It Goes Back to 13 Seconds, Doesn't It?

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, Sojourner said:

Kelce isn’t elite anymore. But you’re right you need more. 
 

The Chiefs have a few of them outside of Pat. A few on their Online alone. 
 

The defense? I hate to say it but Karlaftis and McDuffie certainly have shown traits of elite defenders. Especially in the playoffs. GK was their best defender last week. 

I wouldn’t put Karlaftis in the “elite” category but he’s a pretty good edge rusher in the same overall range as Greg Rosseau.  
 

Rosseau is better vs the run, Karlaftis as a pass rusher.

 

Justin Reid is pretty close to elite for a safety too

[zow2]

13 seconds would’ve wiped out the KC “mastery” over us and probably would have wiped out any irrational Bengals fear as we would’ve beaten them.  

 

Buffalo beats KC in the regular season and acts like they won the Super Bowl.  Meanwhile KC just pockets that little revenge motivation and pays us back in the playoffs.

[FieldGeneral]

I'm not a fan of saying, "such and such doesn't happen after such and such years", but there's a reason that no 1st time Super Bowl winning coach and QB has never made it passed 5 years. Owners realize that this coach/QB won't get it done and they move on from one of them. It's almost always the coach.

[Niagara Dude]

On 1/29/2025 at 4:41 PM, st pete gogolak said:

2020, Bills in AFCC.  Josh's third season.  He is right on schedule.  Bills got beat twice by the Chiefs, handily in each game.  No shame in that.  Chiefs were defending champs and clearly the better team.

 

2021.  Josh has perhaps the best two game stretch in NFL playoff history.  A win against the Chiefs totally breaks the narrative.  Breaks Chiefs consecutive AFCC appearance streak, breaks Reid and Mahones myth of invincibility as to the Bills in the playoffs, gives Josh a second straight AFCC and a shot at a Super Bowl appearance and perhaps a Super Bowl win (in hindsight, Super Bowl appearance was far from given.  Bengals went into KC and beat the Chiefs and we now know how much trouble the Bengals give us.  Although with the way Josh was playing, it would have been hard to bet against the Bills.)

 

We've seen what has happened the last three years.  Two more brutal heart-breaking losses to the Chiefs.  This nightmare won't end without a victory against the Chiefs in the playoffs or a Super Bowl appearance. 

 

I'm old enough to remember the four SB losses.  I would have been 100% in favor of moving on from Marv Levy because it was crystal clear we weren't going to win a Super Bowl under Levy.  Is the same true for McDermott?  I would be against that because I wouldn't trust Pegula to make the right call on a replacement (see Rex Ryan, 14 years of total dysfunction running the Sabres).  I would favor going outside the Bills' comfort zone in hiring a DC.  I think we desperately need a fresh look at our D. Finally, I remain optimistic about the next couple years.  Next year's team will be better than this year's team.  Jim Kelly didn't play in a Super Bowl until he was 30.  But next year is going to be crucial.  I think it will be our best shot to win it all and Beane should move heaven and earth to make it happen.

 

 

Marv at least got us to the big dance,  I doubt the Bills will ever make a Super Bowl with McDermott as the HC.  

[LABILLBACKER]

Yes, 13 seconds was a coaching abomination and gave us a little peek through the looking glass. McDermott makes the same mistakes Levy did. The only difference is Marv had multiple HOF players to screw up.  McDermott  has the greatest Bills qb we're ever going to see in our lifetime to screw up. In critical high leverage games, the coaching across the field is always better. It's just too exhausting to be a Bills fan.  And I'll never be able to convince the stubborn McD supporters to actually see what's right in front of their face.  It's pointless....

[DrBob806]

On 1/29/2025 at 8:25 PM, Bills!Win! said:

I think that our last game at highmark stadium will be a home afc championship game to keep the chiefs from going to their 4th straight Super Bowl. 
 

That’ll be one for the ages 

Bills win 5-3 in OT on a blocked punt out of the endzone, blizzard conditions.

