from what unfolded where essentially 4 guys responsible for 2 players. The 5th is more of a reaction/freelance that plays the box edge (which would be Groot). 
 

That play shows players more than no coaching. Again, I’m not stressing you’re wrong or unjustified in coaching errors being an issue. There is. But man, so many plays is just poor execution by a player/s.