[corta765]

20 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Yes, 13 seconds was a coaching abomination and gave us a little peek through the looking glass. McDermott makes the same mistakes Levy did. The only difference is Marv had multiple HOF players to screw up.  McDermott  has the greatest Bills qb we're ever going to see in our lifetime to screw up. In critical high leverage games, the coaching across the field is always better. It's just too exhausting to be a Bills fan.  And I'll never be able to convince the stubborn McD supporters to actually see what's right in front of their face.  It's pointless....

 

At this point I have just accepted that McD will be the coach for better or worse. He it probably a fringe top 10 guy in the league which means he is better than a lot but when he has to go against a Reid or coach of that caliber we are immediately at a disadvantage. To me in general the coach gm org itself is fringe top 10 but Allen raises the boats, Pegula knows if he touches it he risks losing the winning even though you can see a change could help. IF they actually ever break through its going to be because Josh was perfect and/or the defense finally makes some plays with competent enough coaching. But I am now pessimistic of even that happening anymore.

 

You made the point with Levy getting out coached. I watched a thing on one of the two SBs vs Dallas and Johnson literally trained his players fumble protection and for defense proper technique to create fumbles. He excelled at even small things like that. Come SB sure enough it pays off for Dallas. Levy & McD are great leaders of men and macro mgmt type coaches, but the finer points slip when the details matter. Honestly Joe Brady regardless of the AFC title game showed more to me in terms of detail in his season and half then anything McD has done.

Edited Friday at 06:13 PM by corta765

[LABILLBACKER]

On 1/30/2025 at 5:30 AM, Stuartjohn said:

Fire McDermott don’t waste Josh’s Prime!

It's too late. The window landing Ben Johnson / Jim Schwartz is over. I don't even trust Brady taking over this team. So basically like so many fans, I have to psychologically convince myself that winning 12 games every year and a playoff win is the pinnacle. We will hoist our Schotty trophy to the sky every year. 

[ToGoGo]

5 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

At this point I have just accepted that McD will be the coach for better or worse. He it probably a fringe top 10 guy in the league which means he is better than a lot but when he has to go against a Reid or coach of that caliber we are immediately at a disadvantage. To me in general the coach gm org itself is fringe top 10 but Allen raises the boats, Pegula knows if he touches it he risks losing the winning even though you can see a change could help. IF they actually ever break through its going to be because Josh was perfect and/or the defense finally makes some plays with competent enough coaching. But I am now pessimistic of even that happening anymore.

 

You made the point with Levy getting out coached. I watched a thing on one of the two SBs vs Dallas and Johnson literally trained his players fumble protection and for defense proper technique to create fumbles. He excelled at even small things like that. Come SB sure enough it pays off for Dallas. Levy & McD are great leaders of men and macro mgmt type coaches, but the finer points slip when the details matter. Honestly Joe Brady regardless of the AFC title game showed more to me in terms of detail in his season and half then anything McD has done.

 

What in the world are people talking about. McD fringe top 10? 

[Success]

Just now, ToGoGo said:

 

What in the world are people talking about. McD fringe top 10? 

 

I mean, that's kinda accurate, imo.

 

[buffblue]

On 1/29/2025 at 7:00 PM, Chugga said:

It always goes back to 13 seconds.  Everything goes back to 13 seconds.  Aside from wide right, 13 seconds is the closest thing the Bills have to a Super Bowl win because I guarantee you if the Bills win that game after Josh played the way he played there wasn’t an NFL team assembled that was going to stop this team.

 

Every year that ends in a tragic loss during Allen’s tenure will forever go back to 13 seconds.  That was the Super Bowl that should have been.

Yep, that and the first Super Bowl group in 1990. Those were the two best Bills teams in the modern era.

 

The 13 seconds game felt the Sabres losing Game 7 to the Hurricanes in the conference finals in 2006. Buffalo had their entire defense corps suffer injuries but was clearly the best team in hockey. The Sabres would've steamrolled the 8 seed Oilers in the Stanley Cup Final whereas the Hurricanes somehow needed to go 7. Still painful to this day.

[corta765]

3 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

 

What in the world are people talking about. McD fringe top 10? 

 

I mean its not really a slight

 

Reid-McVay are untouchable top 2 after that:

 

Kevin O'Connell-Kyle Shanahan-Matt Lafluer-John Harbuagh-Jim Harbaugh all have had tremendous success and are credited for their coaching being a difference maker in big games. 

 

No way I put McD above any of them. So now your talking Dan Campbell, Sean Payton, Nick Siriani, Mike Tomlin, Dan Quinn all as guys to fill out the last three spots. McD would rank someone in that group.

 

So yeah fringe top 10 feels about right depending on how you respect coaching what each guy does.

[LABILLBACKER]

23 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

I mean its not really a slight

 

Reid-McVay are untouchable top 2 after that:

 

Kevin O'Connell-Kyle Shanahan-Matt Lafluer-John Harbuagh-Jim Harbaugh all have had tremendous success and are credited for their coaching being a difference maker in big games. 

 

No way I put McD above any of them. So now your talking Dan Campbell, Sean Payton, Nick Siriani, Mike Tomlin, Dan Quinn all as guys to fill out the last three spots. McD would rank someone in that group.

 

So yeah fringe top 10 feels about right depending on how you respect coaching what each guy does.

I'd rank him 13th behind all those guys.  He's a better HR administrator than he is a game day coach.

[DeltaDigital]

On 1/29/2025 at 9:31 PM, T.E. said:

The 13 Seconds game was probably the most cowardly coaching moment in NFL history.

 

He wanted the ball kicked out of the endzone because he was terrified of a miracle return. He allowed Mahomes to hit Kelce over the middle for two uncontested big gains in exchange for not giving up a big play to Hill. He conceded the long FG attempt and was just praying that Butker missed it.

 

The fact that some people watched that and thought to themselves "There's a guy who will win a Super Bowl if we give him enough chances" is beyond me. It's never going to happen, folks.

100%. nobody want's to have that conversation. Unless we get an 85 bears type defense, and even if they did... he'd still find a way to screw Allen out of yet another ring. 

[Success]

Gotta say - it bums me out that I can't watch replays of that game.

 

I can't even remember many of the plays now - just that it was the most exciting game I think I've seen.  But I just can't go near it.

 

[GerstAusGosheim]

On 1/30/2025 at 8:54 AM, JohnNord said:

LOL first off Brady is not a rookie OC.  He had over year of experience in Carolina.

 

LOL first off...my post was about Dorsey. I figured my reference to taking over Allen/Diggs in their prime and putting up 10 points against the Bengals in the 2022-23 season would have made that crystal clear. But I see now that responding with "The first two of those three playoff games..." would have been a better choice.  

[st pete gogolak]

On 1/30/2025 at 9:21 AM, Just Jack said:

Did someone say 13 seconds?

 

I'm just gonna keep posting this anytime someone brings up that game....

 

Several factors contributed to the loss

 

1) 13 seconds

2) they had all three time outs left

3) they had Patrick Mahomes, Travis Kelce and Tyreek Hill

4) some Bills players and coaches were already celebrating on the sidelines like the game was over

5) they only needed a FG to tie and go to OT.

Yes, exactly!!! You couldn’t just kick it to the end zone, give them the ball on the 25, and play Charmin soft defense with 15 - 29 yard cushions.  They would have trotted Butker out to try a 60 yarder and he would have had a decent chance to make it (he did the following year under similar circumstances).  That means that they needed 32 yards in two plays with the whole field in play. Hardly insurmountable.  Instead they went all the way to the 32. Even if we were up by four, they would have had a shot at the end zone without a Hail Mary.  Face it. They were petrified of Hill and it looked like they were playing for a tie. 

[GerstAusGosheim]

On 1/31/2025 at 12:50 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

I'll never be able to convince the stubborn McD supporters to actually see what's right in front of their face.  It's pointless....

 

It's like an abusive relationship. If we lose to Andy again next season in the playoffs for the 5th consecutive time, they will still want Sean back.

[CircleTheWagons99]

as stated in the "Defense giving up HISTORICAL PPG in the Playoffs" McD should have been let go after 13 seconds. 

[nedboy7]

PTSD is a terrible thing. Good news is there is help.